Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
KJV

United States

#87596 Apr 24, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>if the existence of an egg, or our world is proof of god, then it is also proof of every other creation myth. what you really just said is there are thousands of gods proven...
Still waiting on the list......
Mark

United States

#87597 Apr 24, 2013
thewordofme wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus, of course, knew about Moses and Adam and Eve and all the OT characters because he was a teacher/rabbi and had access to the Torah/Tanakh/Nevi'im, what-have-you in the Jewish world.
However speaking of Jesus lets back up a bit. We know that Adam and Eve as written in the Bible did not exist....they are simply mythical characters.
We know this from archaeology, paleoanthropology, and DNA.
So if they did not exist, there would not be that 'original sin' that Paul writes about---would there??
No 'original sin' equals no need for Jesus.
So, basically you can apologize and double-speak all you want, but we KNOW what REALLY happened
So your not going to read Denton and Behe? well think about it, i guess it may only be for a Big Mac and not worth the trouble.(My plane ticket ratio would be big numbers).

So you start with Adam and Eve again. That brings up a good question, how did a male and female evolve in parallel by all these blood-thursty accidents and chances, then flip/flop in feelings and fall in love, and if not, where are these evolutionary mismatches taking place today? Where did courship and sexual attraction come from? Not cannabulism for sure. How about human feelings, emotion and so forth? I asked this question to C. Patterson and he said Mark, I don't know, meaning if I told you I would lose my job. Why if evo was true, this should be going on everywhere but it is not!

But wait, according to "punctuated equilibrium" (a new and convenient mechanism of SJ Gould) we can't see it because it all happened quickly in a corner somewhere, leaving no fossil evidence. Goosh, that was a close one, now i feel better and more scientific.

KJV

United States

#87598 Apr 24, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You have produced ZERO evidence of lies from the bible, you just quoted some unknown baloney from some hayseed either real or imagined or something you came up with trying to refute scripture which you know very little about.
He's got nothing. Nothing more then a buffoon. Pay him no heed. He has not once offered anything new to the form.
He's like a tick just there to suck blood and be as menacing as a tiny tick can be.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87599 Apr 24, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
So your not going to read Denton and Behe? well think about it, i guess it may only be for a Big Mac and not worth the trouble.(My plane ticket ratio would be big numbers).
So you start with Adam and Eve again. That brings up a good question, how did a male and female evolve in parallel by all these blood-thursty accidents and chances, then flip/flop in feelings and fall in love, and if not, where are these evolutionary mismatches taking place today? Where did courship and sexual attraction come from? Not cannabulism for sure. How about human feelings, emotion and so forth? I asked this question to C. Patterson and he said Mark, I don't know, meaning if I told you I would lose my job. Why if evo was true, this should be going on everywhere but it is not!
But wait, according to "punctuated equilibrium" (a new and convenient mechanism of SJ Gould) we can't see it because it all happened quickly in a corner somewhere, leaving no fossil evidence. Goosh, that was a close one, now i feel better and more scientific.
Mark, your idea of how evolution works is nonsensical.

You are building a straw man. Your conception of evolution is wrong and is easily debunked. Not so with how evolution actually happens.

There are no "evolutionary mismatches". What makes you think that they exist.

When evolution happens it happens to populations, not to individuals.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87600 Apr 24, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"You think this magical 'being' or 'thing' interferes in human affairs—is "
I believe he use to. He no longer does.
My, my how CONVENIENT. LOL

In ancient, pre-historic, pre-literate times, your God interferes constantly in humanity's life, appearing as burning bushes, killing everything and everyone on earth on a whim, talking through snakes and asses, etc.(Just like ancient fables WOULD naturally describe a divine being).

And now today, in our modern, scientific age, when humanity no longer see spiritual life in quite the same primitive way the Bronze Agers did, now you claim your God "no longer interferes in human life."

Again, how CONVENIENT for you!
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You find this amazing? God created man and Gods rules and you find that man wanting to live by these God made rules amazing? Really?
Maybe you just never really though that part through.
It's YOU who is as shallow as a birdbath, moron.

He's saying that the vengeful, man-made desires early man saw all around them -- tyrannical tribal patriarchs who ordered people killed who disagreed with them or to keep people in line and subjugated, etc.-- look and sound an awful lot like your Bible God, not surprisingly, since human beings composed the stories about your God and made him like a human tribal leader writ large and living up in the sky. He pouts, gets mad, occasionally behaves benignly, threatens people constantly and tortures them forever in his little torture chamber if they displease him by not worshipping him by just the right name.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87601 Apr 24, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
He's got nothing. Nothing more then a buffoon. Pay him no heed. He has not once offered anything new to the form.
He's like a tick just there to suck blood and be as menacing as a tiny tick can be.
No, we have plenty of evidence. The problem is that you don't have the ability to recognize evidence.

I have offered more than once to help you to learn what is and what is not evidence. Of course if that happened then you would be obviously lying if you tried to deny evidence again.

So ignorance is your best defense. It is only convincing to other creatards, so it really is not the best of strategies.
KJV

United States

#87602 Apr 24, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>From Bart Ehrman's "Jesus, Interrupted" pages 25-27
.
Matthew 12:40 and discover the true story. Jesus said, "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Now turn to John 11:9 and read this rhetorical question by Jesus, "Are there not twelve hours of daylight?" By putting these two verses together we see Jesus establishes he would spend in the heart of the earth 36 hours (3x12) for day and 36 hours (3x12) for night. Therefore, we know the three days and three nights he spoke of in Matthew 12 would have to equal 72 hours. In John 19:31 we read, "Now it was the day of Preparation, and the next day was to be a special Sabbath…" Therefore, we see that the Sabbath in John 19:31 is not the regular Saturday Sabbath observed on
non-festival weeks, but rather a special Passover Sabbath, which commenced on Wednesday at sunset, rather than Friday at sunset. Not only did it start on Wednesday at sunset... but it continued on through three days until Saturday at sunset when the Passover celebration ended. This is why you read about the women returning to Jesus' tomb early on the first day of the week (Sunday). This is because the special 3 day Sabbath had ended and they were very eager to get back to the tomb to add more spices to his body. So now that we see Jesus was crucified on Wednesday, let's go to Luke 23: 44-46 to pinpoint the time he died. "It was now about the sixth hour, and darkness came over the whole land until the ninth hour… Jesus called out with a loud voice, Father into your hands I commit
my spirit. When he had said this, he breathed his last." When it says the ninth hour, it means the ninth hour since the break of day. In other words, it was about three o'clock in the afternoon when Jesus died. Then after obtaining permission from Pilate,(which could have easily taken 1-2 hours) Jesus was taken down from the cross and hurriedly buried just before sundown, probably sometime around 6:00 p.m. Remember that Jewish Sabbath days begins at sundown on one day and end at sundown the next. In Leviticus 23:32, God stated, "From the evening… until the following evening you are to observe your Sabbath." So if you count 72 hours from late Wednesday afternoon at around 5-6:00 p.m., you will see that Jesus would have risen and left his tomb at around 5-6:00 p.m. on Saturday. Therefore, a Sunday resurrection is not what the Bible reveals to us at all.

Continued.....
KJV

United States

#87603 Apr 24, 2013
We do read in Luke 24: 1-3, "On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. They found the stone rolled away from the tomb, but when they entered, they did not find the body of the Lord Jesus." Clearly, those who arrived at the tomb early Sunday morning discovered an empty tomb, not Jesus rising from the dead in front of them. So to answer your question… "How did Jesus die on Friday and rise on Sunday and is said to have been dead for 3 days?" He didn't die on Friday… being the Son of God, his divine spirit departed his human body while on the cross Wednesday afternoon, his earthly body was then placed in a tomb near sunset that same day. His spirit returned to his body at sunset on Saturday to resurrect as a glorified earthly body. His body was soon discovered missing from the tomb early Sunday morning by his followers.
Which begs the question - where did his spirit go for those three days? Many bible verses are involved, but the summary is this... he went to Paradise (in the heart of the earth) and took all there to heaven. Paradise was a temporal place for believers of the "Coming Messiah" from the Garden of Eden to The Cross. The last person to enter Paradise was one of the criminals who hung on the cross next to Jesus. The reason believers of the "Coming Messiah" could not enter heaven upon their death, was due to the fact that Jesus had to die on the cross for the sins of all mankind - past, present and
future so they could obtain right standing with God through the substitutionary atonement of His death on the cross. Jesus rightfully so... went straight to Paradise to bring the Old Testament believers to heaven, as they now had right standing with God. In Paradise were famous believers like Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Daniel, Jeremiah, and many others too numerous to list. As well as the throngs of nameless believers of the Old Testament. Therefore, Jesus was quite busy those three days with moving multitudes of believers from Paradise to Heaven, and getting them settled into their new mansion homes in heaven. What a glorious time that must have been! Three days later, he returned to his human body on earth, rose from the dead, and remained on earth for an additional forty days. He performed many important tasks during this time, with the most important being to prepare the disciples for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, ten days after his ascension, on the Day of Pentecost.

http://carm.org/how-long-was-jesus-dead-tomb
KJV

United States

#87604 Apr 24, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>you can start listing that evidence anytime now...yet you never do.. not even once. why?
Lets see your list.....
KJV

United States

#87605 Apr 24, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
<quoted text>Time and energy requires the space/time continuum to exist.
Without the linear progression known as the arrow of time, space cannot in any dimension nor can energy can exist.
It is but as singular point, or singularity.
Ok so you believe a singularity existed when there was no time?
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#87606 Apr 24, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
So your not going to read Denton and Behe? well think about it, i guess it may only be for a Big Mac and not worth the trouble.(My plane ticket ratio would be big numbers).
So you start with Adam and Eve again. That brings up a good question, how did a male and female evolve in parallel by all these blood-thursty accidents and chances, then flip/flop in feelings and fall in love, and if not, where are these evolutionary mismatches taking place today? Where did courship and sexual attraction come from? Not cannabulism for sure. How about human feelings, emotion and so forth? I asked this question to C. Patterson and he said Mark, I don't know, meaning if I told you I would lose my job. Why if evo was true, this should be going on everywhere but it is not!
But wait, according to "punctuated equilibrium" (a new and convenient mechanism of SJ Gould) we can't see it because it all happened quickly in a corner somewhere, leaving no fossil evidence. Goosh, that was a close one, now i feel better and more scientific.
You're stupid and WAY, WAY over your head in trying to talk about evolution.

Also, learn to spell, dunce. You embarrass yourself. AND your Cheeses.
KJV

United States

#87608 Apr 24, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>My, my how CONVENIENT. LOL

In ancient, pre-historic, pre-literate times, your God interferes constantly in humanity's life, appearing as burning bushes, killing everything and everyone on earth on a whim, talking through snakes and asses, etc.(Just like ancient fables WOULD naturally describe a divine being).

And now today, in our modern, scientific age, when humanity no longer see spiritual life in quite the same primitive way the Bronze Agers did, now you claim your God "no longer interferes in human life."

Again, how CONVENIENT for you!

KJV wrote, "<quoted text>
You find this amazing? God created man and Gods rules and you find that man wanting to live by these God made rules amazing? Really?
Maybe you just never really though that part through. "

It's YOU who is as shallow as a birdbath, moron.

He's saying that the vengeful, man-made desires early man saw all around them -- tyrannical tribal patriarchs who ordered people killed who disagreed with them or to keep people in line and subjugated, etc.-- look and sound an awful lot like your Bible God, not surprisingly, since human beings composed the stories about your God and made him like a human tribal leader writ large and living up in the sky. He pouts, gets mad, occasionally behaves benignly, threatens people constantly and tortures them forever in his little torture chamber if they displease him by not worshipping him by just the right name.
" During the lifetime of Jesus, the holy temple in Jerusalem was the center of Jewish religious life. The temple was the place where animal sacrifices were carried out and worship according to the Law of Moses was followed faithfully. Hebrews 9:1-9 tells us that in the temple a veil separated the Holy of Holies—the earthly dwelling place of God’s presence—from the rest of the temple where men dwelt. This signified that man was separated from God by sin (Isaiah 59:1-2). Only the high priest was permitted to pass beyond this veil once each year (Exodus 30:10; Hebrews 9:7) to enter into God's presence for all of Israel and make atonement for their sins (Leviticus 16).

Solomon's temple was 30 cubits high (1 Kings 6:2), but Herod had increased the height to 40 cubits, according to the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. There is uncertainty as to the exact measurement of a cubit, but it is safe to assume that this veil was somewhere near 60 feet high. Josephus also tells us that the veil was four inches thick and that horses tied to each side could not pull the veil apart. The book of Exodus teaches that this thick veil was fashioned from blue, purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen.

The size and thickness of the veil makes the events occurring at the moment of Jesus’ death on the cross so much more momentous.“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom”(Matthew 27:50-51a).

So, what do we make of this? What significance does this torn veil have for us today? Above all, the tearing of the veil at the moment of Jesus' death dramatically symbolized that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for sins. It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, for all time, both Jew and Gentile."
KJV

United States

#87609 Apr 24, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>My, my how CONVENIENT. LOL

In ancient, pre-historic, pre-literate times, your God interferes constantly in humanity's life, appearing as burning bushes, killing everything and everyone on earth on a whim, talking through snakes and asses, etc.(Just like ancient fables WOULD naturally describe a divine being).

And now today, in our modern, scientific age, when humanity no longer see spiritual life in quite the same primitive way the Bronze Agers did, now you claim your God "no longer interferes in human life."

Again, how CONVENIENT for you!

KJV wrote, "<quoted text>
You find this amazing? God created man and Gods rules and you find that man wanting to live by these God made rules amazing? Really?
Maybe you just never really though that part through. "

It's YOU who is as shallow as a birdbath, moron.

He's saying that the vengeful, man-made desires early man saw all around them -- tyrannical tribal patriarchs who ordered people killed who disagreed with them or to keep people in line and subjugated, etc.-- look and sound an awful lot like your Bible God, not surprisingly, since human beings composed the stories about your God and made him like a human tribal leader writ large and living up in the sky. He pouts, gets mad, occasionally behaves benignly, threatens people constantly and tortures them forever in his little torture chamber if they displease him by not worshipping him by just the right name.
"When Jesus died, the veil was torn, and God moved out of that place never again to dwell in a temple made with hands (Acts 17:24). God was through with that temple and its religious system, and the temple and Jerusalem were left “desolate”(destroyed by the Romans) in A.D. 70, just as Jesus prophesied in Luke 13:35. As long as the temple stood, it signified the continuation of the Old Covenant. Hebrews 9:8-9 refers to the age that was passing away as the new covenant was being established (Hebrews 8:13).

In a sense, the veil was symbolic of Christ Himself as the only way to the Father (John 14:6). This is indicated by the fact that the high priest had to enter the Holy of Holies through the veil. Now Christ is our superior High Priest, and as believers in His finished work, we partake of His better priesthood. We can now enter the Holy of Holies through Him. Hebrews 10:19-20 says that the faithful enter into the sanctuary by the “blood of Jesus, by the new and living way which he opened for us through the veil, that is, through his flesh.” Here we see the image of Jesus’ flesh being torn for us just as He was tearing the veil for us.

The veil being torn from top to bottom is a fact of history. The profound significance of this event is explained in glorious detail in Hebrews. The things of the temple were shadows of things to come, and they all ultimately point us to Jesus Christ. He was the veil to the Holy of Holies, and through His death the faithful now have free access to God.

The veil in the temple was a constant reminder that sin renders humanity unfit for the presence of God. The fact that the sin offering was offered annually and countless other sacrifices repeated daily showed graphically that sin could not truly be atoned for or erased by mere animal sacrifices. Jesus Christ, through His death, has removed the barriers between God and man, and now we may approach Him with confidence and boldness (Hebrews 4:14-16)."

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/temple-veil-torn....
KJV

United States

#87610 Apr 24, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>No, we have plenty of evidence. The problem is that you don't have the ability to recognize evidence.

I have offered more than once to help you to learn what is and what is not evidence. Of course if that happened then you would be obviously lying if you tried to deny evidence again.

So ignorance is your best defense. It is only convincing to other creatards, so it really is not the best of strategies.
Nice to see you include yourself in that insult. I guess if the shoe fits.

“ The Lord of delirious minds.”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

Location hidden

#87611 Apr 24, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok so you believe a singularity existed when there was no time?
Basically that is exactly what it was, where everything was compressed into a single point, where gravity time energy are compressed infinitely and have no existence apart from each other,
Everything is merged into a singularity and no force has a independent meaning.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#87612 Apr 24, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice to see you include yourself in that insult. I guess if the shoe fits.
What insult? I am clearly not a creatard.

I know what qualifies as scientific evidence.

The invitation is still open. I am more than happy to teach what is evidence.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#87614 Apr 24, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
Some of you people don't understand our Creator....
I'll stop you there.

Because, in reality (a difficult concept for you I am lead to believe), YOU don't "UNDERSTAND" the Creator (if there IS one), any more than anyone else.

No more than the Pope, nor your own Preacher or Pastor. Or any more -- or less -- than me or anyone else on these threads or anyone else that have ever lived.

Including the persons who wrote/translated/edited the Bible.


“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tempe, AZ.

#87615 Apr 24, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
" During the lifetime of Jesus, the holy temple in Jerusalem was the center of Jewish religious life. The temple was the place where animal sacrifices were carried out and worship according to the Law of Moses was followed faithfully. Hebrews 9:1-9 tells us that in the temple a veil separated the Holy of Holies—the earthly dwelling place of God’s presence—from the rest of the temple where men dwelt. This signified that man was separated from God by sin (Isaiah 59:1-2). Only the high priest was permitted to pass beyond this veil once each year (Exodus 30:10; Hebrews 9:7) to enter into God's presence for all of Israel and make atonement for their sins (Leviticus 16).
Solomon's temple was 30 cubits high (1 Kings 6:2), but Herod had increased the height to 40 cubits, according to the writings of Josephus, a first century Jewish historian. There is uncertainty as to the exact measurement of a cubit, but it is safe to assume that this veil was somewhere near 60 feet high. Josephus also tells us that the veil was four inches thick and that horses tied to each side could not pull the veil apart. The book of Exodus teaches that this thick veil was fashioned from blue, purple and scarlet material and fine twisted linen.
The size and thickness of the veil makes the events occurring at the moment of Jesus’ death on the cross so much more momentous.“And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit. At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom”(Matthew 27:50-51a).
So, what do we make of this? What significance does this torn veil have for us today? Above all, the tearing of the veil at the moment of Jesus' death dramatically symbolized that His sacrifice, the shedding of His own blood, was a sufficient atonement for sins. It signified that now the way into the Holy of Holies was open for all people, for all time, both Jew and Gentile."
Yeah and there was also an earthquake, the Sun was occulted and the dead arose from a cemetery and walked into town (zombies)---all of which was never recorded by any seculars.

Your book is SOooo screwed up.

“The Intrepid”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#87616 Apr 24, 2013
Lil Ticked wrote:
<quoted text>Freud was a fraud.
Is that your shadow speaking? ;)

“The Intrepid”

Since: Jun 10

Location hidden

#87617 Apr 24, 2013
Aura Mytha wrote:
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
"There ARE NO observable , testable , and repeatable natural events that led to life. To say otherwise is to lie."
If we change this wording to....
"There ARE NO observable , testable , and repeatable natural events that led to the first living organisms . To say otherwise is to lie."
It's still incorrect.
There is observable evidence that it maybe possible life arose from natural events .
Such as...
The geological history of Earth itself.
The evolution of DNA itself.
The finding of complex organic compounds, that are the precursors of DNA itself exist in space.
The finding of the the first formations of life on Earth, along with it's record of evolutionary history.
The finding of extremophiles that could exist in the hostile environment of the early Earth.
So you see
There have also been repeatable experiments performed that tested natural events that could have possibly led to the first life.
Miller/Urey specifically amongst others such as ..
The successful creation of RNA that replicates itself.
But you are correct that we haven't been able to repeat the creation of life yet, though we ARE closing in on "how".
So 2 of the 3 prove that saying it maybe possible that life could have arisen by natural causes,
is not a lie.
Wow, you really had me going with all the "maybe" and "could be possible"/s. lol, yer a real hoot, gooberstank.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Atheism - A Non Prophet Organisation (Mar '11) 3 hr Al the Scot 997
How would creationists explain... 4 hr Dogen 449
god is not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (Jun '06) 4 hr Ooogah Boogah 13,641
Intelligent Design: Still Dead [EvolutionBlog] 8 hr geezerjock 1
Why Are There No Transitional Animals Today? (Mar '09) 8 hr The Dude 514
Evolutionists staes that white people are more ... (Jun '06) 12 hr spiderlover 77
Science News (Sep '13) Sat Hatti_Hollerand 2,948
More from around the web