Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180279 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#81816 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
Isn't it funny how the clique tries to ostracize and bully them from the board, essentially taking away their freedom of speech
Ahhh, another person who doesn't get that "freedom of speech" has to do with the government, but doesn't have to do with who Topix allows to post and on what topics.
Chimney

Dubai, UAE

#81817 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
Shall I go find the statements that you and your little peons have made about how you learn nothing from those fundy sites?
You nothing but deceit chimney and you would drag MGel and UC onto your lies. But then I guess that's up to them
The challenges from those who argue against evolution force me to think it through more clearly, and understand the subject better.

An example is Sanford. Sanford's hypothesis led me to really think it through and realise that he had a point, and if he had remained rational could have made a significant contribution. Sanford made me understand that there is an upper limit to mutation rates that will prove fatal at the species level. This leads to the idea that surviving species have had mutation rates suited to the environmentally determined level of mutagens, and that a rate too low will lead to non-adaptability and too high will lead to genetic entropy if its too much for natural selection to overcome. Sanford's error was assuming that the rates we see in nature are too high, because in my view he made faulty assumptions about specificity in the genome.

Genetic entropy made me consider the idea that the return to fitness will never retrace exactly the same steps which is interesting too. It made me consider closely the difference between DNA represented as a blueprint versus a recipe, and of the difference between a symbolic language and a physical (chemical) template.

The frequent challenges to the idea of "macro-evolution" and the challenges that no new information can be created led me to look further into the ways it can and does actually happen, instead of complacently assuming it.

The evidence of the genome was something I only understood superficially until I really looked into it in response to challenges.

Those are some examples. Going further, one sees that the underlying motivations of those against evolution are often not scientific but social. Its not jut about belief in particular religions but the fear that without those belief systems, society will degenerate into chaos. These fears are unfounded but they are real fears nevertheless. Its up to science to show that morality can be based on concerns for your fellow man and not just on fear of God.

The whole point of these challenges goes to the best way to test ideas. Its not about merely listening to those who agree with you and glossing over what the critics say. You have to really examine the counter arguments - its an antidote to cognitive bias.

I really do not care what your bitter attitude. Until you can learn to cope with differences of opinion without turning into a rabid pit-bull, you will live within a tortured mind, and sorry as I am for you, its what you deserve.
Chimney

Dubai, UAE

#81818 Dec 8, 2011
appleboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's the problem: CW is "red meat." The fault is ours for taking the bait.
Now there is a question. Since both chickens and sheep have high metabolisms, warm blood, and presumably lots of blood running through the muscles, why is it that chicken meat is white? OK its not exactly on topic, but at least its a question about animal biology. Anyone know?

“Earth Science”

Level 1

Since: Jan 10

MI

#81819 Dec 8, 2011
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Come on rex, who are you kidding? There isn't any biological difference between a wolf and a dog. Whose side are you on anyway?
Biology is a broad term idiot, genetic or anatomical? Sorry, I should simplify those terms for you. Genes (not the ones you wear) or how they look?
Genetically? Not much, they have patterns, which means only 1 gene needs to be changed to make a large change. Also, simply compare the 2, A toy dog, to a racing dog, to a guard dog.

“Earth Science”

Level 1

Since: Jan 10

MI

#81820 Dec 8, 2011
MIDutch wrote:
Is it just me or does anyone else think "out-of-work-carpet-layer " needs to be institutionalized and medicated for his and everyone else's safety?
I think with that kind of user name, we shouldn't expect much.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#81821 Dec 8, 2011
Chimney wrote:
Those are some examples. Going further, one sees that the underlying motivations of those against evolution are often not scientific but social. Its not jut about belief in particular religions but the fear that without those belief systems, society will degenerate into chaos. These fears are unfounded but they are real fears nevertheless. Its up to science to show that morality can be based on concerns for your fellow man and not just on fear of God.
I will disagree here. It is *not* the job of science to show that morality can be based on concern for your fellow man. The job of science is to observe and explain. However, it *is* the job of the atheists and secular humanists to show that it is possible to based morality on something other than the god concept.
MichiganGEL

United States

#81822 Dec 8, 2011
Chimney wrote:
<quoted text>
Now there is a question. Since both chickens and sheep have high metabolisms, warm blood, and presumably lots of blood running through the muscles, why is it that chicken meat is white? OK its not exactly on topic, but at least its a question about animal biology. Anyone know?
Of course, not all chicken meat is white - just the breast (bet it's very late where you are!...;-)).

Off hand, I thought it might have to do with the difference between "fast" (twitch) and slow muscles, but here's the straight poop:
------- Excerpt:------
Myoglobin is the compound in the muscle that receives oxygen from the blood and holds it in the cell, ready for use. Cells that contain myoglobin hae a red color. Cells that use more oxygen than others contain more myoglobn and are darker in color.

Chicken legs and thighs, which move constantly and need oxygen, are dark meat. In domestic chickens, which don't fly, the breast muscles are not used, so they are white. Wild game birds like ducks, which do fly, have dark breast meat.

http://askville.amazon.com/makes-white-meat-r...
----------

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#81823 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
Isn't it funny how when I offer things 6 months to a year before the media decides to carry them and give the credit to someone else, that it's okay for them to steal my work from me, while those like you attack me and that's okay?
That's okay I know, and that is enough for me.

Paranoid is as paranoid thinks.
MichiganGEL

United States

#81824 Dec 8, 2011
Chimney wrote:
Sanford's hypothesis makes recovery of fitness in a genetically degenerated population impossible. For him genetic entropy is a one way street.
----------

MGEL: If by 'genetic entropy' is meant the mutation of a specific gene or genes, I think you agree that such a mutation is a one-way street, yes? Thus your post,
----------

Chimney: There is no good reason to believe that a particular mutation would be reversed. That is unlikely. What is more likely is that additional novel mutations would occur, and through selection these would create a new pathway to fitness. Thus the recovered population would have a slightly different set of genes after it recovered fitness, not simply a reversion to its original set.
----------

MGEL: What kind of mutations are you alluding to when you invoke "novel mutations " that can return an organism to fitness? Are you saying that enough additional random *positive* genetic mutations can occur soon enough to out-compete the negative? Is it not more likely that the 'epimutations,' which occur 1,000X more often, will save the day?
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/09/...
As I understand it, these epimutations do not affect the genes themselves, but only the way that they are expressed. Thus as the reference says, epimutations are often reversed within a few generations, unless selected for. This sounds to me like the more likely survival mode rather than waiting for enough positive genetic mutations to make survival possible... Agree?

Is this basically what you're saying when you said, "Thus the recovered population would have a slightly different set of genes after it recovered fitness, not simply a reversion to its original set"??
LowellGuy

United States

#81825 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
On 9/11, when the world trade center crushed and burned to death over 3000 people, israeli jews were dancing on the rooftops watching it happen.
How did they know to be watching on that rooftop?
The media remained quiet as our government wisked them out of this country.
Evidence?
the carpet whisperer

United States

#81827 Dec 8, 2011

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

#81828 Dec 8, 2011
i hate t rex wrote:
<quoted text> I think with that kind of user name, we shouldn't expect much.
Hey T! How ya been? How's school going?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

#81829 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
BFD
the carpet whisperer

United States

#81830 Dec 8, 2011
Mike seems to think it's no big deal that israeli's were dancing on the rooftops as 3000 americans were being crushed and burned to death.

That sounds about like the clique.

Idiots rarely think before they open their mouth.

Wait for it.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

#81831 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
Mike seems to think it's no big deal that israeli's were dancing on the rooftops as 3000 americans were being crushed and burned to death.
That sounds about like the clique.
Idiots rarely think before they open their mouth.
Wait for it.
NO, I thing your jerkoff references are no big deal. Any idiot can write something just like any idiot will believe it. You know who you are.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

#81832 Dec 8, 2011
think!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

#81833 Dec 8, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
Idiots rarely think before they open their mouth.
we all understand you problem, jimmy.
the carpet whisperer

United States

#81834 Dec 8, 2011
Oh I see, if mike presents a website it's believable but if somebody else that he doesn't like presents a website, it's just a jerk off website.

Mikey did your parents make you a f****** moron or did you do that all by yourself.

“Is that all you've got?”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#81835 Dec 8, 2011
this thread has become so lame that I'm taking it off my reply tracker.
the carpet whisperer

United States

#81836 Dec 8, 2011
Hey mikey Your friends have to be just is moronic as you, when they don't say anything about your sickness. That's the clique.

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