Expelled: a Movie that Exposes the Startling Bias against Intelligent Design

[charlieb1950]

I see TERESA is a very smart woman.Where is ted from OHIO?Why is he not here?He must be afraid of her.ted OH ted ,where are you?

[Wayne]

Feklahr wrote:

<quoted text>
Well, what does the "all-knowing" Bible say? Come on! YOU ARE OUR RESIDENT F**KING EXPERT ON THIS CRAP!

Now now Fekl, you're letting your kindergarten side show through again! lol

[Feklahr]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Now now Fekl, you're letting your kindergarten side show through again! lol

I wasn't aware I had ever exposed any more maturity that that.

[Primewonk]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Do we owe discovering new planets and stars to evolution?

We don't discover "new" planets and stars. Remember, a light year is a very large distance. Anything "new" we see first forming would have actually formed millions/billions of years ago. Our ability to detect, visualize, analyze, observe, etc. objects in space is the result of men and women of science designing, theorizing, constructing, utilizing, equipment. They created these instruments by using their brains, and their hands. They used science to do this. After all, if they used your bible, they couldn't even roll a cylinder correctly - kinda hard to calculate the proper circumference if you use 3 as your value for pi.

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Do we owe discovering new cures for diseases to evolution?

Yep. New cures, new treatments, new discoveries. You might want to investigate how evolution is affecting malaria and sickle cell disease. You might want to investigate how evolution is changing lactose tolerance. Heck you might just want to get a new flu shot next fall, or not use plain old penicillin nect time you get a bacterial infection.

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Do we owe our very life to evolution?

Well, individually, no, that is courtesy of our mothers and fathers. As a species, yes.

[Rob]

oh god
the charlie and wayne tag team duo's begun

[humor me here]

Vincent VanSlyke wrote:

<quoted text>
What's wrong with being honest and saying "I don't know"? Nobody knows, that's the big mystery. Automatically defaulting to the predominant religion in my culture doesn't make sense to me because all organized religions are man-made. There's nonsense in every organized religion's dogma, why assume that you have to choose any of them?

And I agree. IF you are looking for the answers to the questions, THEN look for a "religion" that appeals to your needs. Or not. I chose my particular church because it answered 95% of my questions. But that is me. I'm not really big on "Mysteries of God" garbage. I had a church leader (note I leave sect identification out of this) tell me that we "we weren't supposed to know" about one of my particularly probing questions. I then knew if HE didn't know the answer, maybe he just wasn't in the IN crowd, and maybe I needed to find the IN crowd, so to speak.

THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH. And as much as MY church is false (I'm sure there's little "myths" here and there) it is WRONG.

But for the MOST part I am very satisfied.

And I agree with your post entirely.

[humor me here]

Primewonk wrote:

<quoted text>
And it is because of those types of questions that religion and the idea of gods probably evolved in early man. A way to explain things they had no answer for. A way to make an extremely hard life a little more comforting. A way to make it easier to control the tribe. A way to make it easier to justify going over the next hill and killing the other tribe.
<quoted text>

And I almost totally agree with your post, as well. We must always be extremely careful of the following statements:

"Extreme times call for extreme measures..."
"If you believe, you must obey..."
"Shun the unbelievers...[sorry, I had to throw that in] LOL"

When religion causes us to break down civility or causes us to do things we normally would find abhorrent, it is wrong.

In the Old Testament, instances are found where the Israelites were told to kill everyone, even the animals. I DON'T KNOW why, but the record says they were. Obviously, we don't live by that today. If the record is true they must have lived with considerably different values.

But not today.

[TedHOhio]

TheGavin wrote:

<quoted text>
You're viewing evolution as some deity or "prescence"...why would you do that? It's just a portion of science that deals with the biological processes that explain change over time, within our biology...nothing more.
As to your questions, which seemed to imply (by the manner in which you asked them) evolution is some "superior" something or other...
1. "Do we owe discovering new planets and stars to evolution?" No, that would probably be things like cosmology, astronomy, physics, and astrophysics.
2. "Do we owe discovering new cures for diseases to evolution?" Actually, our current understanding of evolution has been a huge help within cancer research, how we view pathogens (bacteria and viruses), understanding genetic disorders and tracing their origins, so...yes.
3. "Do we owe our very life to evolution?" No, I think to say we OWE evolution our very life, is somewhat overly dramatic, don't you? If you mean did evolutionary processes have a hand with who we are today, from a scientific standpoint? Yes.

I agree! In a way we do owe our life to the ability to evolve. If it weren't for evolution the human race would not be here.

Now Wayne, I know you still have trouble understanding the difference between fact and theory, so let me be plainer. The FACT of evolution is why we are even here. If our ancestors hadn't evolved the highest level of life on this planet would probably be self-replicating molecules. No complexity, no cellular creatures, and certainly not homo sapiens. So you can thank heaven for Evolution or you wouldn't even be here to whine about the Theory of Evolution.(pun intended).

[Wayne]

humor me here wrote:

<quoted text>
And I almost totally agree with your post, as well. We must always be extremely careful of the following statements:
"Extreme times call for extreme measures..."
"If you believe, you must obey..."
"Shun the unbelievers...[sorry, I had to throw that in] LOL"
When religion causes us to break down civility or causes us to do things we normally would find abhorrent, it is wrong.
In the Old Testament, instances are found where the Israelites were told to kill everyone, even the animals. I DON'T KNOW why, but the record says they were. Obviously, we don't live by that today. If the record is true they must have lived with considerably different values.
But not today.

Because they were evil before God and deserved to be destroyed. What's so hard about understanding that?

[Wayne]

TedHOhio wrote:

<quoted text>
I agree! In a way we do owe our life to the ability to evolve. If it weren't for evolution the human race would not be here.
Now Wayne, I know you still have trouble understanding the difference between fact and theory, so let me be plainer. The FACT of evolution is why we are even here. If our ancestors hadn't evolved the highest level of life on this planet would probably be self-replicating molecules. No complexity, no cellular creatures, and certainly not homo sapiens. So you can thank heaven for Evolution or you wouldn't even be here to whine about the Theory of Evolution.(pun intended).

The earth could very well be 6 or whatever billion years old. The human race was CREATED though only around 15-20 thousand years ago. AS WE ARE NOW.

[Feklahr]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
The earth could very well be 6 or whatever billion years old. The human race was CREATED though only around 15-20 thousand years ago. AS WE ARE NOW.

BONG!!!!!!!!!!

Try again.

[Wayne]

TheGavin wrote:

<quoted text>
You're viewing evolution as some deity or "prescence"...why would you do that? It's just a portion of science that deals with the biological processes that explain change over time, within our biology...nothing more.
As to your questions, which seemed to imply (by the manner in which you asked them) evolution is some "superior" something or other...
1. "Do we owe discovering new planets and stars to evolution?" No, that would probably be things like cosmology, astronomy, physics, and astrophysics.
2. "Do we owe discovering new cures for diseases to evolution?" Actually, our current understanding of evolution has been a huge help within cancer research, how we view pathogens (bacteria and viruses), understanding genetic disorders and tracing their origins, so...yes.
3. "Do we owe our very life to evolution?" No, I think to say we OWE evolution our very life, is somewhat overly dramatic, don't you? If you mean did evolutionary processes have a hand with who we are today, from a scientific standpoint? Yes.

You can't give different answers to this question, only yes or no. If we evolved ( which we didn't) then we owe EVERYTHNG to evolution. If we DIDN'T evolve (which we didn't) then we owe EVERYTHING to our Creator.

[Primewonk]

humor me here wrote:

<quoted text>
And I almost totally agree with your post, as well. We must always be extremely careful of the following statements:
"Extreme times call for extreme measures..."
"If you believe, you must obey..."
"Shun the unbelievers...[sorry, I had to throw that in] LOL"
When religion causes us to break down civility or causes us to do things we normally would find abhorrent, it is wrong.
In the Old Testament, instances are found where the Israelites were told to kill everyone, even the animals. I DON'T KNOW why, but the record says they were. Obviously, we don't live by that today. If the record is true they must have lived with considerably different values.
But not today.

EXACTLY! And that is one of the problems with folks like me get accused of being amoral by religious fundies. They assume that morality is static. Morals are dynamic, changing both over culture and over time. Sadly, all too often they change way too slowly.

[Primewonk]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Because they were evil before God and deserved to be destroyed. What's so hard about understanding that?

So Wayne, all the little babies were evil and deserved to have their heads bashed against the rocks? But for some strange reason, the young virgin girls were not quite as evil as the babies? Cause you got to keep those for sex slaves. Yep, nice god you worship there.

[Primewonk]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
The earth could very well be 6 or whatever billion years old. The human race was CREATED though only around 15-20 thousand years ago. AS WE ARE NOW.

So the evidence we have that modern humans have been around for at least 100,000 years is wrong? Or is it that you have some scientific evidence to support your contentions, but you haven't posted it yet for some reason?

[TedHOhio]

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>You make a lot of assumptions. I believe God created the world and life evolved. It's your attitude that is abrasive.
Now I do not agree with Wayne or his tactics, but he does not come across as arrogant. But I do appreciate you bringing my name up needlessly. Oh wait, you are on higher ground right!

Since you were the one commenting on my post, and not commenting when Wayne posts things like "You're nothing but a stupid jackass.", your name wasn't brought up needlessly -- you volunteered when you decided you were the arbitrator of the posts. If you find my personality abrasive, fine. After so many "You're nothing but a stupid jackass." posts by folks like Wayne, I think I can be as abrasive as I want. You can continue to be Wayne's apologetic supporter, because apparently speaking the truth is abrasive, yet referring to someone as a jackass without supporting the comment is OK in your book. Keep up the good work, Neph. Personally I find your attitude a bit hypocritical.

[TedHOhio]

Nephilim wrote:

<quoted text>Grow up dude.

Sorry Neph, Wayne is the one who granted himself the right to determine who is and who is not a Christian. Are you planning to spend your life supporting him?

[Vincent VanSlyke]

humor me here wrote:

<quoted text>
And I agree. IF you are looking for the answers to the questions, THEN look for a "religion" that appeals to your needs. Or not. I chose my particular church because it answered 95% of my questions. But that is me. I'm not really big on "Mysteries of God" garbage. I had a church leader (note I leave sect identification out of this) tell me that we "we weren't supposed to know" about one of my particularly probing questions. I then knew if HE didn't know the answer, maybe he just wasn't in the IN crowd, and maybe I needed to find the IN crowd, so to speak.
THERE IS NO RELIGION HIGHER THAN TRUTH. And as much as MY church is false (I'm sure there's little "myths" here and there) it is WRONG.
But for the MOST part I am very satisfied.
And I agree with your post entirely.

From one fellow hoosier to another, Amen brother.:D

I am like you in that truth matters most, and I'm not totally against organized religion because there is a lot of good that come from them. It's just some dogmatic parts of organized religion tend to cause confusion and division among people, and seek to obscure the truth in a lot cases.

[TedHOhio]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
Catholic upbringing??? That explains VOLUMES!!! lol

Hey Neph, just in case you missed it -- this is Wayne once again acting as the arbitrator of who or who is not a Christian. So get up on your Church of Wayne apologetics again. Your work is cut out for you!

[TedHOhio]

Wayne wrote:

<quoted text>
I'll type this real slow since you are slow in catching on. Just because science can't prove God created mankind doesn't mean He didn't. lol Did the light come on?

Hey Wayne, you need better glasses. It is not that science cannot prove God, it is that SCIENCE will never address the issue of God. God is outside the borders of what is and is not science. That's why they call is metaphysics, not physics. This has been stated to you how many different ways in the last month?

So your efforts to use God and the Bible to refute a scientific theory are also outside the borders! It is absurd and you keep making yourself, and your narrow version of religion, look pretty foolish.

So let me put this in even simpler terms, maybe even you can grasp the significance. Science will not prove nor disprove the existance of God nor any of the works attributed to him by any form of religion known to man -- even your narrow one. That being said it should also be said that Religion cannot nor should not address issues of science for the same reason. You cannot refute a scientific theory with the Bible just like you can't refute God with a scientific theory.

One of your many problems is that you only go halfway. You claim Science can't prove God, then you want to use God to disprove science. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Leave each area in it's bailiwick. You keep your religion out of the science classroom and I will keep my science off your pulpit.

And yes Neph, I am being abrasive because being pleasant to Wayne didn't work weeks back, I have no reason to try now. He can react like and emotional cripple again and refuse to listen to what I said, but that doesn't make what I said less valid. Couching it in pleasantries blows past him even faster.