Since: May 14

Europe

#1784 Aug 5, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
On the contrary, when the universe was one second old, it was spectacularly NOT benign. In fact, the temperature and pressures *everywhere* were such that nuclear fusion was happening *everywhere*. The center of the sun is no comparison to how the entire universe was when .
I expected you would be different from them and understand my point.Of course i know life was imposible one second into the bang, i even went ahead to say 'later , when the universe was big enough to have safe places where life could form...' meaning life could not have been posible initially. The universe was benign in the sense that the processes and events happening within it were happening in such a way that life would spring up in some planet somewhere. To refer to our friend Steve(i love this because we all agree about it),the rate of expansion was benign because it was happening in a way conducive to a future window of time for life to exist. If you cannot understand that then i cannot get simpler.

Since: May 14

Europe

#1785 Aug 5, 2014
In some planet somewhere in the future.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#1786 Aug 5, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> I expected you would be different from them and understand my point.Of course i know life was imposible one second into the bang, i even went ahead to say 'later , when the universe was big enough to have safe places where life could form...' meaning life could not have been posible initially. The universe was benign in the sense that the processes and events happening within it were happening in such a way that life would spring up in some planet somewhere. To refer to our friend Steve(i love this because we all agree about it),the rate of expansion was benign because it was happening in a way conducive to a future window of time for life to exist. If you cannot understand that then i cannot get simpler.
Sounds like backpedaling to me.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#1787 Aug 5, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> I expected you would be different from them and understand my point.Of course i know life was imposible one second into the bang, i even went ahead to say 'later , when the universe was big enough to have safe places where life could form...' meaning life could not have been posible initially. The universe was benign in the sense that the processes and events happening within it were happening in such a way that life would spring up in some planet somewhere. To refer to our friend Steve(i love this because we all agree about it),the rate of expansion was benign because it was happening in a way conducive to a future window of time for life to exist. If you cannot understand that then i cannot get simpler.
Dodging, Kenny?

Don't mind:

Well let's have a look at that, shall we?

Why such a very easy and simple question only be answered by the spiritually rich?

What lots of foundational info do we miss then? You seem to be one of those spiritually rich, assessed by your wise and rich words, so explain please.

No, really let us know why all those other religions are false, instruments of deceit and control of the masses.

Go ahead, I am wasting away....

BTW your post is an almost exact copy of the answers I get when I ask a Muslim about it.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1788 Aug 5, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> I expected you would be different from them and understand my point.Of course i know life was imposible one second into the bang, i even went ahead to say 'later , when the universe was big enough to have safe places where life could form...' meaning life could not have been posible initially.
Yes, you did make that point. fair enough
The universe was benign in the sense that the processes and events happening within it were happening in such a way that life would spring up in some planet somewhere. To refer to our friend Steve(i love this because we all agree about it),the rate of expansion was benign because it was happening in a way conducive to a future window of time for life to exist. If you cannot understand that then i cannot get simpler.
It is benign in the sense that life is possible, agreed. However, the fact that there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000 planets in the known universe and proportionately very few of them are likely to be able to support life certainly argues circumstantially against the notion that creation of the universe was human centred ("a test for our souls") or even earth centred.

Evolution and the Big Bang are theories supported by the physical evidence. Six day creation, and the separate and distinct creation of all the animal and plant "kinds", is not. You therefore have to accept that much of your Bible is allegorical, or simply false. Nor does the "God hypothesis" require the Bible to be true at any point. That is a fact that few of your lot seems to ever remember.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1789 Aug 5, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Well let's have a look at that, shall we?
Why such a very easy and simple question only be answered by the spiritually rich?
What lots of foundational info do we miss then? You seem to be one of those spiritually rich, assessed by your wise and rich words, so explain please.
No, really let us know why all those other religions are false, instruments of deceit and control of the masses.
Go ahead, I am wasting away....
BTW your post is an almost exact copy of the answers I get when I ask a Muslim about it.
I have never seen a defence for an established religion vs other established religions that was not circular, nor blind to its own deficiencies.

I continue to make an exception for Zen, which simply claims all dogma is ultimately pointless, making it at least compatible with rational empirical thinking. That does not make me a Zen Buddhist, but its nice to know that at least one religious system grew up to the point where it jettisoned ultimately futile and unsupportable fairy stories about how we got here. Zen does not pretend to know, nor particularly care.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1790 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> This is one of the toughest questions you can pose to a christian. It can be answered only by the spiritually rich. And most likely you will not connect with the answer given because you lack lots of foundational info. For now let me assure you that those other religions are false, instruments of deceit and control of the masses. But God in His mercies promises to judge with perfect justice all who are trapped in them. Again lots of specifics are hidden for the reason of avoiding coercion and thus man remains free to make choices. Somehow God brings people from all walks of life into His fold, even from anti christian religions.It is His pledge to be Just that settles this question in most beleivers minds , atleast in those who trust Him.
Say what? Religion can only be understood by the religious? Wow... I think that what you may mean is that particular forms of religion can only be forgiven by those indoctrinated into those particular forms.

And what gives you the impression that “those other religions are false”... So funny how the adherents to those religions also believe your religion is false. That’s the thing about religion; it is based on belief as opposed to reality. You may note that other religions also attract people from all walks of life and boast a god (or gods) who will forgive those of different religions – actually more so than the christian god – see below.

What is an anti christian religion? The religious of all religions simply want to get on with their life without interference from others, particularly from people of other religions who think they know better because they say ‘our god is better than your god’ despite the fact they have no valid evidence for that claim.

However it does seem that you being a christian means you are anti any other religion, there does seem to be some hypocrisy in your post.

And finally?
“Just” to those innocent first born of Egypt?
“Just” to everyone who was not Noah or a close buddy thus being responsible for the first genocide?
“Just” to Adam who he allowed to be deceived by a talking snake?
“Just” to promote Abel’s gifts over Cain’s and thus inciting the first biblical murder
“Just”... I suggest you read the OT without christian blinkers. You babble (and the Tanakh and Qur’an – all the same god) promotes your god as the most obnoxious, selfish, blood thirsty, violent, murderous, foot stomping egotestical maniac.

Since: May 14

Europe

#1791 Aug 6, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
It is benign in the sense that life is possible, agreed. However, the fact that there are 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000 planets in the known universe and proportionately very few of them are likely to be able to support life certainly argues circumstantially against the notion that creation of the universe was human centred ("a test for our souls") or even earth centred..
Thats how you people get lost. No where does the bible teach that the universe was created with purposely for humans. It does however state that the earth was made for mans habitation. On the other hand , the vast cosmos,(which seems to baffle many why it had to be so big), was created purposely to display Gods abilities and His power ; Psalms 19 :1 . The heavens declare the glory of God.The skies proclaim the work of His hands. Isaiah 40;26 . Lift your eyes and look to the heavens; who created all this ? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one ,and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength not one of them is missing.

Since: May 14

Europe

#1792 Aug 6, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Dodging, Kenny?
Don't mind:
Well let's have a look at that, shall we?
Why such a very easy and simple question only be answered by the spiritually rich?
What lots of foundational info do we miss then? You seem to be one of those spiritually rich, assessed by your wise and rich words, so explain please.
No, really let us know why all those other religions are false, instruments of deceit and control of the masses.
Go ahead, I am wasting away....
BTW your post is an almost exact copy of the answers I get when I ask a Muslim about it.
Though i know the depth of this truth is beyond your reach i will give you an overview. Lucifer is in total control of this planet using a variety of very elaborate instruments to enslave the human mind and distract him from the business of reconnecting with his creator; Illicit sex , Monetary economy, false religion (Pseudochristianity, Islam, Budhism Hinduism etc) entertainment industry, politics, warfare , and others. Using these levers of control he has held virtually all men by the balls. Jesus called it slavery. And so He came to set those who are willing free. He acknowledged throughout scripture that those who will be rescued from this slavery are few though He will get His targeted number.Like i said theres lots of foundational info that you people need to have for the pieces to fall into place satisfactorily.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1793 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> Thats how you people get lost. No where does the bible teach that the universe was created with purposely for humans. It does however state that the earth was made for mans habitation. On the other hand , the vast cosmos,(which seems to baffle many why it had to be so big), was created purposely to display Gods abilities and His power ; Psalms 19 :1 . The heavens declare the glory of God.The skies proclaim the work of His hands. Isaiah 40;26 . Lift your eyes and look to the heavens; who created all this ? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one ,and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength not one of them is missing.
No, this is where YOU get lost. To you, everything and is opposite are evidence for God, therefore nothing is...if there was one and only life-capable planet in the universe, that would be evidence for God. If there are 10^24 planets in the universe, that would be evidence for God (showing us all how big and grand He is, this is your "explanation"). if the number of planets that can support life turn out to be 1 or 1 billion or 1 trillion, that will all be evidence for God, according to you.

Haven't you learned yet that when every possible scenario can be included to support your view, then none of it means anything? That is why science deals in testable, falsifiable hypotheses - where we can look at a phenomenon and say IF A, then B is supported by the evidence, if NOT A, then B is false.

So lets be clear. If the Earth really were an immovable object at the centre of the universe, as the Bible and all interpreters of the Bible insisted (to the point of burning those who disagreed)...until the heretics' case was disproven empirically, then you would have supporting evidence for your case. But its not, and you don't. Any more than you have any real evidence that Noah's flood occurred, the animals were created separately, or that Jesus really died and came back to life.

So I will go back to my statement of a few days ago. You have a spiritual sense of oneness or similar that is a subjective but very real phenomenon. In seeking to explain it, you have recourse to your local religion, whether Christian, Hindu, or Druid for that matter. You then interpret your feelings according to the doctrines these local thought leaders present.

Since none of them are based on any falsifiable, testable evidence, they are accepted or rejected on the basis of faith. You then are faced with the incompatible interpretation of your neighbours, and denounce them as wrong while YOUR version is RIGHT. In the endless and utterly pointless battle between conflicting fictional doctrines, you become a danger to all rational people. Those ISIS maniacs are exactly as sure as you are, even more so, that they have the RIGHT doctrine and everyone who disagrees is being misled by Satan.

You have no evidence, ergo, you have no answer.
wondering

Sunset, TX

#1794 Aug 6, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, this is where YOU get lost. To you, everything and is opposite are evidence for God, therefore nothing is...if there was one and only life-capable planet in the universe, that would be evidence for God. If there are 10^24 planets in the universe, that would be evidence for God (showing us all how big and grand He is, this is your "explanation"). if the number of planets that can support life turn out to be 1 or 1 billion or 1 trillion, that will all be evidence for God, according to you.
Haven't you learned yet that when every possible scenario can be included to support your view, then none of it means anything? That is why science deals in testable, falsifiable hypotheses - where we can look at a phenomenon and say IF A, then B is supported by the evidence, if NOT A, then B is false.
So lets be clear. If the Earth really were an immovable object at the centre of the universe, as the Bible and all interpreters of the Bible insisted (to the point of burning those who disagreed)...until the heretics' case was disproven empirically, then you would have supporting evidence for your case. But its not, and you don't. Any more than you have any real evidence that Noah's flood occurred, the animals were created separately, or that Jesus really died and came back to life.
So I will go back to my statement of a few days ago. You have a spiritual sense of oneness or similar that is a subjective but very real phenomenon. In seeking to explain it, you have recourse to your local religion, whether Christian, Hindu, or Druid for that matter. You then interpret your feelings according to the doctrines these local thought leaders present.
Since none of them are based on any falsifiable, testable evidence, they are accepted or rejected on the basis of faith. You then are faced with the incompatible interpretation of your neighbours, and denounce them as wrong while YOUR version is RIGHT. In the endless and utterly pointless battle between conflicting fictional doctrines, you become a danger to all rational people. Those ISIS maniacs are exactly as sure as you are, even more so, that they have the RIGHT doctrine and everyone who disagrees is being misled by Satan.
You have no evidence, ergo, you have no answer.
just out of curiosity, why do you capitalize "god: and "he"(when referring to god). it is not auto correct or self doing. so why would you capitalize something that you say is not real and believe does not exists? is that part of your safety net by trying to show some respect to god?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1795 Aug 6, 2014
wondering wrote:
<quoted text>
just out of curiosity, why do you capitalize "god: and "he"(when referring to god). it is not auto correct or self doing. so why would you capitalize something that you say is not real and believe does not exists? is that part of your safety net by trying to show some respect to god?
No, I'm showing respect to you. Just as I generally capitalize the word Christian and other religions. It is standard English usage and a bit of respect should allow us to discuss these things without degenerating into abuse, and that is what I would prefer.

Don't worry, "wondering", I am not playing Pascal's Wager. I have made absolutely no attempt to hedge my bets, do not accept Jesus Christ or any other human as my prophet or Saviour, nor believe its my duty to worship any God. Just so that its clear, for the record. If your belief system is correct, I fully expect to be damned to hell.

The point being, of course, that I find your belief system about as believable as Santa Claus stories, and the second point being, even if I could persuade myself to believe it was true, there is no way I could persuade myself that it represented the system of either a just or merciful God anyway. Feel free to kowtow to a "loving tyrant", even if its just one of your imagination.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#1796 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> I expected you would be different from them and understand my point.Of course i know life was imposible one second into the bang, i even went ahead to say 'later , when the universe was big enough to have safe places where life could form...' meaning life could not have been posible initially. The universe was benign in the sense that the processes and events happening within it were happening in such a way that life would spring up in some planet somewhere. To refer to our friend Steve(i love this because we all agree about it),the rate of expansion was benign because it was happening in a way conducive to a future window of time for life to exist. If you cannot understand that then i cannot get simpler.
I would point out that 'being conducive to life' is not even close to the same as 'being created for life'.

How large is the range of expansion rates that is conducive to life being produced? There are two main issues: that the universe last long enough for stars to form the elements required for life and then for life to evolve. The other issue is that the expansion rate not be so fast that when the first generation of stars explodes the material can collapse again to form the second generation of stars and also planets (that would have life). That leads to a fairly large range of expansion rates allowable.

Furthermore, if the expansion rate were smaller (so the universe re-collapses quickly), it is possible that the strength of the nuclear forces could be different to allow the heavier elements to be produced early on and NOT require stars, so that could allow for life.

Next, we have no idea what regulates the rate of expansion. For example, we have discovered that the expansion rate is currently accelerating. All that means is that life will not be possible in a few tens of billions of years. I think there is time enough.

And finally, this whole line of reasoning depends on the Big bang model, which you reject. it depends on our understanding that the universe is billions, not thousands of years old, which you reject. it depends on understanding that life has evolved, which you reject. In other words, you are simply being a hypocrite. Would you be happy with a 'scientific' discovery of a creator for the universe is that universe is verified to be billions of years old and that your particular religious book has it wrong? Somehow I doubt it.

Since: May 14

Europe

#1797 Aug 6, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Haven't you learned yet that when every possible scenario can be included to support your view, then none of it means anything? That is why science deals in testable, falsifiable hypotheses - where we can look at a phenomenon and say IF A, then B is supported by the evidence, if NOT A, then B is false.
So lets be clear. If the Earth really were an immovable object at the centre of the universe, as the Bible and all interpreters of the Bible insisted (to the point of burning those who disagreed)...until the heretics' case was disproven empirically,
Chimney, not every posible scenario can be included to support my view. Infact very little of what historical science presents to us goes in tandem with my view. Miultiverses and bounces of the universe are examples of ideas moving against me. And the funny thing is that these hypotheses do not fall under "testable, falsifiable hypotheses" even as you claim is what science deals in. You wonder why credible science guys would tout them as a field of scientific research.
And where does the bible postulate an immovable earth that is at the centre of the universe ? Where? Did you read where i said pseudochristianity is a lever in the hands of lucifer? Why is it so hard for you to see what am saying? I will repeat it again. Jesus foretold a situation where agents of lucifer will infiltrate the church and cause it to be an abhorent to the nations,.by the introduction of dogma and false teachings(He called it yeast).Simply put these were unbiblical teachings that only served to advance the devils agenda ; namely to scatter the brethren and at the same time repulse outsiders who would otherwise have joined the church.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#1798 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> Thats how you people get lost. No where does the bible teach that the universe was created with purposely for humans. It does however state that the earth was made for mans habitation. On the other hand , the vast cosmos,(which seems to baffle many why it had to be so big), was created purposely to display Gods abilities and His power ; Psalms 19 :1 . The heavens declare the glory of God.The skies proclaim the work of His hands. Isaiah 40;26 . Lift your eyes and look to the heavens; who created all this ? He who brings out the starry hosts one by one ,and calls them each by name. Because of His great power and mighty strength not one of them is missing.
That is incorrect.
"And God said,“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."

According to the very first page of your book the cosmos was created expressly and exclusively for man and his land's (not planet, because the Earth was essentially a big circular table) benefit.

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#1799 Aug 6, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm showing respect to you. Just as I generally capitalize the word Christian and other religions. It is standard English usage and a bit of respect should allow us to discuss these things without degenerating into abuse, and that is what I would prefer.
Don't worry, "wondering", I am not playing Pascal's Wager. I have made absolutely no attempt to hedge my bets, do not accept Jesus Christ or any other human as my prophet or Saviour, nor believe its my duty to worship any God. Just so that its clear, for the record. If your belief system is correct, I fully expect to be damned to hell.
The point being, of course, that I find your belief system about as believable as Santa Claus stories, and the second point being, even if I could persuade myself to believe it was true, there is no way I could persuade myself that it represented the system of either a just or merciful God anyway. Feel free to kowtow to a "loving tyrant", even if its just one of your imagination.
Respect to wondering? Harumph. I just do it because it's the literary convention.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#1800 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text>
And where does the bible postulate an immovable earth that is at the centre of the universe ? Where?
Well, let your fellow creationist MegaSage007 answer the question:
.( "IT - IS - NOT - MOVING!"). There is even Fernieboy on the video doing experiments demonstrating it.

Note the bible quotes at 1:30.
Who ARE WE to dispute his authority of the bible.

Since: May 14

Europe

#1801 Aug 6, 2014
ChromiuMan wrote:
<quoted text>
That is incorrect.
"And God said,“Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth.” And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the vault of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day."
According to the very first page of your book the cosmos was created expressly and exclusively for man and his land's (not planet, because the Earth was essentially a big circular table) benefit.
I do not see anywhere in your bible quote where its insinuated that the cosmos was made for man. I see a report of what God did. Maybe you could pinpoint the specific verse for me.
And this idea of a big circular table, where do you get it from?

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#1802 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text> Though i know the depth of this truth is beyond your reach i will give you an overview. Lucifer is in total control of this planet using a variety of very elaborate instruments to enslave the human mind and distract him from the business of reconnecting with his creator; Illicit sex , Monetary economy, false religion (Pseudochristianity, Islam, Budhism Hinduism etc) entertainment industry, politics, warfare , and others. Using these levers of control he has held virtually all men by the balls. Jesus called it slavery. And so He came to set those who are willing free. He acknowledged throughout scripture that those who will be rescued from this slavery are few though He will get His targeted number.Like i said theres lots of foundational info that you people need to have for the pieces to fall into place satisfactorily.
Short summary of your post: "Lucifer exists and he is in total control of the planet, using a variety of tools to accomplish to mentally fuck all people into slavery and withhold them form Jebus the Lord".

Let's have a look what my questions were again:
1. Why such a very easy and simple question only be answered by the spiritually rich?
2. What lots of foundational info do we miss then? You seem to be one of those spiritually rich, assessed by your wise and rich words, so explain please.
3. No, really let us know why all those other religions are false, instruments of deceit and control of the masses.

WHICH question does your post answer?
NONE of the questions have been answered. You only jerked off, opening the floodgates of your troubled mind, letting out all the spill.

BTW you accidentally didn't happen to have copycatted your text form some Islamic website?
There you can read the very same crap.

Could you please at least TRY to answer the questions, please?

“See how you are?”

Level 5

Since: Jul 12

Earth

#1803 Aug 6, 2014
Kenedy njoroge wrote:
<quoted text>I do not see anywhere in your bible quote where its insinuated that the cosmos was made for man. I see a report of what God did. Maybe you could pinpoint the specific verse for me.
And this idea of a big circular table, where do you get it from?
Its pretty goddam clear. I can't comprehend it for the incapable or unwilling.

Your Bible says the Earth is flat, round and supported by pillars. Add some greensward and you've got a right proper poker table of godly dimensions.

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