Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 168932 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#87723 Apr 25, 2013
My Portal wrote:
<quoted text>What facts are you refering to?
http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...

But since you're not interested in facts why did you bother asking in the first place? Oh wait - you thought there WEREN'T any, because you thought that the invisible magical Jewish wizard did everything differently because it said so in an old book which says lizards and donkeys talk and the Earth is flat.
Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#87724 Apr 25, 2013
Creation + Evolution = Creation + Evolution = .......
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#87725 Apr 25, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm going to refer you to a book called "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne Ph.D. He is a professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolution at the University of Chicago. He can explain it *much* better than I can. Good writer and his book is in libraries.
Who says we're not still evolving. It's such a slow process (mostly), that I doubt if we would see that much happening.
What?!? No dog giving birth to a cat?

:-(
Mark

United States

#87726 Apr 25, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Behind Intelligent Design, and trying to get creationist lies into public schools across America is Phillip E. Johnson. A LAWYER. Behe may still be selling religious books, but I think he has a rather ‘iffy’ reputation as a scientist anymore.
You write:
“The entire establishments of the USSR and China feel the same way about evolution also, but I don't buy into dogma because of numbers.“
There is tremendous scientific evidence behind what I say about Adam and Eve.
What invalidates them is the fact that we have found abundant evidence of humans (Homo-sapiens) living as far back as 200,000 years ago. Archaeologists, paleoanthropologists, and DNA science have made the links, and we now understand that we humans ARE of the great ape line. So we did evolve and the above primates are our ancestors.
Also in the mix is that DNA scientists says that the human genome was never down to just 1 mating pair, at any time—or 4 mating pairs if you believe the Noachian Flood story.
So, do you think the Adam and Eve myth is viable anymore?? Of course you will….you are a fundamentalist who thinks the bible is literal truth, and you will deny or ignore the facts.
Funny thing about facts is they never go away and they are always facts.
A good place to start learning is: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence and: http://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/genetics These are at the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History website.
“I don’t want to believe, I want to know”– Carl Sagan
Well sir, I have never quoted Johnson, nor was I concerned what Hitler used to drive his armies. My point was atheism wants no competition from God, and lawyers have a reputation for wanting to "win" despite the truth. On the other point, establishment can be entirely in error. This happened in the NW US concerning the Missoula Flood. The Geologist that proposed it was beat down by the entire gov geologic establishment in two countries, but was vindicated after his death. One thing he purposed was short duration catastrophisim - oh, goodness! a back door tactic for those horrible ID people, grab your trench coats, commence the witch hunt, ID in disguise! Bias is so dull.

Yes I have presuppositions, but complexity doesn't arise in a mindless, self-driven system of hopeful forward complexity in experience or experiment. Yes I have faith, and fear. If there are questions to be answered that challenge Scripture I have confidence they will be answered. I stay current in the rebuttals from my side, and challenges are often dismantled very logically before press.

Fantastic complexity, the closed system of the cell, proof of the Biblical major geologic events (like the Great Unconformity), history, archeology evidence, its all there and fits, outside of my faith. If my faith was empty, with no answered prayer, revelation, or action, I would be a theistic skeptic or maybe a Panasperma cult follower. And yes, Adam and Eve were real people, because the Bible states so in many places. As more clues come in, who know's what can happen next? Eve in the mDNA made some headlines, what will you say if Adam turns up, will your side change position again?

Interesting that you use the term "paleoanthropologists " I remember not long ago Johansson was hoping one day it could be a "science", as all they had was bones to cover a pool table for all the transitionals, but now they have 1 1/2 tables and you are asking me to throw away my Bible. Sorry, no deal.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#87727 Apr 25, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
What?!? No dog giving birth to a cat?
:-(
Only if you cross your eyes properly..:-)

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87728 Apr 25, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Ever read the book? I would like to hear the evolutionary version of the step by step development of the chemical motor that drives flagellum, or the engineering marvel of the blood clotting process. Teach the above in high school and you will have a revolution on your hands. Better ban it fast,- oh, that's right, your faithful have already done that for you. Like banning the Bible in commie China or Russia right? Better protect the ignorant masses from that one before it's too late. There's no difference here.
The obvious trend is to attack the character of the author, not the actual content. The book is in it's 20th printing. I know a number of believers who had to write in a pen names or be booted out of school, only to be awarded for their work and have it added to the textbooks in the same universities now use! One poster said Behe was out of a job, that wasn't true, he is still teaching, bias is dull.
No, I have never read Behe's book. His check to me hasn't cleared yet.

On the flagellum your are in luck, I just watched a video that explains it:



On blood clotting you should do some research. That was the topic that Behe got blown away at the Dover trial. After declaring authoritatively that there were no publications that described this topic they built almost a fort of books and journal articles around him explaining how it evolved. I don't think even Behe makes this claim anymore, unless he is as big of a masochist as rusty is.
Mark

United States

#87729 Apr 25, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Well if you'd noticed anything at all about the flagellum you will notice it has precisely the same configuration as Yersinia pestis, only with less proteins, thus making it NOT irreducibly complex.
Of course you were not aware of this since you were merely repeating long refuted religious apologetics from your fellow liars for Jesus.
<quoted text>
Perhaps you could ask Behe if you could loan the 72 books on the subject that were dropped onto his lap in Dover. As I understand he admitted to never actually reading them before he made his claims of IC, and to my knowledge he hasn't since either. After all he found it far more profitable to write books on religious apologetics and whining about the Dover decision to sell to gullible rubes like yourself.
Of course if you HAD read any of those books I have no doubt that you STILL would not understand any of them nor even care, since after all you are simply just another liar for Jesus who claims reality isn't real because Goddidit with magic. Not that I would expect anything less from a creationist who keeps digging his own holes.(shrug)
IN THE MEANTIME however I would LOVE to hear about the "engineering marvel" of the blood-clotting cascade (meaning mechanisms and methods of engineering and scientific evidence of them), since NO FUNDIE ON THE PLANET has yet been able to explain ONE SINGLE THING about it. In fact they all seem perfectly happy to just claim a "who" is "somehow" responsible, rather than actually attempt to provide anything in the way of useful explanation.
<quoted text>
Yes, your Founders had the enlightened foresight to NOT allow Christian apologetics to be taught in public schools by guaranteeing religious freedom.
<quoted text>
Except that you are FREE to lie for Jesus, just NOT by using public taxpayers money to do so. That is WHY you're posting RIGHT NOW and there's nothing I can do about it. Except point out where you're wrong as usual.(shrug)
<quoted text>
Behe's character was put into question when he found out that his "science" was scientifically unsound, but then continued to lie for Jesus by touring the church circuit. It was HIS choice NOT to scientifically pursue his claims of IC by, oh I dunno, ACTUALLY RESEARCHING the subject - probably because he admitted - in his own words: "It would not be fruitful."
So what's the "scientific theory" of IDC Mark?
Thanks in advance for never bothering to answer my questions.
That is why you fundies are always doomed to failure.
Hello Dude, glad you are back, on vacation? My #2 daughter was in your country and loved it!

Anyway, 72 volumes of what, anything that makes logical sense that accident-and-chance-mutations- over-millions-of-years-made-it for us reasonable people to understand, or is that only for the enlightened again? NO, thats your presupposition. Ever use Rat Poison? It uses one chemical to break one link in the clot process and the rodent bleeds to death. Nice American invention. My point is it all has to connect for the process to work. No part can be left out or we die and yes it's complex - again.

If all these "fundies" you speak of can't explain something because it's complex? I don't get your point, are you hopeful the process can't be explained because it's too complex?

I need to call this off for now, more later - and yes i do spend time answering your rebuttals, dont see too many questions however.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87730 Apr 25, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Well sir, I have never quoted Johnson, nor was I concerned what Hitler used to drive his armies. My point was atheism wants no competition from God, and lawyers have a reputation for wanting to "win" despite the truth. On the other point, establishment can be entirely in error. This happened in the NW US concerning the Missoula Flood. The Geologist that proposed it was beat down by the entire gov geologic establishment in two countries, but was vindicated after his death. One thing he purposed was short duration catastrophisim - oh, goodness! a back door tactic for those horrible ID people, grab your trench coats, commence the witch hunt, ID in disguise! Bias is so dull.
Yes I have presuppositions, but complexity doesn't arise in a mindless, self-driven system of hopeful forward complexity in experience or experiment. Yes I have faith, and fear. If there are questions to be answered that challenge Scripture I have confidence they will be answered. I stay current in the rebuttals from my side, and challenges are often dismantled very logically before press.
Fantastic complexity, the closed system of the cell, proof of the Biblical major geologic events (like the Great Unconformity), history, archeology evidence, its all there and fits, outside of my faith. If my faith was empty, with no answered prayer, revelation, or action, I would be a theistic skeptic or maybe a Panasperma cult follower. And yes, Adam and Eve were real people, because the Bible states so in many places. As more clues come in, who know's what can happen next? Eve in the mDNA made some headlines, what will you say if Adam turns up, will your side change position again?
Interesting that you use the term "paleoanthropologists " I remember not long ago Johansson was hoping one day it could be a "science", as all they had was bones to cover a pool table for all the transitionals, but now they have 1 1/2 tables and you are asking me to throw away my Bible. Sorry, no deal.
Mark, the "Great Unconformity" is not all that great. It is a big unconformity in Britain. It is an unconformity of only 80 million years. In Colorado there is a "Great unconformity" too, but it is a different unconformity and is a gap of over a billion years.

When it comes to science the last thing you should do is to trust creationist sources.

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#87731 Apr 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
Creation + Evolution = Creation + Evolution =.......
??
Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Yes, I'm an Atheist.

#87732 Apr 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> ??
= Infinity of Creation + Evolution
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#87733 Apr 26, 2013
The Bible tells us things are made by patterns. The basic patterns that all things are made by on earth and throughout the cosmos have been known for thousands of years. The Great Pyramids were built having this pattern and the Greek Partheon as well. This pattern has been given different names throughout history. Phidias (500 BC -432 BC) was a Greek sculptor who applied it to the design of sculptures and Plato (428 BC - 347 BC) considered it to be the most binding of all mathematical relationships and the key to the physics of the cosmos. Euclid (365 BC-307 BC) reffered to it as a dvividing line in the extreme and mean ratio and it was used to term it as " The Golden Mean" and this division line is also known as the Golden section, Golden ratio and The Divine proportion. Our Creator is truly an artist and the " Divine Proportion" was used by the greatest artist to achieve balance and beauty and Leonardo Da Vinci used it to define all the fundamental proportions of his painting of " The Last Supper".

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87734 Apr 26, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
The Bible tells us things are made by patterns. The basic patterns that all things are made by on earth and throughout the cosmos have been known for thousands of years. The Great Pyramids were built having this pattern and the Greek Partheon as well. This pattern has been given different names throughout history. Phidias (500 BC -432 BC) was a Greek sculptor who applied it to the design of sculptures and Plato (428 BC - 347 BC) considered it to be the most binding of all mathematical relationships and the key to the physics of the cosmos. Euclid (365 BC-307 BC) reffered to it as a dvividing line in the extreme and mean ratio and it was used to term it as " The Golden Mean" and this division line is also known as the Golden section, Golden ratio and The Divine proportion. Our Creator is truly an artist and the " Divine Proportion" was used by the greatest artist to achieve balance and beauty and Leonardo Da Vinci used it to define all the fundamental proportions of his painting of " The Last Supper".
Yes, the Fibonacci Sequence shows up quite often. It does not have anything to do with god, but rather with how things grow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#87735 Apr 26, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, the Fibonacci Sequence shows up quite often. It does not have anything to do with god, but rather with how things grow:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number
Yes, and these patterns have been from the creation of all our universe.

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#87736 Apr 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>we are.
What proof do you have to compliment your theory.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#87737 Apr 26, 2013
My Portal wrote:
<quoted text>What proof do you have to compliment your theory.
http://www.pnas.org/content/104/52/20753

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#87739 Apr 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
= Infinity of Creation + Evolution
Hmmm! Infinity falls under which context?

Level 2

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#87741 Apr 26, 2013
My Portal wrote:
<quoted text>What proof do you have to compliment your theory.
Thanks for that question. Baseless assertions and nothing more.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#87742 Apr 26, 2013
MikeF wrote:
it's pointless, Mike. he's even worse than chuckie.(i know, that's hard to believe.) but My Portal will not just deny the facts you provide, he will deny that you ever even posted it. over and over again...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#87743 Apr 26, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>it's pointless, Mike. he's even worse than chuckie.(i know, that's hard to believe.) but My Portal will not just deny the facts you provide, he will deny that you ever even posted it. over and over again...
No doubt. That's the second one I've posed in answer to his question. He ignored the first one so I'm sure you are right that he will ignore the second.

But it is reassuring to confirm the dishonesty.

Level 2

Since: Apr 13

Location hidden

#87744 Apr 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Thanks for that question. Baseless assertions and nothing more.
He/She is beginning to be a joke. He/She keeps making all these empty assertions and when ask to back them up with links and proof, they claim they already have. It claims he is a conservative but no one else is, but can't explain what the difference are. He/She either has an unhealthy imagination or is about a bubble off plumb. Wasting time with this type is just that, a waste. Liberals always push for power over others, they have no principle to stand on.

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