Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 197610 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120826 Aug 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny how reglitards opt for threats when they have nothing else to offer. On another thread I have been threatened regularly, when the good christian perp decided that he was getting nowhere he decided to threaten my parents. Again, I would not buckle to his god so he then chose the threaten my children.
It seems to be the christian way and you can get used to it but I really do think child abuse and death threats are over the top.
I've been banned from some of the religinut threads for using terms they don't appreciate. I feel I get my pound of flesh.:-P

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#120827 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Look, I think we are dealing with two divergent views, both of which seem plausible.
Both seem plausible? By what standard?
One view is that if we say that something created existence, it is logical to ask what created the creator, and so on and so on. There would be no final answer.
Which adds to it's plausiblity how?
The other view , which strikes me as equally reasonable, is that something cannot emerge from absolute nothing.
Where in Evolutionary theory does it state that? Pssst ... this is what we can a straw-man argument.
Yet here it is, and here we are to debate the issue. Though both views seem at odds with each other, this only deepens the mystery, at least for me. It is impossible to conceive of a primordial essence, yet equally impossible to imagine a 'nothingness' from which existence emerged.
No, it doesn't deepen the mystery at all. The arguments themselves aren't at odds, it's the political and cultural issues that are at odds. Do we raise a generation believing in things that cannot be supported by one shred of evidence or do we not. That's the argument. Creationism has lost every single scientific argument since well before Darwin. You can believe as you wish, but you can't list a single scientific advancement based on Creationism, can you?

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#120828 Aug 26, 2014
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
You need to educate yourself on information theory,..information is not matter nor energy , its information. I could give you the person who said that , but what would it matter? you've already made up your mind.
The idea of information being unable to be created by another other than an intelligent source has been debunked for a long time. You really need to catch up. What Creationists do with this argument is pretty much typical obfuscation. An open mind is one, when presented with the evidence, adopts it. Since you have yet to present any actual evidence, my open mind is quite safe. You, on the other hand, like to accuse other people of being close-minded, yet you are the one who when presented with the evidence, denies it time and time again. I think that's Creationist tactic #41, accuse your opponents of using the precise tactics you are using to confuse any issue.... or is it #42? I don't think I have the latest playbook.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#120829 Aug 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Does topix TOCs have something about death threats...?
Perhaps he should be reported for being too blatantly christian on a public thread
Larry seems pretty harmless. I've been accused of much worse from Creationists of various stripes everything from my politics, sexual orientation (in the crudest forms imaginable), gender, race, religion, age, and even for some reason hair-color (red-headed step-child?). It's fun when they sputter and say many of the things you would assume their religion tells that is a sin. It's either the supposed anonymity of the Internet or their assumption is instant forgiveness from one deity or another that makes them say things in here they would never say face-to-face.
Morningtime

Los Angeles, CA

#120830 Aug 26, 2014
http://www.topix.com/forum/us/THF9K5A7JJSH5QO...
It's not for the conversation, but the geometry of it.
Note that in the picture, the full diameters of 13 of the Emmy statues' bases can be seen, three more statues are visible, but the full diameters of their bases are not visible. You can see a visible geometric pattern running through the collection of Emmy statues, but the question of how many more still remains if you don't already know the total number of Emmys to be awarded and you're trying to figure that out by deriving an answer from the number of statues you can verify and possibly some system of logic based upon observation and mathematics to determine how many more there are.
"total NUMBER of emmys awarded in 2014?" Was among other attempts to obtain a definitive TOTAL number award statues.
https://www.google.com/#q=+Total+number+of+em...
Good luck compiling that pile of horseshit into a total number and getting back to us on that.
We are here...> (.)

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120831 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Of laughter?
Is there a better way to go?

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120832 Aug 26, 2014
TurkanaBoy wrote:
<quoted text>
Let's investigate what science says about "something emerges from nothing":
- cosmology (big bang theory) says that the onset of the universe was a state of very hot and dense energy. Very hot and dense energy? Everything BUT "nothing".
- abiogenesis says that life emerged out of organic molecules through biochemical processes, driven by either solar or geothermal energy. Organic molecules? Solar or geothermal energy? Everything BUT "nothing".
Now let's examine the religious point of view:
- God created the universe and life out of ....... uhhhhh ........ uhhhhh........(anyone?)..... uhhhh ..... well NOTHING. In the mainstream of Christian theology this is even confirmed, the so-called doctrine of creatio ex nihil - in plain English: creation out of nothing. Read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creatio_ex_nihil...
You DO REALIZE that you were talking about RELIGION, do you?
I think you've gone off course a bit. We are speaking of what might have triggered the so-called Big Bang. That is the energy source to which I allude. Of course the question then becomes, where did that "trigger" come from? And so on ad infinitum.

Abiogenesis has never produced molecules that showed a survival instinct, thus it cannot be considered a reflection of how actual organic life began.
Also, when you speak of abiogenesis, you are speaking about a different question. Abiogenesis seeks to learn how life began, while the trigger of the Big Bang seeks to discover how anything began.
Morningtime

Los Angeles, CA

#120833 Aug 26, 2014
Do you see what I mean?
Even MY numbers are off. On Purpose?
Miscalculation?
Lack of ability to predict some of what may be?
Lack of an observation platform?
Angle of view?
(.) The dot in the middle is our knowledge. The parentheses are the boundary between what is obserevable and what is not.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120834 Aug 26, 2014
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
So why do you assume that science cannot do what you claim for your god?
Actually no, there is absolutely no reason in science why something cannot emerge from nothing and the concept is a quantum possibility. There are plenty of papers and discussion on the subject for your perusal.
Therefore not scientifically unsound but a real kick in the teeth for creatards who guess that their god dunitwiv nothing (read the babble) yet deny that possibility to anyone else.
Here we go again! I don't have a "god". Pay attention!

If there is anything I dislike more than a hyper-religious zealot, it is a "holier-than-thou" atheist.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120835 Aug 26, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not as 'accurate' as you seem to think. yes, this is speculation, but it is based on the best science we have right now.
http://www.amazon.com/Universe-Nothing-There-...
Your link is to a book, which I don't have access to at present.
I've seen theories that involve quantum mechanics. But in my opinion quantum mechanics makes a better case for a "god" than it does for atheism.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120836 Aug 26, 2014
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, you have not shown that an infinite regress is impossible, so your first scenario is a possibility.
Second, we know that there *are* uncaused events and that things *can* spontaneously 'emerge from nothing'. In fact, both are commonplace among quantum level situations. The latter is regulated by issues of conservation of energy, but one amazing thing is that the universe as a whole has zero total energy! That is because gravitational energy counts negatively and actually cancels the energy from matter.
Now, while both scenarios are still possibilities, there are reasons to think that the second is more likely given our current understandings of science. The first is still an option, but it turns out not to be as compatible with quantum mechanics as the other.
I would argue that the "nothing" from which spontaneous things can emerge is actually "something". We simply don't know what it is.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120837 Aug 26, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text> The idea of information being unable to be created by another other than an intelligent source has been debunked for a long time. You really need to catch up. What Creationists do with this argument is pretty much typical obfuscation. An open mind is one, when presented with the evidence, adopts it. Since you have yet to present any actual evidence, my open mind is quite safe. You, on the other hand, like to accuse other people of being close-minded, yet you are the one who when presented with the evidence, denies it time and time again. I think that's Creationist tactic #41, accuse your opponents of using the precise tactics you are using to confuse any issue.... or is it #42? I don't think I have the latest playbook.
This is getting a bit tiresome, but if you think I support Creationism you haven't been reading my comments on the subject. I am not religious.
Further, the self-satisfied notion that an "intelligent" trigger has been debunked is not evidence of an open mind. Like so many others, you speak with a sense of smug certainty about issues where there is as yet no basis for certainty.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120838 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>Here we go again! I don't have a "god". Pay attention!
If there is anything I dislike more than a hyper-religious zealot, it is a "holier-than-thou" atheist.
Or a Christian religious zealot who claims to have no religion, just a personal relationship with his magic sky daddy.
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#120839 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>I would argue that the "nothing" from which spontaneous things can emerge is actually "something". We simply don't know what it is.
It's God. Haven't you learned anything from watching Pat Robertson 24/7?

The energy you put into posting on boards of a hundred thousand plus with intricate argumentations you actually believe people read can only be explained by atheism... an unfounded faith in humans.

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120840 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Or a Christian religious zealot who claims to have no religion, just a personal relationship with his magic sky daddy.
GUARDS! Take this one away!

Damn! You are such a halfwit!

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120841 Aug 26, 2014
Cordwainer Trout wrote:
<quoted text>
It's God. Haven't you learned anything from watching Pat Robertson 24/7?
The energy you put into posting on boards of a hundred thousand plus with intricate argumentations you actually believe people read can only be explained by atheism... an unfounded faith in humans.
In 1938 the state of Wyoming produced enough dry edible beans to feed every man, woman, and child in the nation.

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#120842 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>GUARDS! Take this one away!
Damn! You are such a halfwit!
Ha!! Nailed it! huh?
Cordwainer Trout

Elizabethtown, KY

#120843 Aug 26, 2014
Lawrence Wolf wrote:
<quoted text>In 1938 the state of Wyoming produced enough dry edible beans to feed every man, woman, and child in the nation.
And God in His infinite Wisdom introduced climate change and non-Democrat agricultural policies refusing to dump tons of sugar into the ocean and dye potatoes with poison so they couldn't be marketed.
TheMorningSunlig ht

Los Angeles, CA

#120844 Aug 26, 2014
Bad presentation of wit and comedy.../\
10:27 AM pst

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#120845 Aug 26, 2014
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
Ha!! Nailed it! huh?
Yep, I think I was pretty much spot on.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 5 min ChristineM 13,404
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 3 hr ChristineM 31,433
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 5 hr ChromiuMan 151,061
This is how christians fumble up the evolution ... Mon zxx838557 1
Rome Viharo debunks evolution Sun Paul Porter1 2
Evolution in action May 27 MIDutch 1
News RANT: Is "global warming" today's version of th... May 25 bearings 2
More from around the web