Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

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“I am Sisyphus”

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#119296
Feb 23, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
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You should not speak about a subject that you are 100% clueless about.

In other words HTS should be a mute.
HTS

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#119297
Feb 23, 2013
 
MADRONE wrote:
<quoted text>
Lacking knowledge of a predetermined result, how would an ordered sequence differ from a random sequence? They are both sequences.
You validate my point. A belief in ToE requires denial of order and complexity. I suppose that you reject the second law or thermodynamics, founded on mathematical concepts of order and complexity.
HTS

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#119298
Feb 23, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not established mathematically that probability barriers exist all you have done is flap your face and look like a fool.
Anyone who thinks he can advance a scientific theory with disregard for mathematical probability is not a scientist, but a con man.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#119299
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Please logically explain your contradiction of a self evident fact. The making of bold unsubstantiated declarations does not qualify as science.
All sequences have a length (duration) and specific sequence.

"ak;hlegoiaoioieupoehqilw fva" is a sequence, it has a length and is comprised of a finite set of symbols, this is information.

"You are an arrogant, ignorant pompous ass!" is a sequence, it also has a length and is comprised of a finite set of symbols, this is also information, but it is also decipherable in English, is accurate and therefore more useful.
HTS

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#119300
Feb 23, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
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You have gone straight for How's That for Stupid mode today.
No, no one ever has raised a successful probability argument against evolution. I pointed out the fatal flaw in that idiotic one that you mentioned earlier today.
You should not lie HTS, if you are a Christian it is a breaking of the 9th Commandment.
Probability barriers are categorically ignored, not answered. In the end, the old "argument from incredulity" card is conveniently pulled out, and the skeptic of evolution is ridiculed for not having faith in a theory that cannot be defended with scientific explanations.
Why do you continually end your posts with bigoted religious comments? As I've said dozens of times, evolution cannot be defended without references to religion. The more you get nailed to the wall, the more cheap and inflammatory your rhetoric becomes.

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#119301
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Your paradigm relies on the unfounded belief that infinitely large numbers of possible pathways to functionality exist. What is your scientific evidence for that assumption?
Who said anything about infinitely large numbers of possible pathways? A wide spectrum of possible directions at any time yes, but not infinite. Look at all the variations of life in the sea, all from a common ancestor. Lots of them didn't work out in the long run, but left evidence in the fossil record.

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#119302
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Patently false statement. Macroevolution requires mutations resulting the creation of new genes. In dog breeding, no new genes were created. You need a refresher in Biology 101.
Incorrect, it is genetic differences (genes) that account for the different sizes of dogs, their shape and often their abilities. Some dogs have genes that other dogs don't.

You simply don't know what you are talking about again.
Mugwump

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#119303
Feb 23, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
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Do you hear yourself?
Hah, a broken clock is right twice a day.

I guess it was a wider point - Jimbo has shown various logical glitches over the last few days that suggest maybe (just maybe) he is a wind-up merchant.

This is what UC has maintained, he has always said Jimbo is playing with us and not paid any attention to his nonsense.

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#119304
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>I knew you'd say something like that. Convergence proves you are wrong. Think about it.

You will just believe any creotard nonsense they feed you.
Mugwump

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#119305
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Anyone who thinks he can advance a scientific theory with disregard for mathematical probability is not a scientist, but a con man.
So present you maths

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#119306
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You validate my point. A belief in ToE requires denial of order and complexity. I suppose that you reject the second law or thermodynamics, founded on mathematical concepts of order and complexity.
The second law of thermodynamics simply stated, says that the entropy of an isolated system never decreases, because isolated systems spontaneously evolve towards thermodynamic equilibrium—the state of maximum entropy.

The thing you are missing is the earth is not an isolated system and never has been.

Get it? Bet not! Dim Bulb!

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#119307
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Probability barriers are categorically ignored, not answered. In the end, the old "argument from incredulity" card is conveniently pulled out, and the skeptic of evolution is ridiculed for not having faith in a theory that cannot be defended with scientific explanations.
Why do you continually end your posts with bigoted religious comments? As I've said dozens of times, evolution cannot be defended without references to religion. The more you get nailed to the wall, the more cheap and inflammatory your rhetoric becomes.
No, as I said, to date ALL creatard probability arguments have been fatally flawed. No math is needed to debunk them. If you base an argument on a fatally flawed premise one only needs to point out the flaw and the argument is voided.

Here is an extreme version of a fatally flawed argument: Premise all yellow cars are Jaguars. Once someone say this it does not matter how many models of yellow Jaguars he can site the example of one yellow car that is not a Jaguar debunks the argument. No one has to do any more work than that. It does not matter if all of the cars you chose were yellow Jaguars, that is immaterial to the fact that other cars can be yellow too. The fact that your opening premise is incorrect makes all of the math that follows immaterial to the argument.

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#119308
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Anyone who thinks he can advance a scientific theory with disregard for mathematical probability is not a scientist, but a con man.
I have high regard for mathematical probabilities. But I also know you know nothing about them.

For example, you would state that a the probability of getting 250 head flips in a row with a coin would be 1:2^250, which would be correct for one person flipping one coin.

But if there were 2^1000 people each flipping a coin 250 times, the odds of one of those people getting 250 head flips is near certainty.

See how that works? Bet not! Dim bulb!

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#119309
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You need to define "complex"
No. YOU are the one who said life is too complex to be caused by natural processes. You seem to be claiming that you understand the limits of what can naturally occur.

I maintain that "complex" is a relative term, depending on what you are comparing something to. Iron is very complex. Iron marks the limit of what medium stars can naturally produce. But iron is simple compared to gold, which only naturally occurs in a supernova star.(All the gold on earth came from the remnants of a supernova star.)
HTS

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#119310
Feb 23, 2013
 
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Who said anything about infinitely large numbers of possible pathways? A wide spectrum of possible directions at any time yes, but not infinite. Look at all the variations of life in the sea, all from a common ancestor. Lots of them didn't work out in the long run, but left evidence in the fossil record.
You can't argue evolution by making evolutionary assumptions. You have no proof that all life in the sea shares common descent.
HTS

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#119311
Feb 23, 2013
 
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
No. YOU are the one who said life is too complex to be caused by natural processes. You seem to be claiming that you understand the limits of what can naturally occur.
I maintain that "complex" is a relative term, depending on what you are comparing something to. Iron is very complex. Iron marks the limit of what medium stars can naturally produce. But iron is simple compared to gold, which only naturally occurs in a supernova star.(All the gold on earth came from the remnants of a supernova star.)
In biological systems, complexity can be defined as a system with multiple interacting and integrated components, all contributing to functionality.
One way or another

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#119312
Feb 23, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I have high regard for mathematical probabilities. But I also know you know nothing about them.
For example, you would state that a the probability of getting 250 head flips in a row with a coin would be 1:2^250, which would be correct for one person flipping one coin.
But if there were 2^1000 people each flipping a coin 250 times, the odds of one of those people getting 250 head flips is near certainty.
See how that works? Bet not! Dim bulb!
You're a complete moron, there's not a chance in hell of anyone getting 250 head flips in a row you moron. It's impossible.

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#119313
Feb 23, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
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Not true! He was home schooled and self taught. His marks were excellent!!
His mom graded on the curve. He got by with a C average.
HTS

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#119314
Feb 23, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I have high regard for mathematical probabilities. But I also know you know nothing about them.
For example, you would state that a the probability of getting 250 head flips in a row with a coin would be 1:2^250, which would be correct for one person flipping one coin.
But if there were 2^1000 people each flipping a coin 250 times, the odds of one of those people getting 250 head flips is near certainty.
See how that works? Bet not! Dim bulb!
Evolution doesn't have anywhere near the numbers that you are eluding to, regardless of the hundreds of millions of years that you imagine. There are only about 10^80 atoms in the visible universe. It is literally impossible for anyone to flip a coin and achieve 250 heads in a row, even if you factor in billions of people on billions of planets in billions of galaxies for billions of years.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#119315
Feb 23, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> Evolution has been repeatedly debunked through scientific proofs. It is, for starters, mathematically impossible. The need for you to always bring up religion in an attitutude of mockery attests to the shallowness of your thinking.

i believe that gravity is also mathematically impossible (slightly less impossible since the discovery of the higgs, but still impossible).

It still exists as does evolution.

The fact that you actually believe that evolution has been "debunked through scientific proofs" is a real testament to how gullible people can be when they want to be.

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