Should evolution be taught in high school?

[15th Dalai Lama]

Russell wrote:

Let's do some cosmology. The belief is that stars formed from clouds of gas that somehow clumped together. This is the early stages of the nebular hypothesis. It is true that gravity pulls gas molecules together, but gravity is relatively weak force, and it is much weaker than gas pressure which forces gas molecules apart. To illustrate, consider a can of compressed air. When the trigger is pulled, it opens a passage from outside the can to inside the can. So what happens when gas can travel freely? It comes out, because gas always disperses from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure.
Question: How much gas would you need inside the can to create such a strong gravitational force, tha then I pulled the trigger, gas would not come out the can? Instead, all the air in the room would get sucked into the can and anyone in the room would asphyxiate and die!
This is of course silly, but that's the kind of gas concentration you would need to form a gas cloud in space. The physical laws that govern the behavior of gas prevent it from staying at a higher pressure than it's surroundings, unless it is kept in a container of some kind, and there are no containers in space. Just ask the crew from star trek!
But, for the evolutionary model to work, magic must be invoked; just-so stories are generated and scientific laws ignored to avoid the obvious, that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens declare the glory of God (psalm 19:1)

Show us the math.

[Mugwump]

Russell wrote:

Let's do some cosmology. The belief is that stars formed from clouds of gas that somehow clumped together. This is the early stages of the nebular hypothesis. It is true that gravity pulls gas molecules together, but gravity is relatively weak force, and it is much weaker than gas pressure which forces gas molecules apart. To illustrate, consider a can of compressed air. When the trigger is pulled, it opens a passage from outside the can to inside the can. So what happens when gas can travel freely? It comes out, because gas always disperses from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure.
Question: How much gas would you need inside the can to create such a strong gravitational force, tha then I pulled the trigger, gas would not come out the can? Instead, all the air in the room would get sucked into the can and anyone in the room would asphyxiate and die!
This is of course silly, but that's the kind of gas concentration you would need to form a gas cloud in space. The physical laws that govern the behavior of gas prevent it from staying at a higher pressure than it's surroundings, unless it is kept in a container of some kind, and there are no containers in space. Just ask the crew from star trek!
But, for the evolutionary model to work, magic must be invoked; just-so stories are generated and scientific laws ignored to avoid the obvious, that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens declare the glory of God (psalm 19:1)

Want to explain what cosmology has to do with evolution?

And while you at it can you reference where abiogenesis states the first replicator coded for 100s of proteins.

Nope, thought not - why ARE creationists so UNWILLING to answer direct questions about their claims

??????????

[Kong_]

Russell wrote:

Let's do some cosmology. The belief is that stars formed from clouds of gas that somehow clumped together. This is the early stages of the nebular hypothesis. It is true that gravity pulls gas molecules together, but gravity is relatively weak force, and it is much weaker than gas pressure which forces gas molecules apart. To illustrate, consider a can of compressed air. When the trigger is pulled, it opens a passage from outside the can to inside the can. So what happens when gas can travel freely? It comes out, because gas always disperses from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure.
Question: How much gas would you need inside the can to create such a strong gravitational force, tha then I pulled the trigger, gas would not come out the can? Instead, all the air in the room would get sucked into the can and anyone in the room would asphyxiate and die!
This is of course silly, but that's the kind of gas concentration you would need to form a gas cloud in space. The physical laws that govern the behavior of gas prevent it from staying at a higher pressure than it's surroundings, unless it is kept in a container of some kind, and there are no containers in space. Just ask the crew from star trek!
But, for the evolutionary model to work, magic must be invoked; just-so stories are generated and scientific laws ignored to avoid the obvious, that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens declare the glory of God (psalm 19:1)

Dude...we can SEE and PHOTOGRAPH Nebula.

http://www.google.com/search...

[Dogen]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
Now you are searching for answers. I don't have them all but I do know that our sin led to the fall, and that he gave us free will. We were not made as robots.

Do you know "the fall" is not an expression used in the bible? It was a title added later to some versions of the translation to English.

Do you know the word "sin" was not used in that story?

Do you know that the word sin is not used until Genesis 31:1.

Do you know that 9 different words (in original texts) are translated as "sin"?

So, what you are relation is an interpretation about what the bible says and not what it 'literally' says.

[Dogen]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
No, the only group claiming magic is darwinists.

No magic. Just nature.

No magic poofing.

[Dogen]

Mugwump wrote:

<quoted text>
And UC ignores the important bit of my quote
'Its assertions are factually true in all the original autographs. It is the supreme authority in everything it teaches. Its authority is not limited to spiritual, religious, or redemptive themes but includes its assertions in such fields as history and science.'
He knows he is busted - and will dodge / post nonsense / post abuse - he is a bit like Jimbo in this respect - though at least UC knows he is bang to rights, even if he doesn't admit it.

Usually when he gets this flustered is when he disappears for a day or so.

[Dogen]

Russell wrote:

Let's do some cosmology. The belief is that stars formed from clouds of gas that somehow clumped together. This is the early stages of the nebular hypothesis. It is true that gravity pulls gas molecules together, but gravity is relatively weak force, and it is much weaker than gas pressure which forces gas molecules apart. To illustrate, consider a can of compressed air. When the trigger is pulled, it opens a passage from outside the can to inside the can. So what happens when gas can travel freely? It comes out, because gas always disperses from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure.
Question: How much gas would you need inside the can to create such a strong gravitational force, tha then I pulled the trigger, gas would not come out the can? Instead, all the air in the room would get sucked into the can and anyone in the room would asphyxiate and die!
This is of course silly, but that's the kind of gas concentration you would need to form a gas cloud in space. The physical laws that govern the behavior of gas prevent it from staying at a higher pressure than it's surroundings, unless it is kept in a container of some kind, and there are no containers in space. Just ask the crew from star trek!
But, for the evolutionary model to work, magic must be invoked; just-so stories are generated and scientific laws ignored to avoid the obvious, that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens declare the glory of God (psalm 19:1)

Another raving loon.

Why would planets have atmospheres?

Idiot.

[LowellGuy]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

Darwinists are so eaten up with hatred and bigotry that they actually try to make people think creationists use the Bible in place of science! How incredibly idiotic and dishonest.

Right. It's not that you use the Bible in place of science; it's that you require all science to adhere to the Bible. It's a subtle difference, I'll grant you that.

[LowellGuy]

Russell wrote:

Let's do some cosmology. The belief is that stars formed from clouds of gas that somehow clumped together. This is the early stages of the nebular hypothesis. It is true that gravity pulls gas molecules together, but gravity is relatively weak force, and it is much weaker than gas pressure which forces gas molecules apart. To illustrate, consider a can of compressed air. When the trigger is pulled, it opens a passage from outside the can to inside the can. So what happens when gas can travel freely? It comes out, because gas always disperses from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure.
Question: How much gas would you need inside the can to create such a strong gravitational force, tha then I pulled the trigger, gas would not come out the can? Instead, all the air in the room would get sucked into the can and anyone in the room would asphyxiate and die!
This is of course silly, but that's the kind of gas concentration you would need to form a gas cloud in space. The physical laws that govern the behavior of gas prevent it from staying at a higher pressure than it's surroundings, unless it is kept in a container of some kind, and there are no containers in space. Just ask the crew from star trek!
But, for the evolutionary model to work, magic must be invoked; just-so stories are generated and scientific laws ignored to avoid the obvious, that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens declare the glory of God (psalm 19:1)

I see, stars are impossible, therefore the theory of evolution is wrong, therefore God did it with magic. Thanks for playing.

[KittenKoder]

Russell wrote:

Let's do some cosmology. The belief is that stars formed from clouds of gas that somehow clumped together. This is the early stages of the nebular hypothesis. It is true that gravity pulls gas molecules together, but gravity is relatively weak force, and it is much weaker than gas pressure which forces gas molecules apart. To illustrate, consider a can of compressed air. When the trigger is pulled, it opens a passage from outside the can to inside the can. So what happens when gas can travel freely? It comes out, because gas always disperses from areas of high pressure to areas of low pressure.
Question: How much gas would you need inside the can to create such a strong gravitational force, tha then I pulled the trigger, gas would not come out the can? Instead, all the air in the room would get sucked into the can and anyone in the room would asphyxiate and die!
This is of course silly, but that's the kind of gas concentration you would need to form a gas cloud in space. The physical laws that govern the behavior of gas prevent it from staying at a higher pressure than it's surroundings, unless it is kept in a container of some kind, and there are no containers in space. Just ask the crew from star trek!
But, for the evolutionary model to work, magic must be invoked; just-so stories are generated and scientific laws ignored to avoid the obvious, that in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. The heavens declare the glory of God (psalm 19:1)

Why do you purposely avoid learning?

[15th Dalai Lama]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
Now you are searching for answers. I don't have them all but I do know that our sin led to the fall, and that he gave us free will. We were not made as robots.

Yeah, sure, Urbie. I can just see God up there scratching his bald head wondering if a three day old naked lady is going to be outsmarted by a fallen prince of angels.

[15th Dalai Lama]

Dogen wrote:

<quoted text>
Usually when he gets this flustered is when he disappears for a day or so.

I noticed that, too. Urbie's flailing.

[Subduction Zone]

Russell, why does gas expand?

Why would gas be attracted to itself?

Can you think of a planet, or two, or maybe even four that is practically all gas?

Now if a planet could hold itself together with just the gravitational force of gas why do you think that a much larger, heavier star could not?

[15th Dalai Lama]

Dogen wrote:

<quoted text>
Do you know "the fall" is not an expression used in the bible? It was a title added later to some versions of the translation to English.
Do you know the word "sin" was not used in that story?
Do you know that the word sin is not used until Genesis 31:1.
Do you know that 9 different words (in original texts) are translated as "sin"?
So, what you are relation is an interpretation about what the bible says and not what it 'literally' says.

Nine words translated as 'sin'? That sounds like King James Version which is really kind of a piss poor translation. Do you have any examples, chapter and verse? I've got a pretty good Bible here that actually translates words as what they mean.

[thewordofme]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
No, the only group claiming magic is darwinists.

Well let’s see about that. The Christian God made the universe and galaxies and planets and moons just by speaking a word or two and out of nothing....sounds like magic to me.

He created mankind from dirt and women-kind by pulling a rib from a man....sounds like magic to me.

He created a tree with fruit that magically gives the person eating the fruit tremendous insights about the world and its inhabitants. He also made a tree that gives people that eat of it infinite life....that sounds like magic to me.

He created a snake that walks on feet and can speak....that sounds like magic to me.

He creates a flood that covers the whole earth and uses more water than is actually on earth....sounds like magic to me.

He lets his favorite people walk into slavery for 400 years...not magic, just stupid, cruel, and heartless.

He subjects the Hebrews to the same 10 plagues that the Egyptians have to endure... wiping out the Egyptian civilization.…the plagues depended on magic

He parts the Red Sea and quick dries an area on the bottom so a million plus Hebrews can walk to the other side...Sounds like magic to me.

He tells the Hebrews that He *gives* them the land of Israel, BUT they have to militarily conquer it....not magic, just stupid.

He makes a virgin human woman pregnant without intercourse….sounds like magic to me.

He raises the dead Himself/Jesus from the grave after 3 days….sounds like magic to me.

Jesus raises Lazarus from the dead, multiplies bread and wine and turns water into wine cures leprosy without anti-biotics, and probably a few things I've forgot….sounds like magic to me.

When Jesus died on the cross somebody causes the earth to tremble, the sun to go dark and zombies to rise from the grave and terrorize people in town….sounds like magic to me.

Christianity, just like all other religions on earth depends on magic….something that has never been observed by anyone qualified to judge it. The ancient people that lived around the time of the early Hebrews and even in the time of Jesus believed in magic…hence they believed the crap the old rabbis and seers and the Bible tries to pass off on the gullible. They believed, but it has NEVER been shown to be real.

The Darwinists do NOT believe in magic…they believe in reality and reason, something the Godbots will never understand...it's beyond their capabilities.

[Psychology]

Dark matter!! Wooooooooooo

Lmao

[Chimney1]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
You are nuts! First of all, there is no evidence that any large authority of any type ever thought the earth was flat. This was and is a ridiculous myth. Any normal person would conclude the earth is spherical based on the observations I GAVE EARLIER. Any year you give for "Christians" stating otherwise would have had Royal Orbs and Globes in their studies existing at that same time! This is totally ridiculous on many levels!

No Urb, its your statements that are nuts.

The catholic church was certainly a large authority and tended to burn people at the stake for suggesting the Earth is a sphere. Even after that was established, they had Galileo under house arrest for his observations.

You are kidding yourself, as you always do when the facts are inconvenient.

There is nothing obvious from observation about a spherical earth. Mayans believed in a flat earth even though they were masters at predicting eclipses.

What you SEE when you look up is a waxing and waning moon. The hypothesis that this is caused by the earth shadowing the sun is abstract and was not obvious to any of the ancients until the Greeks. Even then - it was a calculation of natural philosophers not understood or known by the majority.

[Chimney1]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
No dummy. Framework is an underlying set of ideas, the context, the structure. It is not meant as the last word on details. Are you really this stupid?

Your creationist dogma is not so much a framework as a prison.

[Chimney1]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
As is obvious and recognized worldwide by all, nobody expects the Bible to be a technical math text. It is only you hateful, bigoted darwinists who try to perpetuate this falsehood because of your insecurities. How pathetic!

Likewise, nobody except you and a small band of pseudoscience nutcases expects it to be a geology, biology, astronomy, physics, palaeontology, archaeology, or medical text.

[Chimney1]

Urban Cowboy wrote:

<quoted text>
No, the only group claiming magic is darwinists.

Obviously false.

Every aspect of evolution is backed by known physical mechanisms. The Theory itself IS a proposed and testable physical mechanism to account for the change observed in the fossil record long before Darwin. Random natural variation and environmental selection. What is magic about these?

Even David Copperfield does not do REAL magic, just because YOU have not studied how he does his tricks!