Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178700 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Mugwump

UK

#115432 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
, the organism was found as it always is found..
What exactly would you expect ?

You are seeming to insist you need the infamous crocoduck - if so you are kicking 7 shades of s&@t out of a strawman not evolution.

Evolution is a gradual process, and every form is transitional - but you already know this is what the theory states don't you?

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Arlington, VA

#115433 Jan 29, 2013
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, if finches are like virtually every other critter on the planet, yes there is. It goes like this:
1. As we go back through the fossil record, we see creatures diverging from today's bit by bit. There is nothing quite like a modern cat or tiger in the record of a million years ago, but there are very similar creatures.
2. At the same time, as we go back, we see the forms contemporary with each other converging.
So, for example, we see cats converging on two ancestral types (felix and panthera), then even earlier those two converging on one.
By the time we go back to miacids, this whole line is converging with dogs.
That's the fossil evidence UC, a pattern repeated across all the species we can find in the record. And just for good measure, the evidence from pseudogenes, ubiquitous proteins, and ERVs all independently concur with that. Divergence from species of today, and convergence of different species / genera / orders in the past.
Do you realise that even Darwin had no idea that the birds on Galapagos were actually finches until his taxonomist friend in London years later pointed out their deeper anatomical similarities to a close species of finch on the mainland?
The record indicates that any particular species has always been the same species. From whatever layer you find a fossil of it to the time it went extinct or until present day. This simple fact negates all your dream-weaving stories. And then you have actual observable science. Still there is no clear-cut example of any organism changing into something different than what it is. Only variations on a common theme. Common design by a common designer is what is obviously the case. There are several generic design concepts that have been slightly modified for variety. There is no evidence at all that any particular specific design changed its basic form just due to the passage of time. Plus you have all the genetic controls for error correction and maintenance to prevent this from happening. Plus you have genetic entropy and accumulating deleteriuos mutations working against change.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115434 Jan 29, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You may be identifying some of the causes of delusional disorder.
I suppose we might be splitting hairs on the concept of what constitutes a delusion. But either way, intensive institutional treatment is Jim's best hope for recovery.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#115435 Jan 29, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>I suppose we might be splitting hairs on the concept of what constitutes a delusion. But either way, intensive institutional treatment is Jim's best hope for recovery.
Splitting hairs? lol Ya don't say!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115436 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I am the one being objective here! Yes, we observe diversity within species. No, evolution doesn't explain it; in fact, diversity exists in spite of evolution! In every single case, the organism was found as it always is found. You'd think this would be a clue.

You are the one being objective here???????

You caused me to spew my Diet Coke all over the place.

Not one single organism is unchanged over evolutionary time period. Even "living fossils" are significantly different from their ancestors in the fossil record.

You'd think this would be a clue.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#115437 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
The record indicates that any particular species has always been the same species.
Yep! Except for the vast record that indicates evolution.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
From whatever layer you find a fossil of it to the time it went extinct or until present day. This simple fact negates all your dream-weaving stories.
And we also find precursors and post, uh, cursors, which are similar, but show progression of differences, that just so happen to look like evolution.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
And then you have actual observable science.
Yes, you're right. We do. You don't.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Still there is no clear-cut example of any organism changing into something different than what it is.
Correct. But there are plenty of examples of organisms which are preceded by similar but different organisms, and followed by similar but different organisms. And when we put them in a row we observe clear evolutionary progression.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Only variations on a common theme. Common design by a common designer is what is obviously the case.


Why, obviously. The unknown unobservable designer that didit via unknown unobservable mechanisms and left an unknown unobservable trace.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
There are several generic design concepts that have been slightly modified for variety.
Sure. Cars, planes, ships...
Urban Cowboy wrote:
There is no evidence at all that any particular specific design
There is no evidence of design, period.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
changed its basic form just due to the passage of time.
Plenty of transitionals which can only be ignored for theological reasons.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Plus you have all the genetic controls for error correction and maintenance to prevent this from happening.
Which don't actually prevent it from happening.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Plus you have genetic entropy and accumulating deleteriuos mutations working against change.
Wait, so you're saying that change prevents change? Well done! Oh, you also left out the parts about natural selection and beneficial mutations which overcome these problems as is observed in all species with currently increasing populations. This PARTICULARLY applies to humans.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115438 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
The record indicates that any particular species has always been the same species. From whatever layer you find a fossil of it to the time it went extinct or until present day. This simple fact negates all your dream-weaving stories.

This is delusional. Absolutely in conflict with the observed evidence. It is just denial followed up with a clear case of projection.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text> And then you have actual observable science. Still there is no clear-cut example of any organism changing into something different than what it is.

Sorry, the fossil and DNA records are replete with this.

Not one organism from the Cambrian still exists today.

Not one unchanged organism from the Cretaceous still exists today.

That is a 100% refutation of creationism and ID.

I don't need to discuss genetic entropy since it has been refuted.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115439 Jan 29, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I suppose we might be splitting hairs on the concept of what constitutes a delusion. But either way, intensive institutional treatment is Jim's best hope for recovery.

He has no hope of recovery.
One way or another

United States

#115440 Jan 29, 2013
Well children, you constantly play your same games, because you have nothing of your own. Tsk tsk children. You play your stupid childish games and I'll play mine. Oops, mine includes new and real science. Let us know when you evo children get a brain.
One way or another

United States

#115441 Jan 29, 2013
Coming depression aftershock

Ya know how I've always been projecting doom and gloom for our economy, well children, its gonna get much worse. The housing market will keep falling, the stock market will crash again and we will suffer another depression, much much deeper than the last Great Depression.

It will happen within 1 to 5 years.

http://w3.newsmax.com/a/aftershockb/video47a....
LowellGuy

United States

#115442 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
The record indicates that any particular species has always been the same species. From whatever layer you find a fossil of it to the time it went extinct or until present day. This simple fact negates all your dream-weaving stories. And then you have actual observable science. Still there is no clear-cut example of any organism changing into something different than what it is. Only variations on a common theme. Common design by a common designer is what is obviously the case. There are several generic design concepts that have been slightly modified for variety. There is no evidence at all that any particular specific design changed its basic form just due to the passage of time. Plus you have all the genetic controls for error correction and maintenance to prevent this from happening. Plus you have genetic entropy and accumulating deleteriuos mutations working against change.
Finches are not a species.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#115443 Jan 29, 2013
One way or another wrote:
Coming depression aftershock

Ya know how I've always been projecting doom and gloom for our economy, well children, its gonna get much worse. The housing market will keep falling, the stock market will crash again and we will suffer another depression, much much deeper than the last Great Depression.

It will happen within 1 to 5 years.

http://w3.newsmax.com/a/aftershockb/video47a....
Is it time again for you to take your meds?

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#115444 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
The record indicates that any particular species has always been the same species. From whatever layer you find a fossil of it to the time it went extinct or until present day. This simple fact negates all your dream-weaving stories.
Then it's odd that no species existing in the fossil record exists now and no species that exists now appears in the fossil record (unless you're using some goofy Creationist definition of "species").
Urban Cowboy wrote:
And then you have actual observable science. Still there is no clear-cut example of any organism changing into something different than what it is. Only variations on a common theme.
Organisms don't evolve individually and the variations within populations are the raw material that feeds the Evolutionary process.
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Common design by a common designer is what is obviously the case. There are several generic design concepts that have been slightly modified for variety. There is no evidence at all that any particular specific design changed its basic form just due to the passage of time. Plus you have all the genetic controls for error correction and maintenance to prevent this from happening. Plus you have genetic entropy and accumulating deleteriuos mutations working against change.
If you have "all the genetic controls for error correction and maintenance to prevent this from happening", how can the Genome be continually degraded by "genetic entropy and accumulating deleteriuos mutations"?
One way or another

United States

#115445 Jan 29, 2013
If you children can refute what I write, I'll stop writing it. You keep lying, claiming you already did, but that's all ya got.
The science of running by Jim Ryan.
Yes, I used to run 10 miles a day for about 2 years. For whatever reason, I started counting a cadence in my head, that matched the cadence of my footfalls and my breathing, which synced body and mind, helping me to get into a trance like state, allowing me to run mile after mile without stress and the last mile I could run almost flat out.
I know they teach different things today, but give my method a try, I think you'll like it. By the way, keep your eyes focused just in front of you, on the ground.
The cadence in running I used to use was, "one two three one", " one two three two", "one two three three", and keep going.
It's a 4 count breathing in and then a 4 count breathing out.
Happy running.
One way or another

United States

#115446 Jan 29, 2013
Come on children, get a brain.
Spin electron rate earth gravity
Original work
By Jim Ryan
Supported by evidence
EDEE!
As everything is connected to everything and everyone, so too must earths spin and rotational rates, as well as electromagnetism and gravity.
From my perspective at this time, the reason science does not understand electromagnetisim or gravity, is because science cannot measure spin rate in electrons, so as to compare with the spin rate of the
Electrons in our bodies-- as a reason we do not feel the spinning of the earth and more.
The possibility exists that electrons spin correlates to either the earths spin rate on its axis, the rotational rate around our barycenter or possibly a combination.
If science were to use earths spin rate first, in doing test within the electromagnetic field, it may reveal much more. Do the electrons in our bodies spin at 1000 miles per hour and is that the reason we don't feel the earth spinning as it does?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#115447 Jan 29, 2013
One way or another wrote:
Coming depression aftershock
Ya know how I've always been projecting doom and gloom for our economy, well children, its gonna get much worse. The housing market will keep falling, the stock market will crash again and we will suffer another depression, much much deeper than the last Great Depression.
It will happen within 1 to 5 years.
http://w3.newsmax.com/a/aftershockb/video47a....

Gullible people believe anything.
Mugwump

Manchester, UK

#115448 Jan 29, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Gullible people believe anything.
Have you noticed how he has all but given up with actually engaging in discussion now ?

I have asked him 4 times (my limit) to post what he thinks is his best 'new science' and we can discuss it rationally - the fact that he just goes into 'spamalot' mode suggests that maybe he knows he can't defend any of it.

In some ways this is maybe a pointer that he is'nt completly 'gone' and has some self awareness

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#115449 Jan 29, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>Gullible people believe anything.
true dat

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#115450 Jan 29, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
I am the one being objective here! Yes, we observe diversity within species. No, evolution doesn't explain it; in fact, diversity exists in spite of evolution! In every single case, the organism was found as it always is found. You'd think this would be a clue.
Hey, Urban, how you doing.

I see you are still arguing that magic is the best explanation of the diversity of life on earth. Though it is an attractive hypothesis for its simplemindedness I just don't find it to be a very satisfying explanation.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#115451 Jan 29, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You are the one being objective here???????
You caused me to spew my Diet Coke all over the place.
Not one single organism is unchanged over evolutionary time period. Even "living fossils" are significantly different from their ancestors in the fossil record.
You'd think this would be a clue.
Be patient. UC is taking classes in biology. He hasn't yet gotten to the chapter on reproduction, where it explains that every generation of each species produces near (but not exactly the same) copies of the parent generation. At some point it will hit him that, OMG, macroevolution is just lots and lots and lots of microevolution.

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