Should evolution be taught in high sc...

Should evolution be taught in high school?

There are 180279 comments on the www.scientificblogging.com story from Feb 24, 2008, titled Should evolution be taught in high school?. In it, www.scientificblogging.com reports that:

Microbiologist Carl Woese is well known as an iconoclast. At 79 years of age, Woese is still shaking things up. Most recently, he stated in an interview with Wired that...

"My feeling is that evolution shouldn't be taught at the lower grades. You don't teach quantum mechanics in the grade schools. One has to be quite educated to work with these concepts; what they pass on as evolution in high schools is nothing but repetitious tripe that teachers don't understand."

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.scientificblogging.com.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#80811 Dec 1, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
what is the topic of this thread
Evolution.
the carpet whisperer wrote:
and can you tell us all, exactly, how many posts speak directly to the topic? ;)
Very few of yours. Why do you have so much trouble sticking to the topic?

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#80812 Dec 1, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
When drew smith posted what he did, did you correct him? How many times did drew smith make that same claim and why did you never once correct him?
You don't correct people when they aren't wrong. Perhaps you don't understand that.
Chimney

Tbilisi, Georgia

#80813 Dec 1, 2011
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever Chimney. You can believe what you want. I happen to be convinced that the science is confirming the truth of the bible. I understand the fossil record and what it is saying. I understand the radiometric dating methods and their assumptions and error rates. I understand the genetic code and complex biological systems. I understand the evidence from astronomy and cosmology. I understand the extreme fine tuning in biology and cosmology and physics and chemistry. It all points to intellegence and evedence is confirming the genesis record of history - the way it reads. It is not poetry - poetry can be found in other books of the bible like the Psalms. Psalms is poetry. Genesis does not read like that at all. I wish you wouldn't say I have abandoned science. My god, that's is all I study anymore. Everyday, astronomy, cosmology, biology, genetics, etc. That is the reason I came to the Lord. It was the science that did it for me. Everything from creation, the fall, the flood, babel, Christ, the evidence previous mentioned, it all makes sense. Even things like Sanford Genetic Entropy make perfect sense to a person who accepts intelligent design/writing down of the genetic code, following by deterioration due to time and wear & tear. The SloT makes sense. The fine tuning makes sense. We now have a good comfort of the Distant Starlight/Time issue. We have a good explanation for radiometric dating. A young creation makes better sense than the TOE. I have 98 reason why evolution never happened. You have your theory and I have mine. I have every bit as good or better scientific evidence to back mine but I have something much more than that: I have the Bible!
You say all of the above only by refusing to read the evidence - massive overwhelming evidence - to the contrary. Its that simple. Your claims for a young earth, for stasis in the fossil record, for genetic entropy, and so on, can only be maintained by an extreme refusal to look at all the evidence. All you have done is cherry pick a tiny amount of controversy on some minor points and spun them into a case for contrary thinking. It does not wash.

The earth is old and life evolved. 99.9% of the evidence says it incontrovertibly. 0.01% of the evidence says there might be minor issues with some assumptions, occasionally. That is all you read.

Therefore you are incapable of having a balanced opinion.
the carpet whisperer

United States

#80814 Dec 1, 2011
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't correct people when they aren't wrong. Perhaps you don't understand that.
psychology, from the mouths of babes.
the carpet whisperer

United States

#80815 Dec 2, 2011
Your hatred of me and science is very evident. 4 example, if you go back in the history here and look, you will see that when anyone has asked me a question, I have answered that question, 4 the most part. When I told you that I could show you how animals can recognize themselves, not 1 of you asked the question, because you don't want the question answered by me.

That's okay the things that are meant to be will be and the things that are not meant to be, simply will not be.
the carpet whisperer

United States

#80816 Dec 2, 2011
To overcome those that use the childish innuendo and the ignorance created by such, you need simply to use the truth, every single time. If you lie once, knowingly, they will have you. However you must parry their slings and arrows forever, because power demands obedience and the power of science has the power of the government backing them. Truth may not be heard, but it will always win.
the carpet whisperer

United States

#80817 Dec 2, 2011
In the nova short film, "ape genius", the 2 year old boy always wins, against the 4 year old boy. In other words, the truth always wins. However when we would look at the heart of science, do we see in innuendp and ignorance, controlling and refising the truth.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80818 Dec 2, 2011
Urban Cowboy wrote:
<quoted text>
Whatever Chimney. You can believe what you want. I happen to be convinced that the science is confirming the truth of the bible. I understand the fossil record and what it is saying. I understand the radiometric dating methods and their assumptions and error rates. I understand the genetic code and complex biological systems. I understand the evidence from astronomy and cosmology. I understand the extreme fine tuning in biology and cosmology and physics and chemistry. It all points to intellegence and evedence is confirming the genesis record of history - the way it reads. It is not poetry - poetry can be found in other books of the bible like the Psalms. Psalms is poetry. Genesis does not read like that at all. I wish you wouldn't say I have abandoned science.
But you have. I'll show you:
Urban Cowboy wrote:
My god, that's is all I study anymore. Everyday, astronomy, cosmology, biology, genetics, etc. That is the reason I came to the Lord. It was the science that did it for me. Everything from creation, the fall, the flood, babel, Christ, the evidence previous mentioned, it all makes sense. Even things like Sanford Genetic Entropy make perfect sense to a person who accepts intelligent design/writing down of the genetic code, following by deterioration due to time and wear & tear. The SloT makes sense. The fine tuning makes sense. We now have a good comfort of the Distant Starlight/Time issue. We have a good explanation for radiometric dating. A young creation makes better sense than the TOE. I have 98 reason why evolution never happened. You have your theory and I have mine. I have every bit as good or better scientific evidence to back mine but I have something much more than that: I have the Bible!
See?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80819 Dec 2, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
Some people think animals don't recognize themselves. How many of you here believe animals cannot recognize themselves?
All animals are many times smarter than what you give them credit 4.
Uhuh, cats have got us whipped.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80820 Dec 2, 2011
MichiganGEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Earth to Brenda... Earth to Brenda!!.....
Isn't she on your side?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80821 Dec 2, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
To overcome those that use the childish innuendo and the ignorance created by such, you need simply to use the truth, every single time. If you lie once, knowingly, they will have you. However you must parry their slings and arrows forever, because power demands obedience and the power of science has the power of the government backing them. Truth may not be heard, but it will always win.
You go, Jimbo!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#80822 Dec 2, 2011
Aaaaaand, it's that time of the year again, Cowboy (ya big liar)! Keep this up we could make it to two years! So, here we go!

(ahem)

Why do you accept Sanford as a reliable authority when you know of his religious bias which requires him to throw objectivity (and pretty much the whole of science) out the window in favour of his religious beliefs as a YEC? Why do you accept the words of other creationists who also begin with a theological bias, like Dembski, Behe and Denton? Why do you accept the views of Dembski who is a mathematician (not a biologist), and not a very prolific one at that?

Sanford is a YEC. Dembski is an OEC. Behe accepts common descent, but thinks evolution couldn't happen without Goddidit, and that God might be dead. Denton accepts evolution and doesn't support whatever it is you think he does because your info is out of date. Yet most creationists happily continue to quotemine him anyway. And Francis Collins accepts evolution. So why do you accept the words of all these people when they ALL conflict with each other?

If genetic entropy is a problem for evolution, please explain why the human population appears to be propagating without too much problem. Please explain why DNA points to common descent and if it doesn't then please provide an alternative. Please explain why the fossil record points to common descent and if it doesn't then please provide an alternative. Please explain why orthologous ERV's point to common descent and if they don't then please provide an alternative. Please explain why fused chromosome 2 points to common descent and if it doesn't then please provide an alternative. Please explain why the fossil record, DNA and orthologous ERV's fall into the same nested hierarchies, pointing to common descent and if they don't then please provide an alternative. Don't forget to let us know if hummingbirds and ostriches are related or separate creations and how this was determined scientifically, and why you fail to address the fact that the flagellum's status as IC was compromised by Yersinia pestis.

Previously you have hinted at Intelligent Design. What exactly IS the "scientific theory" of ID? Who or what is the designer and how can we tell? What mechanism did it use to do whatever it is you think it did and how can we tell? How is "design" quantified? When and where did it do it? What observations can be made in regards to ID? Why is this (potentially all-powerful universe-creating) designer apparently incapable of evolution and how were these limits determined scientifically? What useful scientific predictions does ID make? How can it be tested? How can it be falsified? Why do you always lie & ignore anything theologically inconvenient?

(Crickets plead with all six limbs to Dude if they can stop chirping. Wait a minute, now some of them have eight!!!)

Thought so.

“Be introduced to a new theory”

Level 1

Since: Aug 08

Los Angeles, CA

#80823 Dec 2, 2011
MichiganGEL wrote:
<quoted text>
Earth to Brenda... Earth to Brenda!!.....
And there is much to think over. The concept here doesn't revolve completely around how they do all the good things on earth and humans are unearthily in a negative type position without them. The only way humans do good it seems is by joining with this higher kingdom - lending our energy to their tasks. However, that won't always be the case. I began to think what it would be like trading places with them? And what it would be like after we separate from them? We somehow have to get back on our own two feet.

“Be introduced to a new theory”

Level 1

Since: Aug 08

Los Angeles, CA

#80824 Dec 2, 2011
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Isn't she on your side?
I haven't made their side yet. What I like most about "them" is their attempt and maneuvering to get the word out to all people on the earth. That is a great accomplishment - to become monumental from small beginnings.

Democracy has gone out into the world and reached far away places too, but it's beginnings were large and great. Who can ignore a nation?

Well many people can ignore that one man lived, but they didn't. The story reached them in some form or another.

Scientists can be concerned with how their material reaches others as well. It is a major effort to have knowledge circulate to the places it is needed and I will join with any group like those that disperses this kind of material. Examine the beginnings. I am just an immaterial witness to the books that we now have in theosophy and Saint Germain Foundation, but books get put on shelves too easily.

How do I take my side and make it your side?

“Be introduced to a new theory”

Level 1

Since: Aug 08

Los Angeles, CA

#80825 Dec 2, 2011
I think that my discovery should focus on two discoveries: 1)discovery of a higher kingdom which I named girasas and 2) discovery of a complementary process to evolution named involution and the beings that participate in involution. And it was discovered using all means available - all senses, thinking on all that is known, and working out the problem of existence with a mathematical precision.

“Be introduced to a new theory”

Level 1

Since: Aug 08

Los Angeles, CA

#80826 Dec 2, 2011
And any book that I could write would PALE in comparison with the books that are already present in the literature of those two (and other) organizations. Maurice Cooke from Canada channeled Hilarion in a series of books. I have read them and find some very interesting concepts and values presented there that I have never found anywhere else. Hilarion has been called the Master of the 5th Ray of Science.

Level 1

Since: Mar 07

Toronto, Canada

#80827 Dec 2, 2011
Evolution should be taught in schools. All schools. It is science. Keep religion and its bastard child creationism in churches where it belongs. If you people want religion in schools then allow us to teach evolution in churches. Evolution is based on facts. It is a science. Now piss off and read your 2,000 year old book written by a gang of whacked out nutters running around the desert. Hey , if you want to believe that some guy had a conversation with a burning bush than go ahead. Just don't try to force that shit on schools.

Level 4

Since: Jan 08

La Honda, CA

#80828 Dec 2, 2011
brenda6 wrote:
<quoted text>
And there is much to think over. The concept here doesn't revolve completely around how they do all the good things on earth and humans are unearthily in a negative type position without them. The only way humans do good it seems is by joining with this higher kingdom - lending our energy to their tasks. However, that won't always be the case. I began to think what it would be like trading places with them? And what it would be like after we separate from them? We somehow have to get back on our own two feet.
Over, over, again Earth to Brenda, is this thing on?

I'm not getting a signal, test 1.2.3.
Level 6

Since: Aug 07

United States

#80829 Dec 2, 2011
MichiganGEL wrote:
<quoted text>
I heartily agree, CW. The generation of monarchs that migrate to that small mountainside tract in Mexico grows up in Canada! Now that's really one powerful GPS!!
It is trully amazing that the generation that makes the northward trip from Mexico is 3 generations removed from the generation that made the previous southward trip from Canada. The butterfly that makes the trip never did it before; neither did his parents, or even its grandparents! This knowledge and programming must be built-in, or innate, and is coded/programmed into the Monarch's genome to be processed/executed at the appropriate time. The ToE could never explain such technology/behavior. Only a supremely intelligent engineer who cared to design such a technological marvel in such a already amazing lifecycle and make it stunningly beautiful as well.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#80830 Dec 2, 2011
the carpet whisperer wrote:
In the nova short film, "ape genius", the 2 year old boy always wins, against the 4 year old boy. In other words, the truth always wins. However when we would look at the heart of science, do we see in innuendp and ignorance, controlling and refising the truth.
Oh, I think we can all see where the ignorance is.

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