Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 176,162

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#119080 Feb 22, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You are profoundly dishonest. You have categorically excluded all quotes I presesnt by accusing me of "quote mining". Likewise, all scientific references I post are not considered because you believe I got them off of creationist websites. You constantly introduce irrelevant distractions such as Collins being a Christian. It is obvious that you have no regard for scientific principles whatsoever, but try to justify your worldview by what you naively consider "science" which in reality is hand selected propaganda.
Well, maybe if you stopped using claims and arguments that tend to only appear on creationist websites, we'd stop saying that you do that. I don't suppose you think it's OUR fault that you've been doing that, do you?
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#119081 Feb 22, 2013
Gillette wrote:
If you get a virus in one of your cells, it copies its DNA into your DNA in order to make more copies of itself.
If that happens in a blood cell, then that one cell has the DNA insert.
..........
That ONLY happens when a virus gets into a sperm or egg which goes on to produce a living being.
From then on, anyone born to that lineage will also have the same retroviral insert in their DNA.
So, the fact that ALL humans have the same retroviral DNA inserts means that ALL humans share a common ancestor who had those same inserts.
**Truncated for space**

Viral infected cells are destroyed by T-cells
Or there is apoptosis

A viral infected embryo will not undergo embryogenesis

Besides lysogenic to lytic is an easy conversion for viruses and an embryo would be an easy kill

Besides, about 85-90% of these ERV's, HERVS, or whatever you wish to call 'em, have been shown by VALID science to be about 85-90% promoter and enhancer elements

Similarly, in relation to pseudogenes, I quote from GENCODE

"Analysis of transcriptomic and proteomic data is also revealing pseudogenes that are potentially expressed. The GENCODE reference set aids such analysis since it is the only gene set to contain comprehensively manually annotated pseudogenes to the same level as protein and noncoding genes. We currently predict a total of around 10,000 pseudogenes within the human genome. Recent publications highlight the implications of pseudogenes as regulators of gene expression (Han et al. 2011) and specifically a role in tumor biology (Poliseno et al. 2010), and thus we will have to rethink the classification of pseudogenes as nonfunctional entities on the genome."

__________
Harrow J, et al GENCODE: the reference human genome annotation for The ENCODE Project.
Genome Res. 2012 Sep;22(9):1760-74. doi: 10.1101/gr.135350.111. PubMed PMID: 22955987; PubMed Central PMCID: PMC3431492.

__________

There is no explanation for how unrelated ERV’s in unrelated species have ‘created’ the same gene--> convergent evolution

“ERVWE1/Synctin-1 and ERVFRDE1/Syncytin-2 are specific to primates and thus do not exist in other placentae. However, this apparent endogenous retrovirus hihacking for placentation use is not restricted tot he primates. Indeed two unique endogenous envelope genes of retroviral origin have been found in the mouse, i.e. Syncytin-A and –B … Altogether the date strongly argue for convergent evolution of endogenous retroviral envelopes to serve for placentation in mammals.”
http://atlasgeneticsoncology.org/Genes/ERVWE1...

And here:

“We demonstrate that both the human and rodent neuronal apoptosis inhibitory protein (NAIP) genes, involved in preventing cell death, use different ERV sequences to drive gene expression. Moreover, in each of the primate and rodent lineages, two separate ERVs contribute to NAIP gene expression. This repeated ERV recruitment by NAIP genes throughout evolution is very unlikely to have occurred by chance. We offer a number of potential explanations, including the intriguing possibility that it may be advantageous for anti-cell death genes like NAIP to use ERVs to control their expression. These results support the view that not all retroviral remnants in our genome are simply junk DNA.”
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerende...

Essential gene regulators:

“We also present evidence that the functional TF binding sites of the human b3GAL-T5 LTR promoter were present in the original consensus sequence for this class of LTRs. Upon similar analysis of other ERV sequences, we have concluded that this evolutionary history is shared by certain other LTR gene promoters, and may be a general phenomenon.”
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...
c&_acct=C000050221&_ve rsion=1&_urlVersion=0& _userid=10&md5=19c2ea074be c5e7313b36ce1630e38a8

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#119082 Feb 22, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> No, my logical scientific deduction leads me to that belief. What observational science can you point to to suggest that DNA can form without intelligence?
Define "logical." If "fingers in ears and yelling LALALALALALA" is what you think "logical" is (which, based on your posts, isn't terribly inaccurate), you don't know what logical means. That, and about a couple dozen other terms.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#119083 Feb 22, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
Define "logical." If "fingers in ears and yelling LALALALALALA" is what you think "logical" is (which, based on your posts, isn't terribly inaccurate), you don't know what logical means. That, and about a couple dozen other terms.
How are you going with your study of the recurrent laryngeal nerve?
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#119084 Feb 22, 2013
Elohim wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry. You have me confused with someone else. I have no interest in your god or any other of the thousands of gods you and your ilk have created or the last several millennia.
Why call yourself "The Gods" then?
You clearly have a passing interest in God to have selected that moniker

...And a Hebrew word, no less

Hilarious!

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#119085 Feb 22, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> You need to seriously think about what you are saying. Jesus was the greatest human being who ever lived, and His life and teachings have formed the foundation of morality of every civilized nation for centuries. For you to sit there and arrogantly hurl blasphemous insults only reveals your shallowness.
Can you show some evidence that the Jesus character of christianity is not just a rehash of the previous Roman god, Mithra? If you say that Mithra was just a figment of people's imagination, would you be hurling a blasphemous insult?

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#119086 Feb 22, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Harsh but true, no sweetener for you.
Gosh, now I'm a poet.
Ach du liebe ....meine Güte!

The harshness!

These evolutionists!

No mercy

Just ignorance and empty promises

When will it end....when??
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

#119087 Feb 22, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Then this does not support your claims that evolution is false and it is dishonest of you to claim otherwise. Of course you are unable to reference him anyway since you don't even believe in the scientific method he uses in the first place. Thanks again for another find demonstration of your hypocrisy.
No, Don, no more dishonest than my quoting you saying life begets life and that God diddit with with Jewish magic....

You jest...I know...but the truth of your statements is not invalidated by your utter confusion about whether God exists

Secondly, there is no point providing SubDud with any references

He only reads Stuttering Pigeons, with the occasional foray into Panda's bum

But for you, a zany evolutionary geneticist with out there ideas:

http://shapiro.bsd.uchicago.edu/Shapiro2009.A...

A pdf, no less


----------
"One criterion propounded to distinguish informational DNA is whether it is transcribed into RNA. Employing this criterion, the evidence for functionality ----OF ALL---of all regions of the genome has recently been extended by a detailed investigation of 1% of the human genome.

22
This Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences study has indicated that---VIRTUALLY ALL---- virtually all DNA in the genome, most of which does not encode protein, is transcribed from one or both strands.

So the central dogma-based notion that the genome can be functionally discriminated into transcribed (informational, coding) and nontranscribed (junk) regions appears to be invalid. There are other reasons for discounting the notion that only protein-coding DNA contains biologically meaningful information."

----------
ENCODE Project Consortium. 2007. Identi&#64257;cation and analysis of functional elements in 1% of the human genome by the ENCODE pilot project. Nature 447: 799–816.

And see

Harrow J, et al
GENCODE: the reference human genome annotation for The ENCODE Project. Genome Res. 2012 Sep;22(9):1760-74. doi: 10.1101/gr.135350.111. PubMed PMID: 22955987; PubMed
Central PMCID: PMC3431492.
One way or another

United States

#119088 Feb 22, 2013
The word natural, means, naturally occurring, like sun shine, rain, snow, heat from the sun, light from the sun and such.

Selection, means to choose, which is at odds with natural. Science has twisted the words and their meanings, but hey, that's just the normal deceit in evolution.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#119089 Feb 22, 2013
One way or another wrote:
The word natural, means, naturally occurring, like sun shine, rain, snow, heat from the sun, light from the sun and such.
Selection, means to choose, which is at odds with natural. Science has twisted the words and their meanings, but hey, that's just the normal deceit in evolution.
Edgar
One way or another

United States

#119090 Feb 22, 2013
The gov propaganda machine is moving full force on PBS and NPR. It won't matter for long, because the gov has created the demise of this gov or the fall of this nation.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#119091 Feb 22, 2013
Poor Rusty, he has delusions of adequacy again. It seems he likes to pull a Maz now and then too. Like Maz he will find an article with keywords that are hopeful to him and then he posts it as if he has accomplished something.

Rusty, you have shown time after time that you don't understand the few noncreatard articles that you link.

Worse yet you have admitted to denying almost all science. Even science as recent as Newton's mechanics go against your idiotic creatard beliefs.

All you have been able to do is to try to insult people by copying what is said about you. Unfortunately since others do not make the same grade school mistakes that you do those insults do not apply.

ignorance is a mighty fortress for Rusty.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#119092 Feb 22, 2013
One way or another wrote:
The gov propaganda machine is moving full force on PBS and NPR. It won't matter for long, because the gov has created the demise of this gov or the fall of this nation.
Allan
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#119093 Feb 22, 2013
One way or another wrote:
......because the gov has created the demise of this gov ......
POE

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#119094 Feb 22, 2013
Rusty, why are you still linking to the earliest articles that tell of Project ENCODE instead of the most recent ones? They overstated their progress and the amount of the genome that was functional early on. Many scientific studies do that. You can't judge their work until all of it is in.

They were hopeful of high amounts of the genome being useful. That was not the case.
One way or another

United States

#119095 Feb 22, 2013
Lets do this a million more times.
Mugwump

Bradford, UK

#119096 Feb 22, 2013
One way or another wrote:
Lets do this a million more times.
Why not ?

Out of interest - when did you get into golf ? What's your handicap - never played myself but interested in views of someone who does play - can appreciate the outdoors element but always seemed like elongated pool game to me.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#119097 Feb 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
How am I wrong?


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Your assertion is, in fact, wrong.
IFF the question is evolution OR creation (dichotomy)
AND since evolution is an observed fact
THEN we can conclude that creation is incorrect.
I actually think it is a false dichotomy, but that is an issue to discuss with people who are not in the routine of denying reality.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#119098 Feb 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
You are trying to muddy the waters as usual
I made a CORRECT statement..
DNA is evidence for creation
The cell is evidence for creation
YOU said I was wrong
I said "how"?
Now with arms folded resolutely
I await an answer
It was wrong for a number of reasons.
1. It was not correct.
2. It was in error.
3. It is not supported by the data.
4. It is not supported by science.
5. It is not supported by observation.
6. It is not supported by reason.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#119099 Feb 22, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Just to please you?

Consider it a rite of passage into adulthood.

Maybe we can save it till you grow up.


Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Please say something that makes sense and does not sound like a crybaby little child.
Leaving out philosophy, religion and wild opinions that are unsupported with data would be a good start.

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