Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178661 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#113409 Jan 3, 2013
obesity wrote:
It's seems like this thread started out as one thing and then evolved into many other things. I thought that would make some of you very happy, but I guess not.
It had to evolve into many other things, otherwise this thread would have been extinct long ago. I'm ok with that.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#113410 Jan 3, 2013
obesity wrote:
Some of you are to smart for your own good..you can talk a good talk and recite everything you read in books and online yet most of you probably can't check your tire pressure, change your oil, pump your own gas, start a lawn mower..I bet none of you have any basic survival skills..when crap hits the fan in this world you will be the first to go down, crying in your closet gripping your laptops, calculators, and Darwin books. While talking about human origins is fun and the biggest mystery ever, it really doesn't matter. I don't see tigers, bears, or any other animal worried about it..they just want to eat, sleep and play a little bit. I will always wonder why we are more complex and different than all other animals..what's the point?
I don't think we are more complex and different than all other animals. True, our brains have more conceptual ability, but each of the many varieties of life brings something to the table that others cannot do. I was always amazed at my cat's ability of total spacial awareness, every step more perfect than the best human ballerina. And birds in flight. And the power, grace and nobility of lions.

Our conceptual ability gives us the power to command other life, but that in itself does not make us more complex or even superior to other living things.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#113411 Jan 3, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
Macroevolution. You may not like the word. But it does separate fact from fantasy. Tell you what. Answer this question. Has a change from one kind of organsim into another different kind of organism ever been observed? If not, then it hasn't been observed. We haven't observed macroevolution. And if we haven't observed it then it's not even in the realm of science. It's not even science. It's an ideology. Or a religion. And a strong one at that.
If you are looking for a fish giving birth to a frog, that would be a strawman argument. But to say that frogs have some fish ancestry, that would be pointing out that microevolution is how species eventually branch out and become different organisms. Each generation of each species is in transition.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#113412 Jan 3, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, let's see about that. Fair is fair. But first, do agree that macroevolution has not been observed?
I'd agree that the creationist version of macroevolution is absurd.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#113413 Jan 3, 2013
obesity wrote:
<quoted text>
if science of human origins were full of absolute truth, there would be no arguing in the scientific community.
There is NO argument in the science community. The only argument is with you guys...the creotards

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#113414 Jan 3, 2013
obesity wrote:
Some of you are to smart for your own good..you can talk a good talk and recite everything you read in books and online yet most of you probably can't check your tire pressure, change your oil, pump your own gas, start a lawn mower..I bet none of you have any basic survival skills..when crap hits the fan in this world you will be the first to go down, crying in your closet gripping your laptops, calculators, and Darwin books. While talking about human origins is fun and the biggest mystery ever, it really doesn't matter. I don't see tigers, bears, or any other animal worried about it..they just want to eat, sleep and play a little bit. I will always wonder why we are more complex and different than all other animals..what's the point?
While I’m sure a lot of people are like that, but I happen to know a few freethinkers and I believe they are above average in many ‘skills’.

I myself can not only pump gas and change oil; I can replace whole engines and all the external parts as well, and do brakes jobs both drum and disk. I can also fly a private plane, and I am an accredited scuba diver. I grew up camping with my family, and can navigate in the woods quite easily, and make fire without matches or lighter.

Oh, and my first computer was the Vic 20 when it first came out in the 80’s, and I have a pretty big library…the better to learn things.

Not trying to brag here…just showing how wrong you can be if you judge with not enough data.

“Don't get me started”

Level 1

Since: Jul 09

Minneapolis

#113415 Jan 3, 2013
obesity wrote:
<quoted text>
Its should be taught in a history type class
its does make people think, just like reading all the books we had to read in english class that weren't factual. its also makes people think outside of the box and in shades of gray rather than black and white.
Evolution does mean change.
Human and apes may have a common ancestor, but we did not come from apes.
if science of human origins were full of absolute truth, there would be no arguing in the scientific community.
But what IS it that could or should be taught in a history type class about aliens?

What is it that can be taught?

I'm not saying that speculation is a bad thing. But speculation should not be confused with actual information.

Here's a funny thing. I'm sure you would also see the humor in it. Several years ago when I was a supervisor overseeing the work of a clerical crew, someone turned on the radio to one of those call-in shows. The guest was a catholic priest who claimed to be an expert on pergatory. Most folks listened just for laughs, but a few took it very seriously. People called in for an hour and a half asking questions about what pergatory was like. The funny thing was that the priest kept giving answers as if he actually knew something about it, as if it were something real that he could have studied.

Can you see, we have the same problem with aliens?

“What trolls???”

Level 1

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#113416 Jan 3, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
There is NO argument in the science community. The only argument is with you guys...the creotards
They haven't evolved. That's why they don't believe in evolution.

Their intelligence certainly hasn't evolved.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#113417 Jan 3, 2013
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
If you are looking for a fish giving birth to a frog, that would be a strawman argument. But to say that frogs have some fish ancestry, that would be pointing out that microevolution is how species eventually branch out and become different organisms. Each generation of each species is in transition.
No, I wouldn't expect that. But for example, the Lenski long-term experiments with E.coli has seen over 50,000 generations now and no trace of them evolving into anything other than varieties of E.coli. If these were chimp generations, you would have "macroevolution" observed with chimps to humans by now. But nothing at all with E.coli or plants or any organsim. All I am saying is, you've got this theory of evolution that is impossible to observe which then logically takes it outside the confines of the scientific method. You may be theorizing about history with fossils and genes but cannot observe it happening.
Mugwump

UK

#113418 Jan 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wouldn't expect that. But for example, the Lenski long-term experiments with E.coli has seen over 50,000 generations now and no trace of them evolving into anything other than varieties of E.coli. If these were chimp generations, you would have "macroevolution" observed with chimps to humans by now. But nothing at all with E.coli or plants or any organsim. All I am saying is, you've got this theory of evolution that is impossible to observe which then logically takes it outside the confines of the scientific method. You may be theorizing about history with fossils and genes but cannot observe it happening.
And to re-iterate the point, this means creation science is (by your logic) outside the realms of real science.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#113419 Jan 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I wouldn't expect that. But for example, the Lenski long-term experiments with E.coli has seen over 50,000 generations now and no trace of them evolving into anything other than varieties of E.coli. If these were chimp generations, you would have "macroevolution" observed with chimps to humans by now. But nothing at all with E.coli or plants or any organsim. All I am saying is, you've got this theory of evolution that is impossible to observe which then logically takes it outside the confines of the scientific method. You may be theorizing about history with fossils and genes but cannot observe it happening.
You just start ranting and never check your facts.
e.coli has gone through a lot of generations (which provides resolution, not MORE evolution). Chimps evolve no faster nor slower than ecoli. Where you picked up this mythassumptions I have no idea, only that it does not come from established evolution literature. You are what you read and apparently you only read crap.
Further evolution is even more observable in the genetic record. Speciation (= macroevolution).
So, macroevolution IS observable (vs. your lies to the contrary). Since it is observable we developed a theory to explain it. We call the theory that explains the observed facts of evolution 'The Theory of Evolution'. Look it up some time.

“That's just MY opinion...”

Since: Jan 07

Location hidden

#113420 Jan 4, 2013
Dogen wrote:
You just start ranting and never check your facts.
e.coli has gone through a lot of generations (which provides resolution, not MORE evolution). Chimps evolve no faster nor slower than ecoli. Where you picked up this mythassumptions I have no idea, only that it does not come from established evolution literature. You are what you read and apparently you only read crap.
Further evolution is even more observable in the genetic record. Speciation (= macroevolution).
So, macroevolution IS observable (vs. your lies to the contrary). Since it is observable we developed a theory to explain it. We call the theory that explains the observed facts of evolution 'The Theory of Evolution'. Look it up some time.
I watched the grass in front of my house for over an hour today and was unable to observe any growth. According to Cowboy Observability Theory, I can now throw away my lawn mower. Yay!

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#113421 Jan 4, 2013
obesity wrote:
Actually what a wet dream produces does make a difference in life.
Drink whatever you want

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#113422 Jan 4, 2013
obesity wrote:
<quoted text>
Did I ever say anything about god? Don't assume I believe in god. Science just can't very many questions..I will check out your link, but I'm sure it's the same bs like all the other links I've read on this thread...if not ALL I ask can be provided that must mean science has holes and many unanswered questions.
As far as wet dreams go..the naughty librarian turns me on, but that's as far as nerdiness goes for me...I'm sure you have turned many geeks heads in your life.
I don’t know, did you?

You certainly implied that goddidt and after all, I can only base by assessment of you on the content of your posts.

There ya go, instantly “bs-ing” something before you ever looked at it you are co narrow minded you must be a godbot

FYI, The perimeter institute is one of the foremost the theoretical research establishments in the world in the subjects that, from your posts, you claim interest in but immediately BS when it is offered to you. Well done for displaying your personality so well.

We can also assume from your reply that you have no answer and yet expect other to have the answers you want to hear.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#113423 Jan 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
They are turning their heads because they're frightened.
More guesswork and hatred from the pussywhipped godbot, well done

You spite is not doing your credibility any good whatsoever.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#113424 Jan 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
More guesswork and hatred from the pussywhipped godbot, well done
You spite is not doing your credibility any good whatsoever.
Piss off witch. If you're not butt-ugly on the outside then you sure as HELL are on the inside.

And please learn the meaning of "pussywhipped", ok? Language-impaired as well I see....

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Fort Lauderdale, FL

#113425 Jan 4, 2013
Mugwump wrote:
<quoted text>
And to re-iterate the point, this means creation science is (by your logic) outside the realms of real science.
The part about creation, the fall, the flood, babel; yes, I agree, we cannot observe that. Just like you can't observe the big bang or abiogenesis or macroevolution. There should not be a double standard. We are also going to agree regarding science when it is observable and testable. But we also need to agree on the weakness regarding historical, unobservable theories.

Tell ya what, I'll even throw you a bone: I've been thinking that it may be possible that the Bible does have an error worked into it over the years based on entropy. How about that for full disclosure and honesty?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#113426 Jan 4, 2013
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Piss off witch. If you're not butt-ugly on the outside then you sure as HELL are on the inside.
And please learn the meaning of "pussywhipped", ok? Language-impaired as well I see....
Hey there’s a good christian, whassup? Am I getting to you?

Juts because I cannot abide a liar and just because I do not agree with your lying BS does not make me ugly, inside or out, it simple meant that I cannot abide liars and I do not agree with your lying BS.

Hey, I’m not the one with a god looking over my shoulder at the way you lie.

Honey, you were beaten, you were shown to be lying and all you can do now is hurl abuse, you look pretty pussywhipped to me

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

Hollywood, FL

#113427 Jan 4, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey there’s a good christian, whassup? Am I getting to you?
Juts because I cannot abide a liar and just because I do not agree with your lying BS does not make me ugly, inside or out, it simple meant that I cannot abide liars and I do not agree with your lying BS.
Hey, I’m not the one with a god looking over my shoulder at the way you lie.
Honey, you were beaten, you were shown to be lying and all you can do now is hurl abuse, you look pretty pussywhipped to me
I didn't lie. You did! And please look up pussywhipped you idiot.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#113428 Jan 4, 2013
obesity wrote:
<quoted text>
and Im Michael Jackson..if you are really 38 then you have the brain of a genius and the mentality of a 16 year old...you're very pale, have you ever had your vitamin D levels checked? the doctors say a lot of people are low in it these days and its making people very sick.
I get pale when I live in a city that gets almost zero sunlight. It's one of the many reasons I actually did not want to return to Western Washington, but meh, all my records were here.

As for your genius compliment, thank you, but I am not. I'm just a curious person who actually pays attention is all. I will not argue the mentality, I do claw at my youth trying to pull it back in like many others of my age group, the whole facing one's own mortality can cause that quite a bit. It's a psychological phenomenon we have come to fully understand, but we call it "mid life crisis," each has their own way of handling it, mine is embracing knowledge itself.

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