Isaiah 40:45 the earth is a circle that hangs upon nothingness.'' hebrews didnt have a word for sphere, so they had to write down what was revealed to them the best they could. Get over it, the bible doesnt say its flat..thats just atheist misinterperetation out of sure anxiety that they had something on the bible, more reading of what they wanna hear, never coming to truth. Becareful RoNoHo, it maybe you to strip naked and go nuts next time.<quoted text>
The buy-bull testifies that the earth is flat. The only way that cut's like a sword is by causing you pain from laughing.
In this Feb. 7, 2012, file photo, President Barack Obama shakes hands with Bill Nye during an event in the East Room of the White House in Washington.Full Story
#147 Oct 4, 2012
#148 Oct 4, 2012
True Origin archive: Does the bible say the earth is flat? That goofy seely guy is just as I said, over anxious to disprove god, so he makes up his own interperetation of the scriptures, when there is only gods...the bible cross references its self, you have but to check scripture to assure other scripture, even though the connection may span from exodus to acts. Its still there. So believe the word of man, go ahead and think ''man'' has all the answers, go on and curse god, but your blatant lies and nit picking scripture and ''assuming'' will never ever shake my faith in the lord. Bible prophecy is happening and you atheists give Bullcrap,excuse after bullcrap excuse....REPENT AMERICA!!! For we will fall in one hour! Meaning it will come so fast we wont beable to prepare phsically, however with Yeshua The Christ as your savior you are redeemed spiritually! Get saved, get saved, get saved!!! Amen!
#149 Oct 4, 2012
This would be a LIE!
The Hebrew word for sphere or ball is Dur or Duwr and, surprise surprise, it is used in the Bible:
Isaiah 22:18 And roll you tightly like a ball, To be cast into a vast country ; There you will die And there your splendid chariots will be, You shame of your master's house.
IOW, the ancient Hebrews were quite familiar with the concept of a sphere. Even more telling that they NEVER used the word Dur (Duwr) to describe the Earth.
“ The Lord of delirious minds.”
Since: Dec 10
#150 Oct 4, 2012
Actually if you could read with comprehension , you would see I didn't call you ignoramus.
I said the angel of ignoramus must have visited you.
But it was you saying vile things about a person you had never met.
You cannot substantiate what you said. Not that it really matters , except you were exhibiting the no true Scotsman fallacy.
#151 Oct 4, 2012
The Bible’s flat earth/solid sky dome universe
>>>>>The Bible’s flat earth
In the Bible the earth is a round flat object with ends and which is immovable and set on pillars.
Here God is imagined to draw a circle on the face of the waters to make the earth.
(Prov 8:26-27 NRSV) when he had not yet made earth and fields, or the world’s first bits of soil. When he established the heavens, I was there, when he drew a circle on the face of the deep,
A circle is of course a flat round object. Some would say that the ancient Hebrews had no word for sphere so they used circle ("chug"), but that is not true. There is a Hebrew word for ball used in the bible ("dur"). A flat round earth was intuitive to these primitive people. If you picture yourself in their place, it would not be too hard to imagine the earth as being round and flat as you turn around to trace the outline of the horizon where the sky seems to meet the earth.
Here God is imagined to sit above the circle of the earth looking down on it’s inhabitants who are small like grasshoppers.
(Isa 40:22 NRSV) It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to live in;
Again a circle is a flat two dimensional object and there was a Hebrew word for ball which would have been more appropriate if the author would have been aware of the earth’s spherical nature.
Here the author of Daniel writes of a dream of Nebuchadnezzar where a tree grows at the "center" of the earth. Assuming that the tree grew on the surface, this is most certainly the center of a flat earth as a spherical earth would have no center on it’s surface. Also notice that the tree grew so tall it’s top reached heaven and was visible to the "ends of the earth". So these verses indicate that Nebuchadnezzar and the author of Daniel pictured a flat earth as everyone else did in their time.
(Dan 4:10-11 NRSV) Upon my bed this is what I saw; there was a tree at the center of the earth, and its height was great. The tree grew great and strong, its top reached to heaven, and it was visible to the ends of the whole earth.
Here it is possible that this gospel author still imagined a flat earth as Jesus is able to see all the kingdoms of the world from a high mountain. This would not be possible on a spherical earth.
(Mat 4:8 NRSV) Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor;
Here the author of Job imagines that God could take the edges of the earth and shake the wicked out of it.
(Job 38:13 NIV) that it might take the earth by the edges and shake the wicked out of it?
Here the author of Job is saying something is longer than the earth. A flat earth with ends could be compared for length, but longer has no meaning for a spherical earth.
(Job 11:9 NRSV) Its measure is longer than the earth, and broader than the sea.
One end of a flat earth to the other end of a flat earth is mentioned here (a spherical earth had no ends).
(Deu 13:7 NRSV) any of the gods of the peoples that are around you, whether near you or far away from you, from one end of the earth to the other,
Again, some would say that the ends of the earth is not be taken literally and that would be true today, but the phrase is leftover from when people used to really believe the earth had ends, which was the case for the ancient Hebrews and most everyone else at that time.
Here is a few more verses that mention the ends of the earth
Deu 28:49, Deu 28:64, Deu 33:17, 1 Sam 2:10, Job 1:7, Job 28:24, Job 37:3, Psa 2:8, Psa 19:4, Psa 22:27, Psa 33:13, Psa 33:14, Psa 48:10, Psa 59:13, Psa 61:2, Psa 65:5, Psa 72:8
#152 Oct 4, 2012
>>>>The Bible’s immovable earth set on pillars
Here the earth is imagined to be set on pillars and immovable.
(Psa 93:1 NRSV)… He has established the world; it shall never be moved;
(1 Sam 2:8 NRSV) For the pillars of the earth are the Lord’s, and on them he has set the world.
(Isa 24:18 NRSV) or the windows of heaven are opened, and the foundations of the earth tremble.
>>>>>The Bible’s solid sky dome
Here God is imagined to create a solid sky dome that separates the waters into two parts.
One would become the oceans and the other would remain above the solid sky dome to provide an explanation of where water came from to cause clouds and rain in the absence of the knowledge of evaporation.
(Gen 1:6-7 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be a dome in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters."
So God made the dome and separated the waters that were under the dome from the waters that were above the dome. And it was so.
Here is another verse which mentions the water above the sky dome.
(Psa 148:4 NRSV) Praise him, you highest heavens, and you waters above the heavens!
Here celestial bodies are attached to this sky dome.
(Gen 1:14-17 NRSV) And God said, "Let there be lights in the dome of the sky to separate the day from the night; and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years, and let them be lights in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth." And it was so. God made the two great lights–the greater light to rule the day and the lesser light to rule the night–and the stars.
God set them in the dome of the sky to give light upon the earth,
Notice that the lights, the Sun, the Moon, and the stars are set inside the sky dome.
Here it is mentioned that the sky dome is hard.
(Job 37:18 NRSV) Can you, like him, spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
(Prov 8:28 NRSV) when he made firm the skies above,…
God is imagined to walk on top of the sky dome.
(Job 22:14 NRSV) Thick clouds enwrap him, so that he does not see, and he walks on the dome of heaven.’
The sky is imagined as something that has to open to let things pass through it
Here notice that heaven has to be "opened" for things to pass through, things in and above heaven to be seen, and for rainwater to come through. One would think that would not be necessary unless the sky was imagined to be solid. Some would say that this was not be taken literally, but the sky was imagined to be solid in most cultures for over 1500 years after the last books of the bible were written.
(John 1:51 NRSV) And he said to him, "Very truly, I tell you, you will see heaven opened and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."
(Acts 10:11 NRSV) He saw the heaven opened and something like a large sheet coming down, being lowered to the ground by its four corners.
(Acts 7:56 NRSV) "Look," he said, "I see the heavens opened and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God!"
(Mat 3:16-17 NRSV) And when Jesus had been baptized, just as he came up from the water, suddenly the heavens were opened to him and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, the Beloved, with whom I am well pleased."
(2 Chr 6:26 NRSV) "When heaven (same Hebrew word as sky) is shut up and there is no rain because…
(Psa 78:23 NRSV) Yet he commanded the skies above, and opened the doors of heaven (same Hebrew word as sky);
(Mal 3:10 NRSV) Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, so that there may be food in my house, and thus put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts; see if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you an overflowing blessing.(talking about rain for crops)
#153 Oct 4, 2012
>>>>Joshua commands the Sun to stand still in the sky
Here Joshua was imagined to have commanded the Sun and the Moon to stand still over particular geographic locations like a helicopter could be imagined to hover over a particular mountain or valley as if the Sun and the Moon were only a few miles high instead of 93 million (Sun) and 1/4 million (Moon) miles away. To the author the Sun and the Moon were attached to a rotating solid sky dome, just a few miles above his head.
(Josh 10:12-13 NRSV) On the day when the LORD gave the Amorites over to the Israelites, Joshua spoke to the LORD; and he said in the sight of Israel, "Sun, stand still at Gibeon, and Moon, in the valley of Aijalon."
And the sun stood still, and the moon stopped, until the nation took vengeance on their enemies. Is this not written in the Book of Jashar? The sun stopped in midheaven, and did not hurry to set for about a whole day.
>>>>>Jesus probably saw the universe the same way everyone else did in his day
Here it is indicated that Jesus himself pictured the stars as objects that could fall to the earth which would seem reasonable if he pictured the stars as little lights attached to a solid sky dome just a few miles up like everyone else in his day.
Instead, apparently unknown to Jesus, stars are objects typically millions of times larger than the earth and unimaginably distant.
(Mark 13:24-25 NRSV) "But in those days, after that suffering, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will be falling from heaven, and the powers in the heavens will be shaken.
Since: Apr 11
#154 Oct 4, 2012
Thanks for the info.
I call BS on Mormonism in general.:)
Since: Apr 11
#155 Oct 4, 2012
A circle is flat.
Well, surely an all powerful god could have given them one...
Or they could have said it was shaped like a grape, or whatever.
Yes it does. A circle if flat. And Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain and shows him all the kingdoms of earth. That would only be possible if the earth were flat.
The buy-bull is Bronze Age myth and superstition. I wish more people would read it, really read it. We'd have more atheists.
Since: Apr 11
#156 Oct 4, 2012
Name one actual buy-bull prophecy that is happening. And don't bother with the "there will be wars and disease" crap. I can predict that.
#157 Oct 4, 2012
I found it interesting that Karl Marx was a born again Christian.
Karl Marx wrote the “Unity of believers in Christ according to the Gospel of John 15:1-14:
This is what Karl Marx wrote “Union with Christ is found in a close and living fellowship with Him and in the fact that we always have Him before our eyes and in our hearts. And at the same time that we are possessed by the greatest love of Him, we direct our hearts to our brothers, with whom He bound us closely, and for whom He sacrificed Himself.”
“Therefore, unity with Christ internally exalts, comforts in trials, and makes the heart open to love people, not because of our pride or thirst for fame, but because of Christ.”
In a poem, Karl Marx wrote:
I have lost heaven,
And know that for sure.
My soul, once faithful to God,
Now is destined for hell.
#158 Oct 4, 2012
wonder why he wrote that??
#159 Oct 4, 2012
Because all his forefathers were Jewish Rabbis and his father became a Christian, so Karl was adopted into the Christian faith.
Karls moms family owned the Phillips electronics corporation, but Karl had mixed feeling concerning wealth and capitalism and the struggle of the poor. So Karl had an idea to restrain religion so he could futher the goals his philosophy.
#160 Oct 4, 2012
Have you every read the book, "Evidence that demands a verdict" by Josh McDowell or his other book "Evidence for Christianity". Off the top of my memory I will name a few evidences:
- There are too many old testament predictions of Jesus that came true to deny that Jesus was the Messiah - God coming in flesh.
- There are many cities, peoples, and customs presented in the Bible that the skeptics have criticized only to find the Bible to be true. Many years there was no record of David but low and behold they found a sign with the inscription - The City of David.
- Archaeologists have used the Bible as a guide to excavate cities.
- The Bible is a book that has the most evidence for it from a textual criticism point of view. We can be most confident that Jesus lived and walked on earth and said the things written down in it.
- There are millions of people like myself who will attest to the fact they have a relation with God and pray and talk to Him.
I could go on and on.
Since: Sep 08
#161 Oct 4, 2012
Johnny, there is evidence that many of the predictions that "came true" under Jesus were written after the fact. For example there was no prediction of a virgin birth. That was a misinterpretation of old scripture by the writers of the gospels. The prediction was that his mother would be a young woman, not a virgin. When something is claimed to be a prediction come true when there was no such prediction that tips your hand a bit. Also there was no reason for Joseph to go to Jerusalem at the stated time. The census of that area did not occur until Jesus was at least ten years old. That shows that the expostfacto writers not only got their translation wrong, it also got the well recorded history wrong.
I could go on and on.
Since: Sep 07
#162 Oct 4, 2012
Here's the thing about prophecies. In order for them to actually "come true", they can't be known to the people trying to fill those roles.
Let's say there is a prophecy that the next President of the US will dance a jig at the Lincoln Memorial, and that people believe it.
Well, then Romney is definitely going to go dance a jig at the memorial, not because he is destined to win but because he wants people to think he is destined to win.
If Jesus knew about these prophecies (and how could he not) then wouldn't he just use it as a check list?
He would have had to fulfill the prophecies without knowledge or the ability to choose to fulfill them in order for them to really count.
The Bible was written by people in the Middle East and is set in the Middle East. Much of the Old Testament is historical record of the wars fought by the Jews.
However, simply because the book refers to places which exist (even places which people thought were fictional at one time) doesn't mean the rest of the book is true.
If you want to use this argument, then you have to accept the fact that Troy was long thought to be a mythological city and that it was found using clues in the Iliad therefore Poseidon, the god of the ocean, who is directly mentioned in the Iliad must also be true.
See how that becomes a problem for you?
This is a nonsense statement. You are saying that the Bible is true because the Bible presents itself as being true, therefore Jesus was real.
Harry Potter is presented as being real in the Harry Potter series, he's not real.
Internal consistency is not a hallmark of validity even though inconsistency is evidence against validity.
There are millions of Hindus who can say the exact same thing about their gods.
The problem for you is this:
You religion claims to be the only true one, yet this evidence is no better or worse than the evidence for the hundreds of other religions which existed before and still exist currently, which contradict you view point.
Let me run a hypothetical by you.
You are Christian. You were raised Christian.
Would you be Christian if you were raised Hindu?
Do you think how you were raised has more to do with it than any specific evidence within the mythology?
Since: Sep 07
#163 Oct 4, 2012
Not to mention the fact that Mary wasn't a virgin.
She was MARRIED to Joseph. Jewish tradition (hell, EVERY cultures tradition) is to consummate the marriage the night of the wedding.
#164 Oct 4, 2012
VERY well said!
do you believe how AFRAID you sound by calling it "child abuse" and screaming so shrill about something you claim can't even harm you? you sound like a child screaming a gun is pointed at you and it's a water pistol.
i'm not even concerned with "creationism" and the controversy, the bottom line is let each person choose for themself - THAT is the problem with the socalled science-side people in this debate - they flat out aren't willing to let anyone else even speak up.
and human evolution from apes is the most ridiculously totally unproven "theory" that has ever existed; the fact you people are so vicious in your attacks has honestly made me much more suspicious of what your root source here is... maybe you are infact just satanists, you seem overly upset at allowing others freedom to believe as they wish.
as for science, it not only isn't against God, science is the reverse-engineering of what God did. science is the study of God.
it's not creationists trying to shut your mouths, it's not creationists saying science is bad; it's only you people trying to spread atheism and trying to shut out any voice with a different opinion. fking fascist, or more likely, satanist.
what are you so afraid of? i think i now know. Judgement is coming, hey good luck!
Since: Sep 07
#165 Oct 5, 2012
You are missing the point entirely.
Education isn't about freedom of choice. You don't get to choose which number is between 6 and 8. You don't get to choose which President was in office during the Civil War. You don't get to choose which Continent is the largest.
The only "choice" involved here is whether or not you, as a religious person, send your kid to public school or teach them at home.
If you send them to public school, they are going to get an education based on the science. They can then use that to go on to a job in medicine.
If you teach them at home, they aren't going to have a solid grasp of biology. They can still go on to get a job, but it won't be in medicine, it will be fixing cars or something.
Now, we need car mechanics, don't get me wrong. If that's the most you think your child is capable of achieving, by all means teach them Creationism.
However, if you think your child MIGHT want a job which has something to do with any field even related to science, they need to understand science.
We, as a country, are falling behind the rest of the world because people want to choose their religious claims over the scientific facts. Two thousand years of praying to Jesus didn't put a man on the moon. Science did.
That statement has so many errors in it it boggles the mind.
Humans ARE apes.
Evolution is more "proven" than gravity.
You claim that evolution is "ridiculous" and in it's place you offer magic. You need to look up "ridiculous" in the dictionary.
Believe what you want, just don't deny children an education.
Also, the entire concept of Satan is inconsistent with your religion. How could there be a Satan if God is the one and only true power? How could there be a hell, if God is all love and forgiveness? What would be the purpose of eternal torture? What loving God would allow endless suffering with no end goal at all?
Completely invalid theology.
Why is it that for 2000 years you Christians have been threatening "Judgement is coming!"?
First of all, after you've been wrong 2000X in a row, you gotta stop and ask yourself what you're doing.
Second, if you HONESTLY believed that judgement was coming, would you own a computer? Would you own a house?
If you HONESTLY believed, why wouldn't you sell everything you own, go to Africa and help the needy 24/7?
THAT is what I would do if I HONESTLY thought that a Jewish Wizard was going to come down and kill everyone and then only reward those that proved themselves to be worthy.
The Bible is quite clear on wealth. You may not have Romney money, but I guarentee you, you are extremely rich compared to the children living in garbage dumps in the 3rd world.
So, put up or shut up. Do you REALLY believe?
#166 Oct 5, 2012
Nuggin, you have never looked at the evidence. I have never met a criticism of christianity that did not have an answer. I say this boldly because I have looked at many of them - and never found ONE that held any water! No other religion compares to Christianity on the number of historical manuscripts that back up the religion.
There are over 60 prophecies that Jesus fulfilled. These weren't the kind that were easily just made up.
The fact that Christianity has thousands of manuscripts to back it up is significant - no other religion has as many (ignoring Judaism). That IS significant. The historical evidence is staggering. No other religion compares.
Yes, I was raised a Christian but I would dump it if I thought it untrue!
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