Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 | Posted by: Cash | Full story: www.scientificblogging.com

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."
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“I am Sisyphus”

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#117019
Feb 12, 2013
 
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
What would you accept as evidence of design? Specifically the things I mentioned? What criteria fails? What passes?

How about something that does not fail the test of falsification?

Remember IC (Irreducible complexity)? That would have been evidence of design, but every suggestion of IC failed. Serious IDers (Yes, I know that is an oxymoron) don't bring up IC anymore because they got crushed badly.

Also, does it past basic scientific method issues?

Is it testable?
Can the tests be reproducible?
Is if falsifiable (but not falsified)?
Is it measurable (empirical)?
Can it be formulated?
Is it objective?
Is it parsimonious (within reason)?
And (this is key) can you make successful predictions!?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#117020
Feb 12, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>The existence of specified complexity is self evident proof of a designer. Why don't you demand proof that DNA can self organize? We're is your scientific evidence that such a "force" exists?
Viruses are "non-living" organic matter that interact with living DNA. There ya go!!!

“I am Sisyphus”

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#117021
Feb 12, 2013
 
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Biology is not an entertaining magic show. The ATP synthase motor can be observed and analyzed and disected and studied as can the DNA molecule. Now answer the damn question.

You miss the point. Criss Angel's show can also be observed, analyzed, dissected and studied. And when you do so the magic is lost. In just the same way religious based (and biased) pseudoscience can be demystified.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#117022
Feb 12, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>The existence of specified complexity is self evident proof of a designer. Why don't you demand proof that DNA can self organize? We're is your scientific evidence that such a "force" exists?
Where is this proof demonstrated? That is quite a claim. Please show this proof that "The existence of specified complexity is self evident proof of a designer." Please note that to have such a proof you will also have to produce this designer. Otherwise, you've got nothing ... again.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#117023
Feb 12, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>The existence of specified complexity is self evident proof of a designer. Why don't you demand proof that DNA can self organize? We're is your scientific evidence that such a "force" exists?

Since "complexity" is a relative term that has no absolute meaning (like tall or heavy or hot) ones perception that it is present does not mean anything and is not proof of anything.

DNA self organizes every day. It is called "chemistry". I think you referring how it formed originally (hard to say as your language is not very specific). As to proof of DNA's natural origin we know the the parts that make it up (nucleotides) form naturally. And the things that form nucleotides also form naturally. Even RNA (an apparent DNA precursor) has been shown to be naturally forming.

I hope that answers your question, but it will likely just tick you off that the answer is that obvious.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#117024
Feb 12, 2013
 

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HTS wrote:
<quoted text>If you were intellectually honest, you would acknowledge that science cannot explain ANY aspect of the origin of species. All you have are imaginative conjectures. Your magic formula is:
Mutations + natural selection + time = any complexity. That hypothesis has never been proven... Not even one micro-step.

This is all false. All you need to do is look this stuff up. The fact that you won't indicates that you have lost faith in your own religion. You don't even seem to know the mechanisms of evolution (you have 2 of them, where are the rest).

The rest of your post is your usual collection of fallacies,(straw-man, Ad hominem, Argument from Incredulity,....).
Godlust

Kansas City, MO

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#117025
Feb 12, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>The existence of specified complexity is self evident proof of a designer. Why don't you demand proof that DNA can self organize? We're is your scientific evidence that such a "force" exists?
Lets make this as simple as humanly possible......On one side is creation and the other side is evolution both are unanimously false, without question. Human thought of today is no different than humans 1000 years ago. Stuck in a mind rut, sinking hopelessly into an eternity of unbelieveable brainwashing. Only two wrong choices and one right one........Advanced Aliens engineered the human animal and all life on earth. Proof....about as much proof as God exist.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

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#117026
Feb 12, 2013
 
Godlust wrote:
<quoted text>Lets make this as simple as humanly possible......On one side is creation and the other side is evolution both are unanimously false, without question. Human thought of today is no different than humans 1000 years ago. Stuck in a mind rut, sinking hopelessly into an eternity of unbelieveable brainwashing. Only two wrong choices and one right one........Advanced Aliens engineered the human animal and all life on earth. Proof....about as much proof as God exist.
Who made the aliens?
One way or another

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#117027
Feb 12, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Who made the aliens?
If he had a brain, he might have asked himself that question. Oh well.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

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#117028
Feb 12, 2013
 
Godlust wrote:
<quoted text>Lets make this as simple as humanly possible......On one side is creation and the other side is evolution both are unanimously false, without question. Human thought of today is no different than humans 1000 years ago. Stuck in a mind rut, sinking hopelessly into an eternity of unbelieveable brainwashing. Only two wrong choices and one right one........Advanced Aliens engineered the human animal and all life on earth. Proof....about as much proof as God exist.
http://www.myfacewhen.net/view/1186-alrighty-...
HTS

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#117029
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Since "complexity" is a relative term that has no absolute meaning (like tall or heavy or hot) ones perception that it is present does not mean anything and is not proof of anything.
DNA self organizes every day. It is called "chemistry". I think you referring how it formed originally (hard to say as your language is not very specific). As to proof of DNA's natural origin we know the the parts that make it up (nucleotides) form naturally. And the things that form nucleotides also form naturally. Even RNA (an apparent DNA precursor) has been shown to be naturally forming.
I hope that answers your question, but it will likely just tick you off that the answer is that obvious.
DNA does not "self organize" every day. It always requires pre-existing DNA. As far as nucleotides forming naturally... What does that prove? I'm asking you for a logical explanation as to how DNA could form on its own. A racemic hodgepodge of nucleotides is not a genetic code. How did the first genetic information capable of supporting self replicating life come into existence? As far as RNA being a DNA precursor... That's raw conjecture. You have only dodged the question.
HTS

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#117030
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Ooogah Boogah wrote:
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Viruses are "non-living" organic matter that interact with living DNA. There ya go!!!
Your base ignorance of biology is embarrassing.
HTS

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#117031
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
This is all false. All you need to do is look this stuff up. The fact that you won't indicates that you have lost faith in your own religion. You don't even seem to know the mechanisms of evolution (you have 2 of them, where are the rest).
The rest of your post is your usual collection of fallacies,(straw-man, Ad hominem, Argument from Incredulity,....).
I've heard all of your debunked recycled arguments. Your incessant parroting of the same stale rhetoric is pointless. You can continue to live in the dark ages and dutifully cling to the primitive thinking of nineteenth century biologists and ignore the facts of molecular biology. Every proposed mechanism of evolutionary transmutation is biologically impossible. If you think humans and apes are related, then try selective breeding on a chimpanzee and see how far you can get. If that's too big of a challenge, try bacteria. You can culture trillions of trillions of organisms in short periods of time. No one has ever produced any evolution.
HTS

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#117032
Feb 12, 2013
 

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Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Since "complexity" is a relative term that has no absolute meaning (like tall or heavy or hot) ones perception that it is present does not mean anything and is not proof of anything.
.
Typical atheist BS. Your relativistic worldview requires you to pervert mathematical concepts or order and complexity to justify your religion.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

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#117033
Feb 12, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>Your base ignorance of biology is embarrassing.
I nailed it and you can't stand it.
HTS

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#117034
Feb 12, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I nailed it and you can't stand it.
What does a virus have to do with self organization of DNA? I'm only trying to spare you further embarrassment.
Russell

Adelaide, Australia

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#117035
Feb 12, 2013
 
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I nailed it and you can't stand it.
Nailing it would mean something
But as you have nothing.......

I suggest....kindly ...
That you think things through a little

Viruses require living cells in which to replicate

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#117036
Feb 12, 2013
 
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>I've heard all of your debunked recycled arguments. Your incessant parroting of the same stale rhetoric is pointless. You can continue to live in the dark ages and dutifully cling to the primitive thinking of nineteenth century biologists and ignore the facts of molecular biology. Every proposed mechanism of evolutionary transmutation is biologically impossible. If you think humans and apes are related, then try selective breeding on a chimpanzee and see how far you can get. If that's too big of a challenge, try bacteria. You can culture trillions of trillions of organisms in short periods of time. No one has ever produced any evolution.
And once again HTS shows that he does not understand evolution.

HTS, it is almost impossible to debunk a theory that you do not understand.
Russell

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#117037
Feb 12, 2013
 
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
And once again HTS shows that he does not understand evolution.
HTS, it is almost impossible to debunk a theory that you do not understand.
‘The theory becomes more complicated as it now must account for unexpected and seemingly contradictory findings.’

---Cornelius Hunter

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#117038
Feb 12, 2013
 
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
‘The theory becomes more complicated as it now must account for unexpected and seemingly contradictory findings.’
---Cornelius Hunter
Ahh, quote mining a creatard who does not understand the theory of evolution. I guess that is a bit of an improvement.

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