Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.
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#88254
Apr 28, 2013
 

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ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
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The below recount is just one - in thousands upon thousands, of accounts of unexplained miracles.
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A newborn baby died shortly after birth - true story - and they were letting the family hold it before taking it to the morgue.
Approximately 20-25 minutes later, the baby began breathing again. The baby was/is fine and suffers no brain damage today.
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Science says that a human brain cannot ("cannot") go 4 minutes without oxygen before it will suffer damage.
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Unexplainable?
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Source: Sept 2010 UK http://www.today.com/id/38988444/ns/today-par...
Not hardly. The baby was not dead. It had a heartbeat and respiration that was so low that the doctor could not detect it.

No magic needed.

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Since: Apr 12

Zhengzhou, China

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#88255
Apr 28, 2013
 

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ViaDolorosa wrote:
"Let me ask you this - let's say a man, named John, decides to steal his neighbor's newspaper off his porch.
Does that mean all men named 'John' are a thief? Of course not - the conclusion would be that this particular "John" IS a thief, though, based on HIS decision to steal the newspaper."

Let me ask you this: Let's say a man who has been identified as an Evolutionist decides to kill everyone he considers inferior.
Does that mean all Evolutionists want to kill everyone they consider inferior?
Of course not. The conclusion would be that this particular man identified as an Evolutionist is a eugenist, though, based on HIS decision to kill everyone he sondiers inferior.

Let's be consistent.

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Everett, WA

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#88256
Apr 28, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...
A 2010 survey published in Encyclopedia Britannica found that is atheists at about 2.0%.
Another study assessing religiosity among scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.
Sociologist Philip Schwadel found that higher levels of education are associated with increased religious participation and religious practice in daily life.
According to a 2012 report by the Pew Research Center, people describing themselves as "atheist" were 2% of the total population in the US.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_o...
According to the International Bulletin of Missionary Research, an academic journal, "about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day."
Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population
While there are more atheists than ever before as global population continually increases, the atheist percentage of the total population seem to be declining
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religi...
Sources outside of Wikipedia give differing estimates:
The CIA's World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.39%(of which Roman Catholic 16.85%, Protestant 6.15%, Orthodox 3.96%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.74%, Hindu 13.8%, Buddhist 6.77%, Sikh 0.35%, Jewish 0.22%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 10.95%, atheists 2.01%
persecution. A 2006 study by researchers at the University of Minnesota involving a poll of 2,000 households in the United States found atheists to be the most distrusted of minorities,
In 2012, an article entitled Atheism in decline by Nigel Tomes declared:
In 1970 atheists (those avowing there is no God) numbered 166 million worldwide; that was almost one-in-twenty—4.5% of the globe’s population. By 2012 atheists’ number is estimated at 137 million. That’s a decline of almost 30 million. Since world population is growing, atheists’ share declined to less than one-in-fifty—under 2% in 2012. Put differently, every 24 hours there are 800 fewer atheists in the world! Atheism is in decline.
And those were poorly done polls. Once again, the poll I linked was more intensive, and world wide. Your is at best a collection of polls. Here is the link again:

http://redcresearch.ie/wp-content/uploads/201...

If you can find a better and more recent poll then let's see it. Mine was taken last year.

Atheism in the U.S. is 6%. Worldwide only 59% of people are religious, 23 % think of themselves as not religious. And another 13% consider themselves convince atheists. Added together that is 36% of the world's population consider themselves either not religious or atheist.

My poll is newer and more thorough than yours.

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Everett, WA

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#88258
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Oh my, another Fundy shoots himself in the foot. From this site:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_o...

" The number of atheists is on the rise across the world, with religiosity generally declining.[1] Scientists and in particular eminent scientists are mostly atheists, perhaps the only demographic in the West in which this occurs.[2][3]"

More dishonesty from KJV. From his first article let's look at the complete paragraph, rather than the quote mine:

"
It is difficult to quantify the number of atheists in the world. Respondents to religious-belief polls may define "atheism" differently or draw different distinctions between atheism, non-religious beliefs, and non-theistic religious and spiritual beliefs.[180] A Hindu atheist would declare oneself as a Hindu, although also being an atheist at the same time.[181] A 2010 survey published in Encyclopdia Britannica found that the non-religious made up about 9.6% of the world's population, and atheists about 2.0%. This figure did not include those who follow atheistic religions, such as some Buddhists.[182] A broad figure estimates the number of atheists and agnostics on Earth at 1.1 billion.[183]"

And let's look at the next paragraph while we are at it:

"
A NovemberDecember 2006 poll published in the Financial Times gives rates for the United States and five European countries. The lowest rates of atheism were in the United States at only 4%, while the rates of atheism in the European countries surveyed were considerably higher: Italy (7%), Spain (11%), Great Britain (17%), Germany (20%), and France (32%).[25] The European figures are similar to those of an official European Union survey, which reported that 18% of the EU population do not believe in a god.[184] Other studies have placed the estimated percentage of atheists, agnostics, and other nonbelievers in a personal god as low as single digits in Poland, Romania, Cyprus, and some other European countries,[185] and up to 85% in Sweden, 80% in Denmark, 72% in Norway, and 60% in Finland.[23] According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, 22% of Australians have "no religion", a category that includes atheists.[186] Between 64% and 65%[23] of Japanese and up to 81%[187] of Vietnamese are atheists, agnostics, or do not believe in a god. A 2012 Gallup survey reported that 13% of people surveyed worldwide self-report to be atheists.[188] In the United States, there was a 1% to 5% increase in self-reported atheism from 2005 to 2012, and a larger drop in those who self-identified as "religious", down by 13%, from 73% to 60%"

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...

It looks like KJV has been less than honest even with his own sites.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#88259
Apr 28, 2013
 
ViaDolorosa wrote:
Published in a 1915 newsletter - you might want to read this.
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http://carm.org/secular-movements/evolution/d...
Unceremoniously rebutted as a LIE by your very own allies at Answers in Genesis!

What Really Happened?

Unfortunately, when the full text of the report is examined, there are many inconsistencies that make the story untenable. While it is possible that Lady Hope did visit Darwins home in late 1881, this was almost seven months before his death.5 He was certainly not bedridden for six months before his death. Further, there was nothing to indicate that he was always studying the Bible.

On the Down House property, there was a small summerhouse, but it was too small to accommodate 30 people. There is nothing in his writings to indicate that Darwin ever asked anyone to speak about Christ Jesus.

Further, it is fascinating what Lady Hopes story does not say. It does not say that Darwin renounced evolution. It merely says that Darwin speculated over the outcome of his ideas. He never backed away from evolution. Nor does the Lady Hope story say that Darwin actually became a Christian. The story, even if true, merely claims the Darwin was reading the Bible and made a statement about Christ. Nowhere is there a claim of a saving relationship with the Savior.

As soon as this story became public, the denials from Darwins family began (as they did after every supposed conversion story became known). In a letter to James Howe, Darwins son Francis wrote in 1915:He [Darwin] could not have become openly and enthusiastically Christian without the knowledge of his family, and no such change occurred.6

In a letter dated May 28, 1918, Francis again writes:Lady Hopes account of my fathers views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but I have not seen any reply.3
Darwins daughter Henrietta wrote in 1922:I was present at his deathbed. Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness.... He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier.7

Conclusion

Beyond these denials, if the tale were true, why did Darwins wife Emma not rejoice in this? She was always troubled by what she perceived as the godless nature of his views. If he indeed repented, why did she not make this known? Also, if the story were credible, why did Lady Hope wait 33 years before relating it, and even then, relating it in a country across the ocean?

Given the weight of evidence, it must be concluded that Lady Hopes story is unsupportable, even if she did actually visit Darwin. He never became a Christian, and he never renounced evolution.
As much as we would like to believe that he died with a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, it is much more likely that he didnt. It is unfortunate that the story continues to be promoted by many sincere people who use this in an effort to discredit evolution when many other great arguments exist, including the greatest: the Bible.

Editors note: this article was originally published March 31, 2009, and has been republished under the Arguments Christians Should Not Use web series.

[GILLETTE AGAIN] Apparently Lady Hope was a liar. Isn't; that against one of your Jesus' main commandments?

Gee, may you should heed the advice of these "Christians" and make this an "Argument Christians Should Not Use."
LOL!

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#88260
Apr 28, 2013
 

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KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
I know I have something.
I know, but the free clinic can treat you for it, if you are lucky. Remember; herpes is forever.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Zhengzhou, China

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#88261
Apr 28, 2013
 
Now for a discussion on the genetic fallacy:

Would you buy a hair restoration program from me?
You shouldn't, because I am capillarily challenged.
Would you buy a diet and exercise program from me?
You shouldn't, because I am a man of considerable adiposity.

So why do you expect us to buy a program which purports to make better people, if that program shows no evidence of making better people?

I am reminded of Father Divine, a cult leader who provided a commune for his followers in Philadelphia in the 1920's.
He claimed that he and his followers were immortal.
One time, however, a woman in his commune died. He left the follower's dead body lying in place.
He argued that it wasn't his resposibility, because she couldn't have been a true follower of his or she wouldn't have died.
After two weeks, the city of Philadelphia finally gave in and removed the body.
From then on, the city was quick to act upon any further fatalities.
Finally, Father Divine himself died.
A few of his followers remained, arguing that his spirit was living on, but they were fooling no one but themselves.

If you ask me, Father Divine was wrong in claiming immortality for himself and his followers.

So what's the diff?
ViaDolorosa

Mableton, GA

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#88262
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
The deathbed conversion lie has long ago been debunked. Even Answers in Genesis knows that this is a base lie:
http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/2009...
By the way, when you quote lying sites people will tend to call you a liar.
.
No - it hasn't been "debunked" - it has been "denied" by atheists, that's all.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#88263
Apr 28, 2013
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Being a Christian is not a club that you can belong to while living a sinful life.
You must turn your life over to God
Something Hitler did not do.
how would you know? since you openly lie without regret, and do so repeatedly so you have no thought to stop this action, you certainly don't fall into that christian category you claim.

in fact, didn't you claim to not follow any religion? another lie? a lie about your own faith?

is anything you say true at all? even one thing?
ViaDolorosa

Mableton, GA

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#88264
Apr 28, 2013
 

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Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Unceremoniously rebutted as a LIE by your very own allies at Answers in Genesis!
What Really Happened?
Unfortunately, when the full text of the report is examined, there are many inconsistencies that make the story untenable. While it is possible that Lady Hope did visit Darwins home in late 1881, this was almost seven months before his death.5 He was certainly not bedridden for six months before his death. Further, there was nothing to indicate that he was always studying the Bible.
On the Down House property, there was a small summerhouse, but it was too small to accommodate 30 people. There is nothing in his writings to indicate that Darwin ever asked anyone to speak about Christ Jesus.
Further, it is fascinating what Lady Hopes story does not say. It does not say that Darwin renounced evolution. It merely says that Darwin speculated over the outcome of his ideas. He never backed away from evolution. Nor does the Lady Hope story say that Darwin actually became a Christian. The story, even if true, merely claims the Darwin was reading the Bible and made a statement about Christ. Nowhere is there a claim of a saving relationship with the Savior.
As soon as this story became public, the denials from Darwins family began (as they did after every supposed conversion story became known). In a letter to James Howe, Darwins son Francis wrote in 1915:He [Darwin] could not have become openly and enthusiastically Christian without the knowledge of his family, and no such change occurred.6
In a letter dated May 28, 1918, Francis again writes:Lady Hopes account of my fathers views on religion is quite untrue. I have publicly accused her of falsehood, but I have not seen any reply.3
Darwins daughter Henrietta wrote in 1922:I was present at his deathbed. Lady Hope was not present during his last illness, or any illness.... He never recanted any of his scientific views, either then or earlier.7
Conclusion
Beyond these denials, if the tale were true, why did Darwins wife Emma not rejoice in this? She was always troubled by what she perceived as the godless nature of his views. If he indeed repented, why did she not make this known? Also, if the story were credible, why did Lady Hope wait 33 years before relating it, and even then, relating it in a country across the ocean?
Given the weight of evidence, it must be concluded that Lady Hopes story is unsupportable, even if she did actually visit Darwin. He never became a Christian, and he never renounced evolution.
As much as we would like to believe that he died with a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ, it is much more likely that he didnt. It is unfortunate that the story continues to be promoted by many sincere people who use this in an effort to discredit evolution when many other great arguments exist, including the greatest: the Bible.
Editors note: this article was originally published March 31, 2009, and has been republished under the Arguments Christians Should Not Use web series.
[GILLETTE AGAIN] Apparently Lady Hope was a liar. Isn't; that against one of your Jesus' main commandments?
Gee, may you should heed the advice of these "Christians" and make this an "Argument Christians Should Not Use."
LOL!
.
Just because *you* say it's a lie doesn't make it a lie.

You give yourself too much credit, Gillette.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

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#88265
Apr 28, 2013
 
ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
.
No - it hasn't been "debunked" - it has been "denied" by atheists, that's all.
no, debunked. proven to not be true. much like all the other lies you put out as posts...

why is it so many of these 'christian' sites you get crap from are so full of proven lies? oh yeah, your whole cult is based on proven lies.
ViaDolorosa

Mableton, GA

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#88266
Apr 28, 2013
 

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"It's a lie"
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"It's been debunked"
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"Prove it"
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"There's no proof"
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"You're lying"
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"It's a myth"
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"It's a made up fable"
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"You're an idiot"
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"You're a creatard"
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"You're a parrot"
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etc.
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.
.
.
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These comments are not defenses.
They also prove nothing except that
you guys seem to thrive on arguing.
.
ViaDolorosa

Mableton, GA

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#88267
Apr 28, 2013
 
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how would you know? since you openly lie without regret, and do so repeatedly so you have no thought to stop this action, you certainly don't fall into that christian category you claim.
in fact, didn't you claim to not follow any religion? another lie? a lie about your own faith?
is anything you say true at all? even one thing?
.
Again - God is not a "religion".

What part of that aren't you understanding,
Woodtick.
ViaDolorosa

Mableton, GA

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#88268
Apr 28, 2013
 

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woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>no, debunked. proven to not be true. much like all the other lies you put out as posts...
why is it so many of these 'christian' sites you get crap from are so full of proven lies? oh yeah, your whole cult is based on proven lies.
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Not "debunked" nor "unproven" - just denied, that's all.
.
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Fortunately, you guys won't have to wait too much longer for all the proof you will need to know who the one true Creator, and Saviour, of this world, truly is.
.
Unfortunately, some of you may have to find out the hard way.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#88269
Apr 28, 2013
 
ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
.
.
Sigh.....
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This doesnt prove evolution at all. This would be yet another interpretation of what you see under a microscope when it comes to genetics. You still need for example to actuallysee it take place as they claim. What do we continue to see in captivity with all the animals we have in the world at zoos? Dogs give birth to dogs, and not a freak show animal. And evolutionist contend that they dont claim animals give rise to a half dog half sheep (this is only an example b/c evolutionist tend to take what is said to an extreme). Bottom line is if you ask them, the common ancestor between apes and humans what was the % of that animal? Was it 50% human and 50% ape and gave birth to a human being that was 90% human and 10% ape? Did it give birthtoo twins an ape and a human where the ape was 90% ape and 10% human and the human had 90% human and 10% ape? Do you see where Im going with this? The question remains, how and what did the common ancestor look like? What did it give birth to? You cant continue to say well it takes millions of years, well bottom line if there is a common ancestor btwapes and humans then that ape like creature or human like creature is giving birth and rise to a half ape/human like creature and no matter how much you talk about it, eventually you get us 100% human or are we according to evolutionist.
ERVsprove nothing at all unless you can produce the common ancestor, how it gave rise or have the question answered that did it give birth to twin creatures a ape and a human like animal, or what. You just cant show us an evolutionary tree and show common ancestry unless you are willing to say that the common ancestor had to give birth to some pretty odd offspring that kept branching to you get humans, apes, whales, bats, whatever, there should be a fossil record full of strange transitional, but you see fossils that look like modern day creatures which is not consistent with what we see in evolutionary where there is suppose to be this common ancestry. If it takes millions of years of slow change then you should have that in the record but you have animals that look like what you can find on earth with argues against slow change.
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For more information from the above excerpt, please click here:
http://egoeimi3.wordpress.com/2009/03/03/ervs...
Did you write this? It's such incoherent CRAP it made me laugh out aloud all the way through.

What bizarre nonsense!

If I thought you were the least bit interested in actually discussing the evidence for evolution and maybe LEARNING SOMETHING about science in the process, I would take this apart sentence by sentence and discuss it with you.

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#88270
Apr 28, 2013
 
KJV wrote, "The Scripture records that Adam's animal names stuck, which may indicate the names were more than titles in that they accurately described the animals."

They stuck? Where?
My pocket dictionary says that the Korean word for dog is "gae," the Chinese word is "gou," and the Japanese word is "inu."
If I recall correctly from foreign language class, the French word is "chien," the Spanish word is "perro," and the Italian word is "cane."
Which one of those words, if any, is the name which Adam applied?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#88271
Apr 28, 2013
 

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ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
.
Just because *you* say it's a lie doesn't make it a lie.
You give yourself too much credit, Gillette.
The "Christian" organization Answers in Genesis is saying it's a lie, you MORON.

READ their passage about it!

Christ, you are really REALLY stupid, aren't you? LOL

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#88272
Apr 28, 2013
 
ViaDolorosa wrote, "you guys seem to thrive on arguing."

And you don't?
What are you doing here, then?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

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#88273
Apr 28, 2013
 

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ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, some of you may have to find out the hard way.
Ah yes, the Fear Card. It's really all you have, isn't it? THREATS?

Your sick psycho Jesus will burn and torture us with out stopping for all eternity for not acknowledging him as Lord and Savior, etc.

Yuck, what a scumbag religion you push at us. And yes, it's a RELIGION.

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Everett, WA

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#88274
Apr 28, 2013
 
ViaDolorosa wrote:
<quoted text>
.
No - it hasn't been "debunked" - it has been "denied" by atheists, that's all.
No, seriously, it has been debunked. Even the creatard site Answers in Genesis admits that this story is the purest of bullshit.

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