Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Read more

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114546 Jun 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
That's nice. So cut the BS and get to the point already.
But it is first necessary for you to answer the questions.

1. Is looking for evidence that someone said something, the same as looking for evidence that a vehicle has passed a particular spot?
2. Do words have the same effects as tire tracks?
3. Do words leave impressions on the ground like tire tracks?
4. Do we not know that when looking for evidence of things, it is the nature of the thing that determines how that thing will/can be investigated?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#114547 Jun 17, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I see you believe God does not exist but yet you assign God a race and I think you have also assigned God a gender.. Interesting. By the way it was Jesus who was the Jew, not God. As far as I know God has no race, color or gender.
Halleluyah!
In addition, God is infinite.

Since: Mar 11

Minnesota's North Coast

#114548 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that full well.
"It is NOT that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for WE cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
[Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist (and self-proclaimed Marxist)]
And this is the scary part:
"The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen." [http://creation.com/amazing-a dmission-lewontin-quote]
So they are being led to cut themselves off.
but miracles have never happened...

the laws of the universe have never been breached by some fictitious man created myth.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114549 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
*puffs cigarette and stares blankly at Kong*
<quoted text>
*raises eyebrows and takes another puff from cigarette, puts the cigarette out and light another*
[Lights 'Arturo Fuente Churchill', and exhales smoke in HOG's face. Smiles understandingly at his confusion, and takes another sip of his Macallan 12yr old.]

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#114550 Jun 17, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the greedy Americans that supply more exports to Germany than any other country in Europe? The reason I don't take the criticisms of Europeans very seriously is that they are usually doing it while in some way consuming American consumer or manufactured goods. So feel free to say whatever you wish about America. You certainly paid for the privilege.
You are wrong for using that,“ European”. You are generalising the whole thing. Remember he is bragging for Germany and not Europe, even though he is a European. Other Europeans are not in support of him. He is just a loner.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114551 Jun 17, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, our intelligence is inside the universe, a product of natural forces in nature.
You sure do like to drag stuff out, eh.
1. Obtain a clean sheet of paper, a pencil and a compass (if you want your circle to be pretty)

2. Inscribe three circles of three different sizes, so that the largest one contains the medium one and the medium one contains the smallest one.

3. Label the smallest circle B (for brain)

4. Label the medium circle I (for individual)

5. Label the largest circle U (for universe)

Question/s:

If "B" performs intelligent behavior, is "I" intelligent?

If "I" performs intelligent behavior is "U" intelligent?

IF the universe generating and possessing intelligent mechanisms is not intelligent: you possessing a brain in your head (assuming you do) does not make you intelligent.

But its all the same.

Because if you can look at yourself with all your faculties of reason and creativity in the mirror and say that you DO NOT see any intelligence in the design; you are probably right.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114552 Jun 17, 2014
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>but miracles have never happened...
the laws of the universe have never been breached by some fictitious man created myth.
I agree.

Jesus said "It is a wicked and perverse generation that seeketh a sign [i.e. miracle]."

Because if God created nature, God would be the most natural thing and God's works would be only natural.

The laws of nature never have and never will be breached by some fictitious man created myth.

That is something we can both agree on.

Do you smoke?

*hands woodie a cigarette*

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114553 Jun 17, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
[Lights 'Arturo Fuente Churchill', and exhales smoke in HOG's face. Smiles understandingly at his confusion, and takes another sip of his Macallan 12yr old.]
*throws cigarette filter on the ground, squashes it, turns and walks away while reaching in pockets for another cigarette to light*

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#114554 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Obtain a clean sheet of paper, a pencil and a compass (if you want your circle to be pretty)
2. Inscribe three circles of three different sizes, so that the largest one contains the medium one and the medium one contains the smallest one.
3. Label the smallest circle B (for brain)
4. Label the medium circle I (for individual)
5. Label the largest circle U (for universe)
Question/s:
If "B" performs intelligent behavior, is "I" intelligent?
If "I" performs intelligent behavior is "U" intelligent?
IF the universe generating and possessing intelligent mechanisms is not intelligent: you possessing a brain in your head (assuming you do) does not make you intelligent.
But its all the same.
Because if you can look at yourself with all your faculties of reason and creativity in the mirror and say that you DO NOT see any intelligence in the design; you are probably right.
Our intelligence -- and that intelligence exhibited by other creatures of this universe -- are the consequence of evolution. There is no evidence of an 'outside [supernatural] intelligence' as depicted in the Bible.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114555 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that full well.
"It is NOT that the methods and institutions of science somehow compel us to accept a material explanation of the phenomenal world, but, on the contrary, that we are forced by our a priori adherence to material causes to create an apparatus of investigation and a set of concepts that produce material explanations, no matter how counter-intuitive, no matter how mystifying to the uninitiated. Moreover, that materialism is an absolute, for WE cannot allow a Divine Foot in the door."
[Professor Richard Lewontin, a geneticist (and self-proclaimed Marxist)]
And this is the scary part:
"The eminent Kant scholar Lewis Beck used to say that anyone who could believe in God could believe in anything. To appeal to an omnipotent deity is to allow that at any moment the regularities of nature may be ruptured, that Miracles may happen." [http://creation.com/amazing-a dmission-lewontin-quote]
So they are being led to cut themselves off.
What are you talking about? Your quote points out that theists will believe any nonsense as long as you can say "God did it".

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114556 Jun 17, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree.
Jesus said "It is a wicked and perverse generation that seeketh a sign [i.e. miracle]."
Because if God created nature, God would be the most natural thing and God's works would be only natural.
The laws of nature never have and never will be breached by some fictitious man created myth.
That is something we can both agree on.
Do you smoke?
*hands woodie a cigarette*
Your post contradicts itself again. God is a man made concept. As you said, God is s a fictitious man made myth.

Darwin observed the laws of nature and put them down on paper. He did not advocate the breaking of any natural laws.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114557 Jun 17, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Our intelligence -- and that intelligence exhibited by other creatures of this universe -- are the consequence of evolution. There is no evidence of an 'outside [supernatural] intelligence' as depicted in the Bible.
Kong's intelligence -- and that intelligence exhibited by his kin -- are the consequence of evolution. There is no evidence of an 'intelligence' as depicted in the Bible... or anywhere else.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114558 Jun 17, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you talking about? Your quote points out that theists will believe any nonsense as long as you can say "God did it".
No.

My quote points out that the dispositions of scientific thinkers today as it relates to God are motivated by philosophy and personal intent; not specifically the will to improve science.

Since: Jun 14

Location hidden

#114559 Jun 17, 2014
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post contradicts itself again. God is a man made concept. As you said, God is s a fictitious man made myth.
We made 1 + 1 = 2 also; is that a myth?
Subduction Zone wrote:
Darwin observed the laws of nature and put them down on paper. He did not advocate the breaking of any natural laws.
Your post contradicts itself again. Evolution is a man made concept. As you said, evolution is s a fictitious man made myth.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114560 Jun 18, 2014
SevenTee wrote:
<quoted text>
HOG
The evolutionist has two primary agendas
1. Removing Judeo Christian thought from planet Earth by any means necessary
2. Gaining credibility for their scientific studies so they can get a University Grant for research.
Those are powerful motivations for religious and economic gain.
Yeah, except neither of those is remotely true. Plenty of people that support Evolution are Christians and see no conflict between Evolution and Christianity. So 1 is patently false.

As to 2, no one simply gets University grants simply for supporting Evolution. They get grants to research very specific things. Even if Evolution is 100% overturned and replaced with a new theory, science would still continue, grants would still continue, scientists and researchers would still be able to get grants. There is absolutely no financial incentive to support Evolution simply for the sake of supporting Evolution.

There is however, a HUGE financial and personal incentive to reverse Evolution if such evidence existed. Evolution is the cornerstone of modern biology. If it were to be overturned and replaced with a new theory it would be the most incredible achievement in biology since the cure for smallpox. Nobel Prizes, book deals, foundations, university chairs and more would be showered upon the person or persons responsible. If evidence to overturn Evolution existed, scientists would not only NOT suppress it, they would fight each other Thunderdome style to be the first to present it.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114561 Jun 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
My quote points out that the dispositions of scientific thinkers today as it relates to God are motivated by philosophy and personal intent; not specifically the will to improve science.
First off if you want to claim that this God thingy exists you are going to need some evidence for it. Second it looks like you know nothing of what scientific people are thinking. Most of them are still interested in increasing man's knowledge.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#114562 Jun 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
We made 1 + 1 = 2 also; is that a myth?
<quoted text>
Your post contradicts itself again. Evolution is a man made concept. As you said, evolution is s a fictitious man made myth.
We can observe that 1 + 1 = 2 in many different ways.

There are no objective observations of God. Now evolution is a man made concept. Not all man made concepts are myths. Evolution can also be observed in many different ways. The theory of evolution explains the fact of evolution. As I said you know nothing of science or scientists. What evidence do you have that evolution is wrong?

Try not to make me laugh when you respond.

Since: Nov 07

St. James, NY

#114563 Jun 18, 2014
HOG_ the Hand of God wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
My quote points out that the dispositions of scientific thinkers today as it relates to God are motivated by philosophy and personal intent; not specifically the will to improve science.
Wanting to keep religious beliefs out of scientific inquiry is not the same as removing religious beliefs from the world. As we have said repeatedly, over and over and over again, you are completely free to believe in the religion of your choice, to believe in the philosophy of your choice, to believe in the political ideology of your choice, and so on. All scientists want to do is keep those things out of science.

If you like to quote things so much, here is a quote for you:

"We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as "one theory among others" is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God's good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God's loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge. We ask that science remain science and that religion remain religion, two very different, but complementary, forms of truth."

The Clergy Letter, signed by over 12,000 Christian clergy.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114564 Jun 18, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Not to mention that the American manufacturing and food processing industries lead the way via the Berlin Airlift and our government implemented the Marshall Plan, BOTH of which were instrumental in the survival of German citizens, and in the economic and cultural recovery of Germany immediately following WWII.
The Marshall plan has nothing to do with this.

Look at this
http://www.cato.org/publications/commentary/l...

It seems that you need a lesson in history and economy. The money of the Marshall Plan was a joke.
Of course you learn in school that you - who destroyed Europe - saved Europe.
deutscher Stolz

Osnabrück, Germany

#114565 Jun 18, 2014
Discord wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean the greedy Americans that supply more exports to Germany than any other country in Europe? The reason I don't take the criticisms of Europeans very seriously is that they are usually doing it while in some way consuming American consumer or manufactured goods. So feel free to say whatever you wish about America. You certainly paid for the privilege.
You should give us all of your exports with no costs for 50 years. Then we would be even with you.

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