Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 178661 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103953 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Rubbish. Come up with some actual research and we'll talk.


That would be your responsibility, but I am a natural helper:

Haldane, J.B.S., "The Cost of Natural Selection", J. Genet. 55:511-524, 1957.

Van Valen, Leigh, "Haldane’s Dilemma, evolutionary rates, and heterosis", Amer. Nat. 47:185-190, 1963.

Grant, Verne & Flake, Robert, "Solutions to the Cost-of-Selection Dilemma", Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 71(10): 3863–3865, Oct. 1974.

Nunney, Leonard, "The cost of natural selection revisited", Ann. Zool. Fennici. 40:185-194, 2003.(This paper describes computer simulations of small populations with variations in mutation rate and other factors, and produces results that are dramatically different than Haldane's low substitution limit except in certain limited situations).

Mutation rates in globin genes: the genetic load and Haldane's dilemma.

Salser W, Isaacson JS.
Prog Nucleic Acid Res Mol Biol. 1976;19:205-20.

'Haldane's dilemma' and the rate of evolution. Moran PA.
Ann Hum Genet. 1970 Jan;33(3):245-9.

"CB121: Haldane's Dilemma". TalkOrigins Archive. Retrieved 2008-11-03.

"Haldane's dilemma" and the rate of natural selection. O'Donald P.
Nature. 1969 Mar 1;221(5183):815-7.

"Haldane's dilemma" and the rate of evolution. Smith JM.
Nature. 1968 Sep 14;219(5159):1114-6.

Robert Williams. "Haldane's Dilemma". Retrieved 2008-11-03.

Ian Musgrave. "The Talk.Origins Archive Post of the Month: September 1999". Retrieved 2008-11-03.

Merry Christmas.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103954 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's all just made up to fit the theory. There isn't any evidence. You've been brainwashed.

Which theory? Which field of science? There are references from biology, chemistry, biochemistry, genetics, anthropology, archeology, geology,....

That conspiracy theory of yours just gets bigger and bigger. Is the government in on it? There are plenty of .gov web sites that talk about evolution and evolutionary biology and a lot of grant money gets paid out by the U.S. government to fund research in the area of evolution.

Are all of the Christian universities in on it? My niece goes to a southern baptist university in Georgia and is learning evolution in her biology class. Pick a major, accredited Christian university and I bet they teach evolution.

There are scientists from all over the world and from every walk of life that acknowledge evolution. Are they all in on it? They come from every political background. They come from every religion. They come from every financial background. How did they get so indoctrinated AND how is it that, all fields of science being related, so many fields of science have found supporting evidence for it?

Is the Illuminati in on it?
The KKK?
Russia?

All you have said is just made up to fit the theology. There isn't any evidence. You've been brainwashed.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103955 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
So you don't know? You have to look it up? Ha ha ha! And this is YOUR beloved ideology! If you're looking for a real winner of the idiot race, just look in the mirror.

Pot calls kettle black, story at 11.

You, however, don't have anything to look up. Notice you don't go to science pages but to fundy liar pages? Ha ha ha! And this is YOUR beloved ideology! If you're looking for a real winner of the idiot race, just look in the mirror.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#103956 Oct 8, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
That would be your responsibility, but I am a natural helper:
Haldane, J.B.S., "The Cost of Natural Selection", J. Genet. 55:511-524, 1957.
Van Valen, Leigh, "Haldane’s Dilemma, evolutionary rates, and heterosis", Amer. Nat. 47:185-190, 1963.
Grant, Verne & Flake, Robert, "Solutions to the Cost-of-Selection Dilemma", Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A. 71(10): 3863–3865, Oct. 1974.
Nunney, Leonard, "The cost of natural selection revisited", Ann. Zool. Fennici. 40:185-194, 2003.(This paper describes computer simulations of small populations with variations in mutation rate and other factors, and produces results that are dramatically different than Haldane's low substitution limit except in certain limited situations).
Mutation rates in globin genes: the genetic load and Haldane's dilemma.
Salser W, Isaacson JS.
Prog Nucleic Acid Res Mol Biol. 1976;19:205-20.
'Haldane's dilemma' and the rate of evolution. Moran PA.
Ann Hum Genet. 1970 Jan;33(3):245-9.
"CB121: Haldane's Dilemma". TalkOrigins Archive. Retrieved 2008-11-03.
"Haldane's dilemma" and the rate of natural selection. O'Donald P.
Nature. 1969 Mar 1;221(5183):815-7.
"Haldane's dilemma" and the rate of evolution. Smith JM.
Nature. 1968 Sep 14;219(5159):1114-6.
Robert Williams. "Haldane's Dilemma". Retrieved 2008-11-03.
Ian Musgrave. "The Talk.Origins Archive Post of the Month: September 1999". Retrieved 2008-11-03.
Merry Christmas.
More of a natural con-artist. The research articles support Haldane and the rest are just Talkorigins propaganda nonsense. Talkorigins post of the month? Really?

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#103957 Oct 8, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Which theory? Which field of science? There are references from biology, chemistry, biochemistry, genetics, anthropology, archeology, geology,....
That conspiracy theory of yours just gets bigger and bigger. Is the government in on it? There are plenty of .gov web sites that talk about evolution and evolutionary biology and a lot of grant money gets paid out by the U.S. government to fund research in the area of evolution.
Are all of the Christian universities in on it? My niece goes to a southern baptist university in Georgia and is learning evolution in her biology class. Pick a major, accredited Christian university and I bet they teach evolution.
There are scientists from all over the world and from every walk of life that acknowledge evolution. Are they all in on it? They come from every political background. They come from every religion. They come from every financial background. How did they get so indoctrinated AND how is it that, all fields of science being related, so many fields of science have found supporting evidence for it?
Is the Illuminati in on it?
The KKK?
Russia?
All you have said is just made up to fit the theology. There isn't any evidence. You've been brainwashed.
And they be wrong.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#103958 Oct 8, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't pretend to know everything Urb, like you do.
Where did I claim that liar?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#103959 Oct 8, 2012
Urb, you keep complaining that Talk Rational is propaganda. If that was the case you should be able to find an article of theirs that you are able to refute.

Go ahead, put your money where your mouth is. Put some work into refuting the article of your choice.

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#103960 Oct 8, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
What is stopping you from looking it up yourself. Google is really quick. I gave you a couple of references a few posts back. Enough to get you started.
Oh, you mean you actually know about Google? I impressed!

Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#103961 Oct 8, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Urb, you keep complaining that Talk Rational is propaganda. If that was the case you should be able to find an article of theirs that you are able to refute.
Go ahead, put your money where your mouth is. Put some work into refuting the article of your choice.
It's garbage.
MIDutch

Clinton Township, MI

#103962 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
And they be wrong.
Well, unlike YOUR "science", the VAST majority of REAL scientist and the VAST majority of non-"fundie xristian creotards" who are aware of it, accept that the logic, reasoning, scientific research and empirical evidence in support of the Theory of Evolution are sound.

What you and your "fundie xristian creotard" cult think about it is irrelevant.

Hopefully, your cult will be extinct in a few more years.

http://www.barna.org/teens-next-gen-articles/...

"Reason #3 – Churches come across as antagonistic to science.
One of the reasons young adults feel disconnected from church or from faith is the tension they feel between Christianity and science. The most common of the perceptions in this arena is “Christians are too confident they know all the answers”(35%). Three out of ten young adults with a Christian background feel that “churches are out of step with the scientific world we live in”(29%). Another one-quarter embrace the perception that “Christianity is anti-science”(25%). And nearly the same proportion (23%) said they have “been turned off by the creation-versus-evolution debate.” Furthermore, the research shows that many science-minded young Christians are struggling to find ways of staying faithful to their beliefs and to their professional calling in science-related industries."

Obviously, this evangelical xristian anti-science problem exists mostly here in the US, but it does seem that your evangelical xristian young people aren't as bronze age, goat herder FAIRY TALE blind as you are.
MIDutch

Clinton Township, MI

#103963 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did I claim that liar?
It's part of the whole "literal and inerrant Bible is revealed knowledge, so anything we make up about it must be right" thing you "fundie xristian creotards" have going.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103964 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
More of a natural con-artist. The research articles support Haldane and the rest are just Talkorigins propaganda nonsense. Talkorigins post of the month? Really?

No, they do not support Haldane's original contention (which even he backed away from). If you are saying this I will call you a liar and begin the process of quoting from the articles.

"Haldane stated at the time of publication "I am quite aware that my conclusions will probably need drastic revision", and subsequent corrected calculations found that the cost disappears. He had made an invalid simplifying assumption which negated his assumption of constant population size, and had also incorrectly assumed that two mutations would take twice as long to reach fixation as one, while sexual recombination means that two can be selected simultaneously so that both reach fixation more quickly. The creationist claim is based on further errors and invalid assumptions."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haldane%27s_dile...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4...

http://www.sekj.org/PDF/anz40-free/anz40-185....

Clearly selection IS limited, but not a cost that prevents evolution of the species.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103965 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
And they be wrong.

So you, a fellow internet troll, are claiming that you know more, are smarter, wiser and more informed than all the scientists from the fields of biology, chemistry, biochemistry, genetics, anthropology, archeology, geology,....

are claiming that you know more, are smarter, wiser and more informed than all the scientists from the U.S. and other major governments (I might give you that one).

..are claiming that you know more, are smarter, wiser and more informed than all the the Christian universities which teach evolution.

..are claiming that you know more, are smarter, wiser and more informed than all the scientists from all over the world and from every walk of life, from every political background, from every religion, from every financial background.

How did they get so indoctrinated AND how is it that, all fields of science being related, so many fields of science have found supporting evidence for it?

Another hand waive coming?

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103966 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, you mean you actually know about Google? I impressed!

Apparently you don't or you would have checked out the references for Haldane's dilemma and stopped before you put your keyboard in your mouth.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#103967 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's garbage.

Look at the coward run....

Run away...
Run away...


Subduction Zone wrote:
Urb, you keep complaining that Talk Rational is propaganda. If that was the case you should be able to find an article of theirs that you are able to refute.
Go ahead, put your money where your mouth is. Put some work into refuting the article of your choice.
Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#103968 Oct 8, 2012
They sure aren't teaching anything else in High School. It's a complete waste of time. Kids should go from 8th grade directly into college. The only problem is, public union teachers aren't doing a good job in grade school either.
MIDutch

Clinton Township, MI

#103969 Oct 8, 2012
Eighthman wrote:
They sure aren't teaching anything else in High School. It's a complete waste of time. Kids should go from 8th grade directly into college. The only problem is, public union teachers aren't doing a good job in grade school either.
Well, you can always let the fast food fry cook, grocery store cashiers, church janitor parents who think the Earth is 6000 years old, the first man was magically conjured up out of a pile of dirt, pi=3, insects have 4 legs, etc. teach the children.

Instead of being 24th, or whatever we are, in the world where education is concerned the US can be somewhere in the hundreds, which I'm sure will make the "fundie xristian creationists" very proud.

What was it that Martin Luther said?

"Reason must be deluded, blinded, and destroyed. Faith must trample underfoot all reason, sense, and understanding, and whatever it sees must be put out of sight and ... know nothing but the word of God."-Martin Luther

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#103970 Oct 8, 2012
Psychology wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow, I see you're getting very creative in your searches, very nice!
Creative methods of finding bullshit to support bullshit isn't "very nice." It's stupid.

By the way, where is the evidence supporting your claims about tackstrips and rotational gravity? You want people to support their claims with evidence, yet you never do so. Do you know the word that describes this kind of behavior?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#103971 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's garbage.
We demonstrate how your sources are bullshit, and you ignore it. We ask you to demonstrate how our sources are bullshit, but you never do. That is a concession on your part that you are incapable of doing so, either because you acknowledge their validity but cannot admit such, or don't have the intellectual means to figure out how to do so (which you can't, because your entire premise is "I'm right therefore I'm right and everything that disagrees with me, by definition, is wrong"). Your concession is noted and accepted. Thanks for playing.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#103972 Oct 8, 2012
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's all just made up to fit the theory. There isn't any evidence. You've been brainwashed.
Everything is wrong except your personal interpretation of the Bible, or, at least, the interpretation you've been taught to accept. Good for you for finally being honest.

Now, just tell us why only fundamentalist Christian creationists are able to be competent in science, and EVERYBODY ELSE IN THE ENTIRE WORLD is not.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
evolution is correct. prove me wrong 16 min Zog Has-fallen 6
News Evolution vs. Creation (Jul '11) 19 min DanFromSmithville 171,792
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 1 hr Marksman11 142,581
Beware of Kamikaze Snakes. They Are Evolving in... 3 hr Zog Has-fallen 35
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 4 hr Strel 20,589
News Intelligent design 8 hr Paul Porter1 3
News Pope Francis Affirms Evolution and Big Bang Theory 20 hr Paul Porter1 266
More from around the web