Modern YEC is Not An Aberration of Traditional Christianity, Part Two [EvolutionBlog]

Jul 11, 2014 Full story: ScienceBlogs 130

As it happens, the previous post was mostly a digression from what I really wanted to discuss.

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Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#1 Jul 18, 2014
The conclusions of the article:

1. The young earth interpretation of Genesis was mainstream to the point of being dominant among both lay people and scholars for most of Christian history.
2. The claim that the Genesis text is just obviously not meant to be taken literally is false. It was not at all obvious to virtually anyone who read these texts, including great scholars.
3. Likewise, the claim that the factuality of the stories was of only secondary importance to Christians is just false.
4. Finally, modern YEC’s did not arrive at their conclusions by inventing new hermeneutical principles or by going in a direction orthogonal to traditional Christianity. Both their general attitude toward interpreting the Bible and their specific conclusions would have been entirely mainstream through much of Christian history.

I agree.
Historically this is correct.
That is exactly one of the reasons (not the only) that I am not a Christian any more.

Christianity breathes bronze age mythology.

On the other hand, one could day that Christianity kept abreast of the times. But to accomplish this, it needs to abandon the notion that the bible is the inerrant word of god to allow the bible not to be interpreted literally.

But that raises the question what else exactly to adhere to religiously.
What exactly was the word of god then to rely upon.

On the other hand there has been produced such a caboodle and crap by people adhering to the bible as the literal word of god that it is even scientifically proven not to be the word of god (would god create an universe and life that contradicts the things we observe then?)

The first scientists generally all were believers and creationists for the matter. Even Darwin was in the greater part of his life.
All those scientists strived to reveal the wonders of god's creation.
The first geologists actively were looking for evidence of Noah's deluge.
Even the inventor of the Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaître, was a priest.

But all those "creationist" scientists found something completely different. The geologists found a total lack of evidence for the Biblical deluge. They also found fossil stratification, which inspired Darwin to evolution theory.

The history of science reveals that sticking your head into the old bronze age mythology of the bible is about the worst thing to do when you want to reveal "the wonders of god's creation". You better start to LOOK around and OBSERVE.

I ended up arguing to myself that it makes no sense to follow the word of god that did not seem to be the word of god after all.

I also ended up concluding that all believers are atheists because they disbelieve any of the 4,900 or so gods other believers came up with in the course of history. I concluded that I just disbelieve one MORE god.
In Six Days

Preston, UK

#2 Jul 21, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
The conclusions of the article:
1. The young earth interpretation of Genesis was mainstream to the point of being dominant among both lay people and scholars for most of Christian history.
2. The claim that the Genesis text is just obviously not meant to be taken literally is false. It was not at all obvious to virtually anyone who read these texts, including great scholars.
3. Likewise, the claim that the factuality of the stories was of only secondary importance to Christians is just false.
4. Finally, modern YEC’s did not arrive at their conclusions by inventing new hermeneutical principles or by going in a direction orthogonal to traditional Christianity. Both their general attitude toward interpreting the Bible and their specific conclusions would have been entirely mainstream through much of Christian history.
I agree.
Historically this is correct.
That is exactly one of the reasons (not the only) that I am not a Christian any more.
Christianity breathes bronze age mythology.
On the other hand, one could day that Christianity kept abreast of the times. But to accomplish this, it needs to abandon the notion that the bible is the inerrant word of god to allow the bible not to be interpreted literally.
But that raises the question what else exactly to adhere to religiously.
What exactly was the word of god then to rely upon.
On the other hand there has been produced such a caboodle and crap by people adhering to the bible as the literal word of god that it is even scientifically proven not to be the word of god (would god create an universe and life that contradicts the things we observe then?)
The first scientists generally all were believers and creationists for the matter. Even Darwin was in the greater part of his life.
All those scientists strived to reveal the wonders of god's creation.
The first geologists actively were looking for evidence of Noah's deluge.
Even the inventor of the Big Bang theory, Georges Lemaître, was a priest.
But all those "creationist" scientists found something completely different. The geologists found a total lack of evidence for the Biblical deluge. They also found fossil stratification, which inspired Darwin to evolution theory.
The history of science reveals that sticking your head into the old bronze age mythology of the bible is about the worst thing to do when you want to reveal "the wonders of god's creation". You better start to LOOK around and OBSERVE.
I ended up arguing to myself that it makes no sense to follow the word of god that did not seem to be the word of god after all.
I also ended up concluding that all believers are atheists because they disbelieve any of the 4,900 or so gods other believers came up with in the course of history. I concluded that I just disbelieve one MORE god.
I have yet to read a piece so uninformed and so thoughtless.

Bronze Age? Bullocks! Truth is ageless, OK. So repent now of the idiocy that tells you "Bronze Age" ideas are false because they are ancient. 4+4=6 is pre-"Bronze-Age" & still 100% true and there never was a bronze age by the way. It's a myth. In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth remains as true today as it ever was. It wasn't the Big Bang, it was God. He did in six literal days. 24hours.

Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses. Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &, like Peter said there are more & more scoffers today. The new scoffers are called Evolutionists masquerading as scientists. They believe their own lies otherwise known as lusting after their own flesh.

Finally there is one name for all the 4900 gods you describe. Demons.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#3 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>I have yet to read a piece so uninformed and so thoughtless.

Bronze Age? Bullocks! Truth is ageless, OK. So repent now of the idiocy that tells you "Bronze Age" ideas are false because they are ancient. 4+4=6 is pre-"Bronze-Age" & still 100% true and there never was a bronze age by the way. It's a myth. In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth remains as true today as it ever was. It wasn't the Big Bang, it was God. He did in six literal days. 24hours.

Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses. Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &, like Peter said there are more & more scoffers today. The new scoffers are called Evolutionists masquerading as scientists. They believe their own lies otherwise known as lusting after their own flesh.

Finally there is one name for all the 4900 gods you describe. Demons.
"4+4=6 is pre-"Bronze-Age" & still 100% true and there never was a bronze age by the way. It's a myth. "

Congratulations!

You managed to sum up the idiocy of fundimentalism in two short sentances.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#4 Jul 21, 2014
...mind you the REST of your post is equally mind-numbingly hilarious!

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#5 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
I have yet to read a piece so uninformed and so thoughtless.
Bronze Age? Bullocks! Truth is ageless, OK. So repent now of the idiocy that tells you "Bronze Age" ideas are false because they are ancient. 4+4=6 is pre-"Bronze-Age" & still 100% true and there never was a bronze age by the way. It's a myth. In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth remains as true today as it ever was. It wasn't the Big Bang, it was God. He did in six literal days. 24hours.
Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses. Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &, like Peter said there are more & more scoffers today. The new scoffers are called Evolutionists masquerading as scientists. They believe their own lies otherwise known as lusting after their own flesh.
Finally there is one name for all the 4900 gods you describe. Demons.
WHAT A CABOODLE. Terrible.
Guess WHAT all those other religions with their 4900 gods say about YOUR god?
"DEMON". You are going to tell me that YOU are right and the very 5,6 BILLION people living in other cultures ALL were to wrong and worshipping demons? YOU MUST BE KIDDING.

Do me a favour: start a debate with representatives of the other 4900 religions and when you reached a verdict about the "REAL AND ONLY TRUE" god, let me know. That will spare us, I estimate, ages until the end of times from the endless tattles. BTW, don't start a religious war in the meantime.

"There is no bronze age". RIGHT. Off goes modern paleontology and archaeology.
"But all those observatio....." SHUT UP! there are no observations.
"Oh, bbbbut we all see here in the geologic...." SHUT up there is no geological record. Repent!
"Yes but we just call the age when people started to use bronze and invented writing and built the first citiiiii...." SHUT UP I said, there is no bronze age, REPENT!
"Uh....maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_age" ;. I SAID SHUT UP!

"Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses."
Seems to me that the ones that find those fossils, the paleontologists, have different opinions about that.

But this one I like. Let's go into this.
First of all, let me know the pertaining bible citations, WHERE and WHAT Mozes told us about the fossils.
Next, where can I find the scientific evidence of fossils supporting Mozes? Your source references please. Warning: by SCIENTISTS. Anyone without a degree in paleontology or geology will be discarded with any further ado. I will not even respond.

Prediction: the Great Dodging starts.

"Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &"

REALLY? ANY IDEA why ALL the experts on these matters, without ANY exception, the geologists, paleontologists and other earth scientists, just laugh the shit out of their pants reading this DECEIT? Or just shrug their shoulders and continue their daily business?
ANY IDEA?

Well, go to the next website: http://www.oldearth.org/stratigraphy.htm .
MIND the source: a creationist site.
There the geological record of the Grand Canyon has been described in painstakingly detail, 5 pages long.

Please tell me his conclusions.

Prediction:
1) you will NOT read it
2) you will still draw conclusions from NOT having read it.

I shall summarize the current state of affairs in modern paleontology and geology: it COMPLETELY and ENTIRELY DESTROYS your notions on the fossils, the age of the earth and the notion of the global flood. Not only because of lacking ANY evidence for it but ACTIVELY REFUTING it. ALL OF IT?

Do you understand this assessment?

And I KNOW because I have read the main literature on it.
AND YOU DIDN'T.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#6 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
I have yet to read a piece so uninformed and so thoughtless.
Bronze Age? Bullocks! Truth is ageless, OK. So repent now of the idiocy that tells you "Bronze Age" ideas are false because they are ancient. 4+4=6 is pre-"Bronze-Age" & still 100% true and there never was a bronze age by the way. It's a myth. In the beginning God created the heavens & the earth remains as true today as it ever was. It wasn't the Big Bang, it was God. He did in six literal days. 24hours.
Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses. Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &, like Peter said there are more & more scoffers today. The new scoffers are called Evolutionists masquerading as scientists. They believe their own lies otherwise known as lusting after their own flesh.
Finally there is one name for all the 4900 gods you describe. Demons.
WHAT A CABOODLE. Terrible.
Guess WHAT all those other religions with their 4900 gods say about YOUR god?
"DEMON". You are going to tell me that YOU are right and the very 5,6 BILLION people living in other cultures ALL were to wrong and worshipping demons? YOU MUST BE KIDDING.

Do me a favour: start a debate with representatives of the other 4900 religions and when you reached a verdict about the "REAL AND ONLY TRUE" god, let me know. That will spare us, I estimate, until the end of times from the endless tattles. BTW, don't start a religious war in the meantime.

"There is no bronze age". RIGHT. Off goes modern paleontology and archaeology.
"But all those observatio....." SHUT UP! there are no observations.
"Oh, bbbbut we all see here in the geologic...." SHUT up there is no geological record. Repent!
"Yes but we just call the age when people started to use bronze and invented writing and built the first citiiiii...." SHUT UP I said, there is no bronze age, REPENT!
"Uh....maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_age" ;. I SAID SHUT UP!

"Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses."
Seems to me that the ones that find those fossils, the paleontologists, have different opinions about that.

But this one I like. Let's go into this.
First of all, let me know the bible citations, WHERE and WHAT Mozes told us about the fossils.
Next, where can I find the scientific evidence of fossils supporting Mozes? Your source references please. Warning: by SCIENTISTS. Anyone without a degree in paleontology or geology will be discarded with any further ado. I will not even respond.

Prediction: the Great Dodging starts.

"Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &"

REALLY? ANY IDEA why ALL the experts on these matters, without ANY exception, the geologists, paleontologists and other earth scientists, just laugh the shit out of their pants reading this CRAP? Or just shrug their shoulders and continue their daily business?
ANY IDEA?

Well, to help you out, go to the next website: http://www.oldearth.org/stratigraphy.htm .
MIND the source: a creationist site.
There the geological record of the Grand Canyon has been described in painstakingly detail, 5 pages long.

Please tell me his conclusions.

Prediction:
1) you will NOT read it
2) you will still draw conclusions from NOT having read it.

I shall summarize the current state of affairs in modern paleontology and geology: it COMPLETELY and ENTIRELY DESTROYS your notions on the fossils, the age of the earth and the notion of the global flood. Not only because of lacking ANY evidence for it but ACTIVELY REFUTING it. ALL OF IT.

Do you understand this assessment?

And I KNOW because I have read the main literature on it.
WHILE YOU DIDN'T.
In Six Days

Preston, UK

#7 Jul 21, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
WHAT A CABOODLE. Terrible.
Guess WHAT all those other religions with their 4900 gods say about YOUR god?
"DEMON". You are going to tell me that YOU are right and the very 5,6 BILLION people living in other cultures ALL were to wrong and worshipping demons? YOU MUST BE KIDDING.
Do me a favour: start a debate with representatives of the other 4900 religions and when you reached a verdict about the "REAL AND ONLY TRUE" god, let me know. That will spare us, I estimate, ages until the end of times from the endless tattles.
"There is no bronze age". RIGHT. Off goes modern paleontology and archaeology.
"But all those observatio....." SHUT UP! there are no observations.
"Oh, bbbbut we all see here in the geologic...." SHUT up there is no geological record. Repent!
"Yes but we just call the age when people started to use bronze and invented writing and built the first citiiiii...." SHUT UP I said, there is no bronze age, REPENT!
"Uh....maybe http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronze_age" ;. I SAID SHUT UP!
"Fossils do not support Darwin, they support Moses."
Seems to me that the ones that find those fossils, the paleontologists, have different opinions about that.
But this one I like. Let's go into this.
First of all, let me know the pertaining bible citations, WHERE and WHAT Mozes told us about the fossils.
Next, where can I find the scientific evidence of fossils supporting Mozes? Your source references please. Warning: by SCIENTISTS. Anyone without a degree in paleontology or geology will be discarded with any further ado. I will not even respond.
Prediction: the Great Dodging starts.
"Only a global flood can produce global fossils. Only a global flood can produce global rock layers, it's that simple! If you LOOK & OBSERVE you see that there are no transitional fossils, no new phyla since the flood &"
REALLY? ANY IDEA why ALL the experts on these matters, without ANY exception, the geologists, paleontologists and other earth scientists, just laugh the shit out of their pants reading this DECEIT? Or just shrug their shoulders and continue their daily business?
ANY IDEA?
Well, go to the next website: http://www.oldearth.org/stratigraphy.htm .
MIND the source: a creationist site.
There the geological record of the Grand Canyon has been described in painstakingly detail, 5 pages long.
Please tell me his conclusions.
Prediction:
1) you will NOT read it
2) you will still draw conclusions from NOT having read it.
I shall summarize the current state of affairs in modern paleontology and geology: it COMPLETELY and ENTIRELY DESTROYS your notions on the fossils, the age of the earth and the notion of the global flood. Not only because of lacking ANY evidence for it but ACTIVELY REFUTING it. ALL OF IT?
Do you understand this assessment?
And I KNOW because I have read the main literature on it.
AND YOU DIDN'T.
Your post is too long which means it has no substance. I couldn't suffer it all but much as I tried will pick from it something to respond to. Indeed a response is required because you are so lost.

1st & foremost being right has nothing to do with how many other people believe the same thing, the others could all be wrong. To drive this home let me say for argument's sake not 5.9 bn other people are wrong about the true God. Let me say 6.999 billion are wrong & only 6000 are right, is that impossible? Think, don't just emot think. Use your noodles.

I'm not going to talk about what you call "experts." Not a word, I might regret it or more to the point I want to be gentle with you.

Here's a question. Does palaeontology show gradual transition or sudden jumps? How do dead things fossilise, is it from sudden burial (aka flood) or is it lying there dead for millions of years? Think about it, don't emot think.

Finally, you predicted correctly I'm not going read what you say about the Grand Canyon not to mention you didn't give a reference. If you've got stuff to say about it, let's roll.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#8 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post is too long which means it has no substance. I couldn't suffer it all but much as I tried will pick from it something to respond to. Indeed a response is required because you are so lost.
SINCE WHEN do long posts have no substance? TATTLE.
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
1st & foremost being right has nothing to do with how many other people believe the same thing, the others could all be wrong. To drive this home let me say for argument's sake not 5.9 bn other people are wrong about the true God. Let me say 6.999 billion are wrong & only 6000 are right, is that impossible? Think, don't just emot think. Use your noodles.
I'm not going to talk about what you call "experts." Not a word, I might regret it or more to the point I want to be gentle with you.
You are saying that all the other people are worshipping demons.
HOW DARE YOU.
I have nothing more to add to this ARROGANCE.
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a question. Does palaeontology show gradual transition or sudden jumps? How do dead things fossilise, is it from sudden burial (aka flood) or is it lying there dead for millions of years? Think about it, don't emot think.
NO QUESTIONS.
I posed YOU questions.
I WANT ANSWERS.
Answer them.
Sorry I was FIRST.
Don't DODGE.
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Finally, you predicted correctly I'm not going read what you say about the Grand Canyon not to mention you didn't give a reference. If you've got stuff to say about it, let's roll.
As I said, the Great Dodging has started.
You are a COWARD too.

WHAT A CRAP.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#9 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days, if we give short answers all we can do is to gainsay you. Now if you want we can go into details why we know that you are wrong.

For example we know there was no worldwide flood since there are no Flood sediments. Analysis of sedimentary rocks show that they are the result of slow steady deposition. A flood cannot explain the sedimentary record.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#10 Jul 21, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
In Six Days, if we give short answers all we can do is to gainsay you. Now if you want we can go into details why we know that you are wrong.
For example we know there was no worldwide flood since there are no Flood sediments. Analysis of sedimentary rocks show that they are the result of slow steady deposition. A flood cannot explain the sedimentary record.
Just make sure your posts are not too long or make any reference to experts.

{head/desk}
In Six Days

Preston, UK

#11 Jul 21, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
In Six Days, if we give short answers all we can do is to gainsay you. Now if you want we can go into details why we know that you are wrong.
For example we know there was no worldwide flood since there are no Flood sediments. Analysis of sedimentary rocks show that they are the result of slow steady deposition. A flood cannot explain the sedimentary record.
And the dead animals fossilised slowly & steadily too. They did not decay, weren't eaten by scavengers, didn't wash away but slowly laid there to fossilise. Waal.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#12 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
And the dead animals fossilised slowly & steadily too. They did not decay, weren't eaten by scavengers, didn't wash away but slowly laid there to fossilise. Waal.
Fossilization only occurs under specific conditions. Many sedimentary rocks have no fossils at all. For example they are fairly rare in sandstone. A slow steady deposition is needed under anoxic conditions. You are only showing that you are ignorant and listen to lying sources.
In Six Days

Preston, UK

#13 Jul 21, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
SINCE WHEN do long posts have no substance? TATTLE.
<quoted text>
You are saying that all the other people are worshipping demons.
HOW DARE YOU.
I have nothing more to add to this ARROGANCE.
<quoted text>
NO QUESTIONS.
I posed YOU questions.
I WANT ANSWERS.
Answer them.
Sorry I was FIRST.
Don't DODGE.
<quoted text>
As I said, the Great Dodging has started.
You are a COWARD too.
WHAT A CRAP.
Yes, I do dodge crap & don't answer stupid questions. I can see right through posers who say have you read this or that about the Grand Canyon? Got stuff to say, say it. Otherwise shut up.

If you are not worshiping God chances you are worshipping a demon. You are either with God or you're with the Demons. A president once said something similar once, you probably voted for him too.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#14 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, I do dodge crap & don't answer stupid questions. I can see right through posers who say have you read this or that about the Grand Canyon? Got stuff to say, say it. Otherwise shut up.
If you are not worshiping God chances you are worshipping a demon. You are either with God or you're with the Demons. A president once said something similar once, you probably voted for him too.
And if you don't worship at all?
In Six Days

Preston, UK

#15 Jul 21, 2014
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
And if you don't worship at all?
Everybody worships something or someone.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#16 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Everybody worships something or someone.
Nah.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#17 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
And the dead animals fossilised slowly & steadily too. They did not decay, weren't eaten by scavengers, didn't wash away but slowly laid there to fossilise. Waal.
Your ignorance is breathtaking.
ANY superficial glance in ONE random palaeontological book already demonstrates the TERRIBLE TATTLES you produce.
WHAT A SHIT.
I repeat: WHAT A SHIT.
U N B E L I E V A B L E SHIT.
Shame yourself by exposing your ignorance like that.

Creationism is organized DECEIT.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#18 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Everybody worships something or someone.
No, we DON'T pertaining science.

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#19 Jul 21, 2014
In Six Days wrote:
<quoted text>
Everybody worships something or someone.
WHERE are my answers.

As I said: the Great Dodging started.
In Six Days

Preston, UK

#20 Jul 21, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
No, we DON'T pertaining science.
You worship science & evolution in particular. Your religion is Evolutionism.

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