Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 164330 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96228 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please, give me a break. These people are the loonies.
I can show you hundreds, if not thousands of comments from people who love his work.
There's a lot of loonies. So what?

Interesting that his own church disavows him.

You seem to think this is the first time his name has come it. It isn't.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96229 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
He lost his job because he's a friggin loony.
http://janalanmckenzie.wordpress.com/2008/12/...
Oh my!!

He is a Troofer! Of course many creatards are conspiracy theory nuts too.

Pure Gold>

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96230 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I forgot to add, the same university, after a few months of firing him, re-hired him saying he didn't have to teach evolution anymore.
Check it out.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =LETvVezBXioXX
Walter Vieth talking about his own history is not a valid source. You should be able to find an independent source that backs up this claim.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96231 Aug 7, 2013
I almost forgot, Imagine, you should be able to find an independent source backing up Veith's claims. Provided that they are true.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96232 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
There's a lot of loonies. So what?
Interesting that his own church disavows him.
You seem to think this is the first time his name has come it. It isn't.
There are hundreds of comments of people from his own church that love his teachings, you just picked the ones who don't.

I know this isn't the first time his name has come up, but its the first time I had the energy to type this much and defend him.

You know nothing about him, yet you degrade him on less than 15 loony comments.

Which lectures have you watched in full?

Any at all.

I didn't think so.

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#96233 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh please, give me a break. These people are the loonies.
I can show you hundreds, if not thousands of comments from people who love his work.
People who didn't have much understanding of science to begin with.

Why don't you open your mind to the possibility that Veith is not making claims based on science and those familiar with science might recognize that. What do you think? Is that possible?

“Don't be mad at me.”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

I'm just a little bunny.

#96234 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, you haven't had time to listen to the video.
You just have the mindset that you're not going to be open to any other ideas than your 'scientist' have brainwashed you to.
You are not going to open your mind to the possibility that you have sought out only information that supports what you believe and have never taken an honest look at this or other contradictory information.

And you guys push for teaching the alternative. Such hypocrisy.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96235 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are hundreds of comments of people from his own church that love his teachings, you just picked the ones who don't.
Easy to say.
imagine2011 wrote:
I know this isn't the first time his name has come up, but its the first time I had the energy to type this much and defend him.
Bully for you. I didn't realize typing was so exhausting.
imagine2011 wrote:
You know nothing about him, yet you degrade him on less than 15 loony comments.
Which lectures have you watched in full?
Any at all.
I didn't think so.
You don't know what I know and I don't really care what you think.

Interesting that the University of Western Cape seems to have no reference to him.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96236 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Like I said, you haven't had time to listen to the video.
You just have the mindset that you're not going to be open to any other ideas than your 'scientist' have brainwashed you to.
I have watched his videos in the past.

I don't need to watch them again.

Once someone lies in a position like his he loses all credibility. Walter Veith lies all of the time.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96238 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Walter Vieth talking about his own history is not a valid source. You should be able to find an independent source that backs up this claim.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/5...

Jump to page 3 to find the first part of the summary of his first video.
There seems to be a lot of topics recently asking for good arguements for creation, so since I've recently found this guy who, in my opinion, makes a very good arguement for creation I thought you guys would enjoy it, but first I want you guys to know that I'm nothing more than a layman when it comes to evolution so I can't argue on the lecturer's behalf, or at least not provide any more of an arguement then what you would find in the videos, so I'm going to ask you guys to watch a couple of them which are between an hour and an hour and a half each, so don't get mad at me for asking you to watch a long video, if you don't have the time or just don't want to then leave the thread and ignore it, I'm only making this thread because I want to share them.
First a little bit on the lecturer; his name's Walter Veith, born in Germany in 1949 and studied zoology in his home country, but recieved his PhD at the University of Cape Town in South Africa in 1979. His big achievement was being awarded the Royal Society London Grant for the Reconstruction and Development Program to establish a research climate in post-apartheid South Africa. So he has a good knowledge about evoltion, but he disagrees with it because there's just too many flaws in the theory for him to believe it and finds creation to be a much better explaination, on a scientific level, and he even gives evidence to support creation.
His story is pretty much that he was raised as a Catholic, had a bad experiace with Catholicism and became an athiest and studied evoltion, but gained so much knowledge about evolution that he realized it was nonsense and converted back to Christianity.
I have to say though, he's a bit quirky and has givin lectures on some, um, interesting topics, but he's a good man and I ask that you guys judge him on the evidence he provides and not, for example, what sect of Christianity he belongs to now-a-days.
And one last thing, he dosn't claim to have difinitive proof of creation and he makes that well known in the fist video, he just tell us "the other side of the story", showing us that evoltion easily has it's problems (not a "missing link" problem but major problems) and how creation is just as much a scientifically reasonable explaination for the creation of species and history of the earth (he even gives evidence for the flood of Noah). And he does use a few bible verses, so you'll have to deal with that kind of stuff too I'm afraid.
Now he has 8 lectures on the topic, but I'll only present the 6 that I think you guys will be interested in (less bible more science).
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Spoiler: Click to View
here he talks about the issue with the Big Bang theory and carbon dating and gives some evidence support the flood of Noah, but I particularly want you guys to watch this one to the end because at the end he tells a story about a malachite stone that blew my mind and was quite interesting.
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Spoiler: Click to View
This one is pretty much a whole hour of evidence supporting the flood of Noah
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96239 Aug 7, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You are not going to open your mind to the possibility that you have sought out only information that supports what you believe and have never taken an honest look at this or other contradictory information.
And you guys push for teaching the alternative. Such hypocrisy.
WRONG

I have watched tons of videos and read a lot of PRO-space, moon, stars, earth, evolution, non-religious materials.

I definitely have an open mind.

I try desperately to see where you guys are coming from and study up to discuss with you.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96240 Aug 7, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Easy to say.
<quoted text>
Bully for you. I didn't realize typing was so exhausting.
<quoted text>
You don't know what I know and I don't really care what you think.
Interesting that the University of Western Cape seems to have no reference to him.
Oh, really? lol!

Who did you speak to at the university? Got a name.

lol!
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96241 Aug 7, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>People who didn't have much understanding of science to begin with.
Why don't you open your mind to the possibility that Veith is not making claims based on science and those familiar with science might recognize that. What do you think? Is that possible?
How would you know anything about Veith?

All you've done is latched on to criticisms about him but you have never sat down and watched many of his videos.

If you did, it would upset the apple cart.

In fact, he has upset it.

The Catholic church (and all its power) are attacking him with false allegations because he exposes them.

Anti-semetism???

Riiiiiight, pffff.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96242 Aug 7, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I have watched his videos in the past.
I don't need to watch them again.
Once someone lies in a position like his he loses all credibility. Walter Veith lies all of the time.
I just read where you had to ask someone about him.

You don't have a clue about him and in fact, you don't want to know the truth, do ya?

It would mess up your entire world.

Sad
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#96243 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
CONTINUED:

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Spoiler: Click to View
Here he talks about some fallacies with our current understanding of fossils and he starts talking about the fallacis with evolution. This one's interesting because he counters the idea of "gradualism" by showing that the vast amount of species we have are just a result of their gene pool and them adapting to their environment as opposed to random mutations, which honastly makes more sense. He also makes some statements about carnivors which may not make much sense but he elaborates on it in the 6th lecture.

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Spoiler: Click to View
Here he talks about some missing links, like whales for example who's closest relative according to evolution, as Darwin said, was a swimming bear.. and there's many missing links like this. Also he talks about the ice age which I found interesting because he brings up some fallacies over our understanding of ice cores, which to me debunks the whole global warming theory since it's pretty much based on ice cores. He also talks about genes a bit, explaining why us having 99% in common with a chimp dosn't prove we are decended from them.

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Spoiler: Click to View
Now this one I really want you guys to watch cause here he talks about Darwin in depth and just evicerates his whole theory, particularly concerning the chances of life randomly forming in the first place. The way he put it, he made it seem like evolution required just as much faith as anything else. It kind of makes me mad that I was taught evolution in school without any one teaching the downsides he points out in this vid.

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Spoiler: Click to View
Now this one I think is his weakest arguement, he tries to prove that carnivores didn't exist at the beginning of time, but if you want to see someone try to attempt at proving that, he does a pretty good job and he expands on genes a little bit more.
I didn't totally convert to Christian fundamentalist after watching these, but I certainly do not believe in evolution, at least in it's current form and anyone who says that there's overwhelming proof for evolution obviously hasn't researched the topic as much as this guy has, perhaps athiests are putting their faith in the wrong religion?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96244 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/5...
Jump to page 3 to find the first part of the summary of his first video.
There seems to be a lot of topics recently asking for good arguements for creation, so since I've recently found this guy who, in my opinion, makes a very good arguement for creation I thought you guys would enjoy it, but first I want you guys to know that I'm nothing more than a layman when it comes to evolution so I can't argue on the lecturer's behalf, or at least not provide any more of an arguement then what you would find in the videos, so I'm going to ask you guys to watch a couple of them which are between an hour and an hour and a half each, so don't get mad at me for asking you to watch a long video, if you don't have the time or just don't want to then leave the thread and ignore it, I'm only making this thread because I want to share them.
First a little bit on the lecturer; his name's Walter Veith, born in Germany in 1949 and studied zoology in his home country, but recieved his PhD at the University of Cape Town in South Africa in 1979. His big achievement was being awarded the Royal Society London Grant for the Reconstruction and Development Program to establish a research climate in post-apartheid South Africa. So he has a good knowledge about evoltion, but he disagrees with it because there's just too many flaws in the theory for him to believe it and finds creation to be a much better explaination, on a scientific level, and he even gives evidence to support creation.
His story is pretty much that he was raised as a Catholic, had a bad experiace with Catholicism and became an athiest and studied evoltion, but gained so much knowledge about evolution that he realized it was nonsense and converted back to Christianity.
I have to say though, he's a bit quirky and has givin lectures on some, um, interesting topics, but he's a good man and I ask that you guys judge him on the evidence he provides and not, for example, what sect of Christianity he belongs to now-a-days.
And one last thing, he dosn't claim to have difinitive proof of creation and he makes that well known in the fist video, he just tell us "the other side of the story", showing us that evoltion easily has it's problems (not a "missing link" problem but major problems) and how creation is just as much a scientifically reasonable explaination for the creation of species and history of the earth (he even gives evidence for the flood of Noah). And he does use a few bible verses, so you'll have to deal with that kind of stuff too I'm afraid.
Now he has 8 lectures on the topic, but I'll only present the 6 that I think you guys will be interested in (less bible more science).
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_704b7 e5b62664f5eee6cd0ede6513f68'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_704b7e 5b62664f5eee6cd0ede6513f68'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
here he talks about the issue with the Big Bang theory and carbon dating and gives some evidence support the flood of Noah, but I particularly want you guys to watch this one to the end because at the end he tells a story about a malachite stone that blew my mind and was quite interesting.
'+ Base64.decode($('spoiler_c1cfb a7d352ad2ca973e2ece7e7e93ea'). innerHTML)+''); Element.remove('spoiler_c1cfba 7d352ad2ca973e2ece7e7e93ea'); Element.remove(this);"
Spoiler: Click to View
This one is pretty much a whole hour of evidence supporting the flood of Noah
Please, I said a valid source. Any source that starts out praising him is obviously biased.

re you really this stupid?

A valid source is an independent source. Not that of some sycophant that will believe any nonsense that Veith spews. Try again.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96245 Aug 7, 2013
_Savant_ wrote:
In my considerable experience and research, evolution is a myth invented by white people to help them hold sway over other peoples.
Since the theory of evolution holds that humans came from Africa and were not white that kinda underscores your ignorance, doesn't it?
_Savant_ wrote:
It is not possible for something as complicated as an eye to suddenly appear overnight, unless some Deity put it there.
The theory of evolution holds that eyes did not appear over night. Double underscore your ignorance.
_Savant_ wrote:
If there is a God, then there can be no evolution...
Why? Because your cartoon god isn't capable of creating evolution?
_Savant_ wrote:
...and we know there is a God.
How?
Every breath is a miracle.
You believe. And that's fine but unless you've met him, you don't *know*.
_Savant_ wrote:
...and the majority of humanity believe in a God, this is not, by the numbers, an atheist world.
If the existence of God were put to a world jury, the yes vote would be something like 6 billion to 1 billion, a majority verdict on any court on Earth.
So?
_Savant_ wrote:
God exists, Atheists, get over it, and prepare for an eternity of Brimstone...
From your loving god who promises to burn the crap out of everyone who doesn't do exactly what he says. Swell guy.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#96246 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I just read where you had to ask someone about him.
You don't have a clue about him and in fact, you don't want to know the truth, do ya?
It would mess up your entire world.
Sad
I have linked his videos here in the past. Specifically naming spots where he was lying. And proving that he lied.

In one of his videos he lies about what geologists believes. Now he was supposedly a professor at a good sized school. There is quite a bit of interdepartment communication at a large school. He could not be a professor and not know that what he said was not the truth.

He is an worse than an idiot. You are an idiot, if you cared to educate yourself your problem could be fixed. He is educated and he chooses to lie. That is a bigger sin in my book.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96247 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, really? lol!
Who did you speak to at the university? Got a name.
lol!
Check their website. Other than collaborating on some papers, there no mention of him.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#96248 Aug 7, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I just read where you had to ask someone about him.
You don't have a clue about him and in fact, you don't want to know the truth, do ya?
It would mess up your entire world.
Sad
Here ya go, bozo. Here's his CV. Interesting that he doesn't mention a damn thing about creationism or any of his wingnut conspiracies. I wonder why that is? Maybe he knows he get laughed out of town. Or Cape Town.

http://pdf.amazingdiscoveries.org/Veith_Curri...

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