Should evolution be taught in high school?

Feb 24, 2008 Full story: www.scientificblogging.com 176,193

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand." Full Story

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#104775 Oct 14, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
OK, suppose for a minute that's right, that E.coli has not changed in 102 million years. How many generations does that represent if E.coli replicates every 20 minutes? Do the math. Can't you see the absurdity in all of this?

No, they make an ideal species to work with. They can even freeze some of their results at times to have a time lapse look at the changes over time.

The results show changes over time as predicted. No only has the metabolization process had to change due to the environment but the size and shape of the bacteria have changed as well.

And the E.coli have begun to evolve faster.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#104777 Oct 15, 2012
Doesn't everyone hate to be spoken too as if they were too stupid to know when anyone is trying to run BS on them?

If so, do you think it's difficult to stress entities or make them eat things they aren't used to or even help them to gain in size and or shape, by simple manipulation of food water and more?

By would you let anyone speak to you in that manner? Do you want others to think you're an idiot as well?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104778 Oct 15, 2012

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104779 Oct 15, 2012
Oh, and for giggles, I found this nice summary of Ancient Egyptian medical comprehension:
http://www.indiana.edu/~ancmed/egypt.HTM

It's interesting how much information a Dark Age can make us lose.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#104780 Oct 15, 2012
Johny wrote:
<quoted text>
To get new systems (eyes, ears, heart, lungs, finger) you need many mutations - that is an obvious fact. You can look at the structure and connecting parts and it should be obvious. For example, the eye needs the lens, retina, vitreous humor, cornea, optic nerve, and all the smarts to read the information. How many mutations would it take to go from no eye to having an eye? The mutations leading to the changes in the brain alone would be large. How many new types of cells would be required? How about all the very precise mutations needed for the connecting structure? How about all the required blood vessels in the eye? They all have to be the right size and location. How about all the hidden scaffolding required in the construction of the eye? You see, the mutations need to be very precise or there will be no functioning system. So the real question is, "What is the probability of all these mutations coalescing together into one genome out of a population?" I think we CAN prove that the probability is VERY small.
There are many different eyes in the animal kingdom and many of them are missing some or most of the parts you mention. Can an eye function without a lens? Of course it can, and its still better than no eye. The simplest eyes of all are nothing more than light sensitive pigment on the skin. Refinement can be step wise all the way from that to a modern eye.

We can go from light sensitive pigment on skin to the formation of a slight depression giving a sense of directionality to that depression becoming deeper giving an almost pinhole effect (as per the Nautilus eye) to a protective transparent skin forming over the depression to that skin developing a bulge giving a rudimentary lens...continuous tiny refinements, each well with the reach of mutation and natural selection.

Dawkins' book "Climbing Mount Improbable" dealt with this back in the 80's. But, love him or hate him, all creationists manage to do is bash the man because they cannot fault his arguments...and they are not really "his" arguments anyway, merely the communication of mainstream evolution to the layperson. I recommend you read that book.

Other books not dealing with evolution directly but with self-organising systems, and the emerging sciences of complexity and chaos, will perhaps inform you that your thinking is missing the point.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#104781 Oct 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Doesn't everyone hate to be spoken too as if they were too stupid to know when anyone is trying to run BS on them?
If so, do you think it's difficult to stress entities or make them eat things they aren't used to or even help them to gain in size and or shape, by simple manipulation of food water and more?
By would you let anyone speak to you in that manner? Do you want others to think you're an idiot as well?
The fact that you do not even seem to understand how plate tectonics works after it being explained repeatedly, might give you a hint as to why people eventually speak to you as if you are stupid. Where did the 67,000 miles go??? DUH! you moron.
Urban Cowboy

Pompano Beach, FL

#104782 Oct 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy

Pompano Beach, FL

#104783 Oct 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact that I do not even seem to understand how plate tectonics works after it being explained repeatedly, might give you a hint as to why people eventually speak to me as if I am stupid. Where did the 67,000 miles go??? DUH! I'm such a moron.
Yes, you are.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#104784 Oct 15, 2012
Deceitful morons love to play games, because they have nothing else. Thanks for the chance to repeat the following.

Mid Atlantic mountains width

I told you children to be aware of a game of chess. I kept you looking in one place, making you feel comfortable and getting you to do exactly what you did, thanks.

Now now Evo children, ask yourselves, how wide are the mountains at the mid Atlantic ridge? They surely aren't 67,500 miles wide.
The width of the mountains should equal at least one quarter of the movement of those plates and science claims that in one million years, the plates lose approximately 15 miles, so if the earth is 4.5 billion years old and one million divided into 4.5 billion is 4500, then multiply 15times 4500, which equals 67,500 miles of lost plate. The width of the mountains at the mid atl ridge is minuscule, so please explain how that can be.

I exaggerated the first time , so I'm correcting it.

One more thing, with the mountain range at the mid Atlantic ridge solidly in place, tell us, how those 2 plates can possibly spread.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#104785 Oct 15, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
Oh, you missed the sarcasm, so I'll explain it for you. Darwin didn't finish school.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104786 Oct 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I know. But at least you tried!
Ah, you can't admit you were wrong so you return to the ad-homs. Nice, and excruciatingly predictable.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104787 Oct 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, you missed the sarcasm, so I'll explain it for you. Darwin didn't finish school.
This makes what sort of impact on his observations?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#104790 Oct 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are.
Lying by twisting other people's words is the best you can manage, you poor little thing.

Really, if you are going to behave this way, do not be surprised if people call you stupid.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#104791 Oct 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Deceitful morons love to play games, because they have nothing else. Thanks for the chance to repeat the following.
Mid Atlantic mountains width
I told you children to be aware of a game of chess. I kept you looking in one place, making you feel comfortable and getting you to do exactly what you did, thanks.
Now now Evo children, ask yourselves, how wide are the mountains at the mid Atlantic ridge? They surely aren't 67,500 miles wide.
The width of the mountains should equal at least one quarter of the movement of those plates and science claims that in one million years, the plates lose approximately 15 miles, so if the earth is 4.5 billion years old and one million divided into 4.5 billion is 4500, then multiply 15times 4500, which equals 67,500 miles of lost plate. The width of the mountains at the mid atl ridge is minuscule, so please explain how that can be.
I exaggerated the first time , so I'm correcting it.
One more thing, with the mountain range at the mid Atlantic ridge solidly in place, tell us, how those 2 plates can possibly spread.
The mid Atlantic ridge is where NEW crust is forming, not old crust accumulating. The plates are moving apart there, the Atlantic is widening, and lava is bubbling up and cooling to form new crust. At the centre line, the "seam" of the mid Atlantic ridge, is actually a huge valley, a rift, which is the line of split between the two major tectonic plates.

In other parts of the world, crust is "disappearing" through subduction. That is, it is forced under other parts of the crust and as well as buckling, causing mountain ranges such as the Himalayas to form and grow, some of the crust forced underneath heats up and melts, disappearing back into the mantle (the very hot layer beneath the crust).

Now do you understand why we would NOT expect 67,000 miles of crust to be piled up somewhere?????

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#104792 Oct 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, you are.
Is that really you, Urban Cowboy? Now you are reduced to twisting others' words and sticking a fatuously stupid response to your own lies?

Really, I thought only Jimbo stooped that low. My apologies to Jimbo.

On the other hand, it just goes to show what happens to a man's brain when he embraces stupidity and irrationality the way you have done. I guess "Jimbo" will be your final destination. I hope you are enjoying the mental equivalent of open-mouthed drooling, as this appears to be what you are reduced to.
Psychology

Hollywood, FL

#104793 Oct 15, 2012
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
The mid Atlantic ridge is where NEW crust is forming, not old crust accumulating. The plates are moving apart there, the Atlantic is widening, and lava is bubbling up and cooling to form new crust. At the centre line, the "seam" of the mid Atlantic ridge, is actually a huge valley, a rift, which is the line of split between the two major tectonic plates.
In other parts of the world, crust is "disappearing" through subduction. That is, it is forced under other parts of the crust and as well as buckling, causing mountain ranges such as the Himalayas to form and grow, some of the crust forced underneath heats up and melts, disappearing back into the mantle (the very hot layer beneath the crust).
Now do you understand why we would NOT expect 67,000 miles of crust to be piled up somewhere?????
Then tell us, how do those two plates move when the mountain range anchors them in place?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#104794 Oct 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Doesn't everyone hate to be spoken too as if they were too stupid to know when anyone is trying to run BS on them?
If so, do you think it's difficult to stress entities or make them eat things they aren't used to or even help them to gain in size and or shape, by simple manipulation of food water and more?
By would you let anyone speak to you in that manner? Do you want others to think you're an idiot as well?

You are BS road kill.

If you don't want to learn just keep doing what you have been doing.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#104795 Oct 15, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, I know. But at least you tried!

Again, altering other peoples posts is among the most childish of internet pranks.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#104796 Oct 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Then tell us, how do those two plates move when the mountain range anchors them in place?
Wait .... whaaaaa'?

Erm, you missed a ton of geology classes.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#104797 Oct 15, 2012
Psychology wrote:
Doesn't everyone hate to be spoken too as if they were too stupid to know when anyone is trying to run BS on them?
But that is you problem Jimbo! Your BS detector runs in reverse.

You accept every cockamamie piece of nonsense from every fringe source, but reject anything that has passed the more rigorous standards of science. Whether its gravity, evolution, plate tectonics, you will unerringly reject the truth and accept the BS.

Do tell me: just one thing of grace, beauty, integrity, and intelligence that you admire, which is a product of human thought and action. Not counting "poor innocent three-year olds", that is officially a cop out answer. Just ONE thing people have accomplished that you can find admirable and upright!

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