Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 176,187

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story
Mugwump

Manchester, UK

#116521 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, regurgitated text.....wonderful. Gods, bones and comets...really. Dogen what about the Hubble telescope, you know the pictures it captured of a slice of deep space....they concluded there are to many galaxies to count....What are your thoughts, disregarding regurgitated text, your thoughts. Enlighten us.
To quote Douglas Adams again

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space

What's your point ?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116522 Feb 9, 2013
Russell wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes
In a Utopian paradise it works just like that
**Cuckoo**
Very naive
In the real world of 'science'...data are routinely discarded if they do not conform to --materialistic bigotry-- long ages

As a science "insider" who has seen the scientific method at work I have to disagree. Sometimes unsuccessful tests are not published, but the scientific method is hard at work.

First, if you are doing research at an institution you have to submit a (rational) proposal and justify your research based on what is already known in the field. That does not mean you cannot do some creative stuff, especially if there is not an established body of literature on the area you want to study. So, before even beginning research you have to have a research idea, you have to have studied the existing literature, you have to have submitted a proposal (and probably needed to do something similar to get enough funding for your project).

Most of the criticism of research ideas is not the ideas themselves. It is the details of how everything is going to be done, how the data is to be collected, how you will prove (or disprove) your thesis, etc.

All this is before you lift a finger to actually conduct the research.

Once you are done and have analyzed the data (using techniques you had to determine BEFORE you collected the data... so no hanky panky), written the paper, THEN you get the board to pre-peer review it (it is not called this, but it is pretty accurate), THEN you can submit your paper to an appropriate journal (after you rewrite it to match the journals guidelines). They will probably send it back and suggest rewriting it (or reject it outright). Most of the rewrite involves fixing wording, making tables more readable, etc. NOT changing the content or results of the paper. Yadda, yadda, yadda,... So you resubmit it and they give it another peer review and decide to publish it or not. If your study had a positive result you ARE more likely to get published than if you were unable to prove anything.

Now, I need to interject at this point that the Journal is in business to PUBLISH and they WANT to publish cutting edge stuff. If the thesis is out there but the research is well done then that is the stuff they WANT to put in their journal. They don't serve their own purpose if they turn away well done, cutting edge research! That is what gets/keeps their circulation up and that is the stuff people will pay for reprints of.

So then your paper gets published. You are on top of the world.... for awhile. Then the NEXT level of peer review hits. Letters and emails about your research get published in the journal or get sent to you directly. You may be asked to respond to these. You may NEED to respond to these! If your research stirs enough pots then you might get others replicating your research, using your research as a starting point for further research and your research has become part of the body of research on that particular subject. If it is not outright refuted, of course.

Often we will quote a research article (and both sides do this) out of the context of the rest of the peer review process and follow-up studies. A professional in that subfield, of course, knows the body of research and is mindful of not only the results of a study, but what studies came before and after it and what their results were.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#116523 Feb 9, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Restaurant at the end of the galaxy ?(Apologies to the late D Adams for the paraphrase)
I'll book a table
I'm looking forward to a nice Ameglian Major Cow steak.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116524 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Wow, regurgitated text.....wonderful. Gods, bones and comets...really. Dogen what about the Hubble telescope, you know the pictures it captured of a slice of deep space....they concluded there are to many galaxies to count....What are your thoughts, disregarding regurgitated text, your thoughts. Enlighten us.

What about it?

They did a deep field with the Kepler, too.

My thoughts are.....

the universe is a big place.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116525 Feb 9, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
To quote Douglas Adams again
Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space
What's your point ?

Gotta love DA. He had an answer for everything.

The answer, to the great question, of life, the universe and everything is,...... is,.......

http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Answer...

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116526 Feb 9, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm looking forward to a nice Ameglian Major Cow steak.

I prefer to dine on Perfectly Normal Beasts.
Alien Outlaw

Kansas City, MO

#116527 Feb 9, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
What about it?
They did a deep field with the Kepler, too.
My thoughts are.....
the universe is a big place.
Ok, more to the point. Is earth the only planet in the entire known universe with life(earthlings, microbial or alien types....advanced alien types). Please, no text regurgitation.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#116528 Feb 9, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Gotta love DA. He had an answer for everything.
The answer, to the great question, of life, the universe and everything is,...... is,.......
http://uncyclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/The_Answer...
God promised that good obedient loving wives could be found in all corners of the Earth. Then he created the Earth in the shape of a sphere and laughed and laughed and laughed!!

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#116529 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, more to the point. Is earth the only planet in the entire known universe with life(earthlings, microbial or alien types....advanced alien types). Please, no text regurgitation.
Right, we "know" so little of the universe, it is like taking a glass of water from the ocean, looking in it, seeing nothing, then concluding there is no life in the ocean.

Does being a dumb butt come naturally? Or do you have to work at it?

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#116530 Feb 9, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I prefer to dine on Perfectly Normal Beasts.
It does seem cruel to eat life that doesn't want to be eaten.
Mugwump

Manchester, UK

#116531 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, more to the point. Is earth the only planet in the entire known universe with life(earthlings, microbial or alien types....advanced alien types). Please, no text regurgitation.
It seems unlikely that given the size of the universe that earth is the only planet in the u inverse that habours life.

Intelligent life is obviously less commons

Intelligent life that is 'close'' enough to be detected in the short time-frame we have had the technology - again less so.

AGAIN, what is your point ? Or are you charging by the word?
Alien Outlaw

Kansas City, MO

#116532 Feb 9, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems unlikely that given the size of the universe that earth is the only planet in the u inverse that habours life.
Intelligent life is obviously less commons
Intelligent life that is 'close'' enough to be detected in the short time-frame we have had the technology - again less so.
AGAIN, what is your point ? Or are you charging by the word?
Just pickin you brain, you seem to use it. Ok, lets focus on technologies that are possible, like manipulating brain activity. Lets say controlling the part of the brain that controls sleep. Could that technology be available to humans today? And, what would the average human think of them using that technology on the public?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116533 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, more to the point. Is earth the only planet in the entire known universe with life(earthlings, microbial or alien types....advanced alien types). Please, no text regurgitation.

Probably not.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116534 Feb 9, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
God promised that good obedient loving wives could be found in all corners of the Earth. Then he created the Earth in the shape of a sphere and laughed and laughed and laughed!!

Best proof of Gods existence is hearing laughter when you expect life to be fair.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#116535 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Just pickin you brain, you seem to use it. Ok, lets focus on technologies that are possible, like manipulating brain activity. Lets say controlling the part of the brain that controls sleep. Could that technology be available to humans today? And, what would the average human think of them using that technology on the public?
You mean like religion?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#116536 Feb 9, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
It does seem cruel to eat life that doesn't want to be eaten.

Yes, but it seems creepy to meet the meat.

Mugwump

Manchester, UK

#116537 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Just pickin you brain, you seem to use it. Ok, lets focus on technologies that are possible, like manipulating brain activity. Lets say controlling the part of the brain that controls sleep. Could that technology be available to humans today? And, what would the average human think of them using that technology on the public?
Personally I think the brain is simply another organ, and if technology was available to 'control' it then it would go through the same moral debate as does with many technologies that effect 'free will'

Such advances of course are already used in the medical community to control some of the more extreme mental illnesses that afflict certain people.

But let me fast-track your argument - you are presumably suggesting that such technology is already being employed by aliens on the human race already.

So care to provide a coherent argument to support this - would just save a lot of time.

Anyway have to go - Zork has his probing rod out.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#116538 Feb 9, 2013
Alien Outlaw wrote:
<quoted text>Humans have explored only 1% of the deep oceans. What in the world makes you think humans are ready for deep space exploration. Read about how human technology is not capable or adequate enough for contact.Wait, its not in text books ........cant read about it, cant comprehend it. Regurgitate all the info and stats known to man......good luck.
I never said we are ready for deep space exploration. There may or may not be a technology somewhere in the universe more advanced than ours.
Alien Outlaw

Kansas City, MO

#116539 Feb 9, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
Personally I think the brain is simply another organ, and if technology was available to 'control' it then it would go through the same moral debate as does with many technologies that effect 'free will'
Such advances of course are already used in the medical community to control some of the more extreme mental illnesses that afflict certain people.
But let me fast-track your argument - you are presumably suggesting that such technology is already being employed by aliens on the human race already.
So care to provide a coherent argument to support this - would just save a lot of time.
Anyway have to go - Zork has his probing rod out.
You were doing just fine right up to the last statement. Again, SETI was established for what purpose?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#116540 Feb 9, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
God promised that good obedient loving wives could be found in all corners of the Earth. Then he created the Earth in the shape of a sphere and laughed and laughed and laughed!!
I like that!

Gonna borrow that line.

Thanks!

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