Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 174,565

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story
HTS

South Lake Tahoe, CA

#115737 Feb 1, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Vaccines need to stay a step ahead of evolution.
We would have licked AIDs 15 years ago if the dang thing did not keep evolving.
You have NO IDEA what you're talking about.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115738 Feb 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
You just contradicted yourself. Bigtime.


Surely you can point out the contradiction then.


Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
By definition, science produces theories to explain what is observed, and make predictions about what will be observed in given conditions etc.
Evolution is a theory that both explains what is observed and has made innumerable successful predictions about what should be observed.
Therefore it is science, and very successful science as well.
On the other hand, your Biblical Literalism makes predictions which continually fail in the fossil record, in biology in geology, astronomy, and physics.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115739 Feb 1, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
WHAT a load of crap. "true atheists" are as dogmatically loaded as their adversaries and just as full of shit. You disgust me.
Sorry, I forgot to turn on the humor button.
HTS

South Lake Tahoe, CA

#115740 Feb 1, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Because of evolutionary based morals that are in all of us.
Atheism equals no morality. The philosophical consequences of a belief in evolution can be encapsulated in the following statement by William B Provine, Ph.D., a renowned historian of science and professor at Cornell University:
"Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent."*


*(Provine W.B., "Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life." Abstract of Prof. William B. Provine's 1998 "Darwin Day address, "Darwin Day" website, University of Tennessee Knoxville TN, 1998

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115741 Feb 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
More wrong assumptions from you. I don't get FOX. I don't have cable.

I suspect you have access to something even more extreme and wacko than FoxNews. WND perhaps?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#115742 Feb 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "real science" is not even science - it's history. You study history. What you always promote are theories about how things may have happened in the past. By definition, that is not science. We should focus on the present, the observable, testable, repeatable present. Everything else is history or even religion, to be honest.
So, there should be no guilty verdicts in murder cases. Got it.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115743 Feb 1, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>What "evidence" is there that a whale "naturally" evolved a migratory instinct? You don't even understand its mechanism. What makes you so certain that processes that no one understands came into existence without intelligent design?
So, you must be prepared to say what COULD happen without intelligent design, yes? Could water boil? Could fire burn? Could chemical reactions happen? You must know.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115744 Feb 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Still holds true. Note that it also applies to creationists. The only difference is we honestly recognize it as such while evolutionists deny it.

lol. Thanks for that. I am doing reports all day today and needed a chuckle.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115745 Feb 1, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I should have included a picture of myself with my tongue stuck in my cheek. Or perhaps I should have said that all true left handed people are peaceful by nature.
I am a firm believer in the idea that people are pretty much the same anywhere you find them. Where religion, or any set of social values takes hold, the majority will follow. I also think that there are some social conditions that tend to be a driver for social actions anywhere you go. Like for instance, poverty, ignorance and disease can make a very strong contribution to spreading intolerant social values.

My rant was more of a take off of your post rather than an argument.

Affluence can affluence can also make a strong contribution to spreading intolerant social values.

Again, a take off.
Urban Cowboy

Arlington, VA

#115746 Feb 1, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
You can watch them on YouTube as well. You can also read their blog posts, or read the blog of one of their fans. But you said things that originated with specifically two of their talking heads ... well talking isn't very accurate, more like screaming and ranting insane nonsense about conspiracies and the Illuminati and crap like that.
I don't read it. I work 60-70 hours a week and spend nights and weekends on my hobbies playing guitar and science. Occasionally I get to go flying or scuba diving or boating. That's about all I have time for.
tegranostro

Manchester, UK

#115747 Feb 1, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> Atheism equals no morality.
Atheism means everyone has the responsibility to decide upon their own morality, instead of delegating that responsibility to a book written by men that lived long ago in a time that bares almost no resemblance to the one in which we now live.
Urban Cowboy

Arlington, VA

#115748 Feb 1, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text>You have NO IDEA what you're talking about.
I stopped responding to Dogen a long time ago. Him and a guy named Dutchy are the nuttiest of the bunch. Chimney is the only one with any brains but he is also one of the most radical.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#115749 Feb 1, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
So, there should be no guilty verdicts in murder cases. Got it.
Using the tools of operational science is a good thing and has nothing to do with evolution's attempt to interpret history.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#115750 Feb 1, 2013
HTS wrote:
<quoted text> Atheism equals no morality. The philosophical consequences of a belief in evolution can be encapsulated in the following statement by William B Provine, Ph.D., a renowned historian of science and professor at Cornell University:
"Naturalistic evolution has clear consequences that Charles Darwin understood perfectly. 1) No gods worth having exist; 2) no life after death exists; 3) no ultimate foundation for ethics exists; 4) no ultimate meaning in life exists; and 5) human free will is nonexistent."*
*(Provine W.B., "Evolution: Free will and punishment and meaning in life." Abstract of Prof. William B. Provine's 1998 "Darwin Day address, "Darwin Day" website, University of Tennessee Knoxville TN, 1998
Just because someone is a professor at a Ivy League school does not mean that he is correct. He could be a kook. Let's look at his foolish claims>

1. No god worth having exist. Hmm, he could be right there. So what? Is that supposed to be some kind of loss? Compare no god existing to the terribly vain and evilly egotistical god of the Christian Bible. Is he worth worshiping? I don't think so. Yet that is what your hellish after life is supposed to consist of.

2. no life after death exist. Yup, that is probably the case. And Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny are not real either. Time to grow up.

3. No ultimate foundation for ethics exist. Now that is clearly false. Do you seriously need to be told what is right and wrong? Actually Christianity is very attractive to many psychopaths so maybe for them the answer is yes.

4. No ultimate meaning for life exists. Again, how did this guy even get a degree. If you need to go to a god for your meaning in life it shows a very arrested moral development.

5. Human free will is non-existent. WTF!?!? How did he come to that idiotic conclusion. In fact many Christians, Calvinists for example, do not believe in free will. And they can put up a good argument for it. This guy can't.

Sorry, like most people you creatards like to go to for support, there is no "there" there.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#115751 Feb 1, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Even better.
Have you seen Jesse Ventura's Conspiracy Theory?
Best comedy on the tube ever.
lol Not yet, but Alex Jones is hilarious. I think that may be the one UC got his last ones from.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#115752 Feb 1, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
I suspect you have access to something even more extreme and wacko than FoxNews. WND perhaps?
Erm ... you may want to hold that thought:


http://www.youtube.com/watch...

It's insane what people will put on television these days ... and more insane what viewers add to it.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115753 Feb 1, 2013
01Justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
:) I think you're continuing to confuse being religious with being unenlightened. Just because one is religious does not make them unenlightened. Nor does being non-religious automatically label you as enlightened. The assumption that you are somehow on a higher level of enlightenment than any other human being on the planet is arrogant at best. After all, humility is the beginning of wisdom. I feel it's important for a person to know what they believe and why they believe it. Being challenged is simply a part of life. A part of growth. I'm perfectly okay with that. In fact, I welcome it. How else can I expect to grow? I too have friends who come from various backgrounds and religions. Respect for my fellow man has never been a problem for me. Religious views aside. I'd also like to thank you for bringing to my attention the things I need to learn. I trust that you'll sleep well.:)
While I am convinced that some form of morality is important for the survival of any society, I am also convinced that there is no moral framework that applies to all human society. Murder in one society is justice in another; privilege in one society is corruption in another. Etc.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115754 Feb 1, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have some sympathy for the militant atheists who are railing against dogmatically driven stupidity. But they are misguided.
I also have some sympathy for religious people who are riling against the arrogant abandonment of all traditional standards by ideologically driven militant theists. Militant atheism can be as dogmatic as the religions it opposes.
But for my part, I dislike dogmatism itself and regard rational empirical skepticism as its antidote.
Yes.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#115755 Feb 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Using the tools of operational science is a good thing and has nothing to do with evolution's attempt to interpret history.
Operational science. Cute. Isn't it odd that only people who intentionally misrepresent ACTUAL REALITY-BASED science use the term "operational science?"

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115756 Feb 1, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Your "real science" is not even science - it's history. You study history. What you always promote are theories about how things may have happened in the past. By definition, that is not science. We should focus on the present, the observable, testable, repeatable present. Everything else is history or even religion, to be honest.
If the past is not science, neither is the future.

The ToE provides evidence of what has happened. That is science. But the ToE does not claim to predict the evolutionary paths that will occur in the future for any species. You will get no one to bite on that strawman.

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