Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 223384 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82967 Mar 26, 2013
nanoanomaly wrote:
<quoted text>It was believers in creation who began the campaign against slavery in America.
" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abolitionism&quo... ;
I don't see atheists' objections recorded there. They must have wanted to keep a low profile.
Probably.(shrug) They tended to back in those days. It's also worth keeping in mind that those who fought abolition used the Bible as justification. In fact in the Carribean they were toying with the idea of seceeding from the Brits and joining the US.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82968 Mar 26, 2013
Gael wrote:
I have concluded after reading all these arguments that it's a lot less taxing to just believe that God did it.
Indeed.

The problem is when those who think like that attempt to replace education with that very same lack of thinking.

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#82969 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I must beg to differ on your wording here. They are being manipulated by fear, specifically the fear of not knowing or admitting to not knowing, thus they must claim to know. Also, those who admit they don't know are just honest. ;) Honesty is a far more endearing trait than faith.
LOL... yes, I won't POE here. Thus,'thrall' of religion, any religion uses 'magic' or Psychological trickery as a form of control. I have faith in something I can't even put into words and I'm honest about the fact that I don't know. No one knows. Aliens? The Universal string that holds all things together? A giant bearded man? A light? Alanis Morriset? We don't know. To say a Creative force does not exist or say that it does, well, it's foolish :)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82970 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> English belongs to the English, yes or no?
Did they colonised any colonies?
Did they offer free, expensive or affordable education?
Just answer the questions.
There we go! Barking on command. Good doggie!
FREE SERVANT
#82971 Mar 26, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>How does a language belong to someone or group of people? Does your shadow really belong to you? Does a whistle belong to the whistler or the hearer? I suppose in terms of intellectual property, a work of art or effort belongs to the person that made it. Metallica fought Napster to prevent them from facilitating free downloads of their music because it was their intellectual property, but I can still sing their songs if I choose to while idly musing. But this is not the same thing as a language. They carefully selected the words and music to produce a piece of music. Language developed over time often from pre-existing languages. They are influenced by and added to all the time. New words are created and old ones fall out of use. Over time the meaning of words can change. Personally, I reject the notion that language of a people is owned by those people, especially in the sense you have described in the past.
I think these are questions you should put to God in a dream.
Where does vision come from when it comes to something original? Could this be a gift? Why does it happen if it isn't meant to be?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82972 Mar 26, 2013
LupyLu wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL... yes, I won't POE here. Thus,'thrall' of religion, any religion uses 'magic' or Psychological trickery as a form of control. I have faith in something I can't even put into words and I'm honest about the fact that I don't know. No one knows. Aliens? The Universal string that holds all things together? A giant bearded man? A light? Alanis Morriset? We don't know. To say a Creative force does not exist or say that it does, well, it's foolish :)
I hope it's not Alanis ... not sure I could handle an afterlife with her for long.:P
FREE SERVANT
#82973 Mar 26, 2013
Dreams and visions are given to young and old, who are meant to have them.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82974 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Gilette, as one who has worked in coal mines doing engineering/technology work off and on for over 20 years,(still ongoing), your post is really telling to me. What you have proved to me is the only knowledge you have on the subject is some cut and paste work from a few web sites. Long time ago they replicated coal formation in a period of hours using mostly bark material. If such material is covered with an overburden,(you may look up "overburden" on wiki) coal forms quickly from the weight of it. I know of no seam anywhere that shows uniform time extended erosion (look up "uniformity" or "uniformitarianism" on wiki) with any time element, otherwise I would not advocate my alternate view of geology, if it all doesn't fit, I don't compartmenalize. A miner often has to blast out petrified trees and stumps in the seams, these extending into the overburden which are mostly sandstone. Sometimes they hit oil,(decayed animals). Saw one of our mine's recently shut down over this. The whole concept of swamp formed coal is just a story in the evo textbooks. We have one mine that has Dino tracks protruding imprinted down from the lithified overburden at the 10K level in the Rockies, I wonder what he was running from up there? I will tell you ICR's work by Steve Austin is right on here, Steve has his PhD from Penn State on the subject. One should be careful of quoting current dogma on these matters unless they are your day job or you have worked the rocks yourself. It all fits for me.
M
Nice appeal to authority (not even counting yourself there). To a bunch of liars for Jesus no less.

Yes, the geological paradigm is also part of the evil world-wide atheist Darwinist conspiracy.

Sorry, TIME-TRAVELLING conspiracy.

As the Earth was accepted as being older than the YEC's thought before evolution was being worked out.

Oh, congratulations for killing everything on Earth again. Because bear in mind your position requires all elements in the universe to be affected by extreme ages in the same way.

But it's okay since evidence is superfluous when your position is GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC.

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#82975 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I hope it's not Alanis ... not sure I could handle an afterlife with her for long.:P
LOL... yeah, I concur.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#82976 Mar 26, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Where does vision come from when it comes to something original? Could this be a gift? Why does it happen if it isn't meant to be?
Light passes through the lens and is detected by the photosensitive cells in the back of the eye. This gets processed by the brain as an image. There, that's vision.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82977 Mar 26, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Who among us can claim with a straight face to know the ways of God. Are you moving from presumptive supplicant to deity status Charles?
Isn't that what all fundies do?(shrug) HOG certainly was yesterday.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82978 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Wrong. When humans are asleep, they are semi- dead or lifeless.
God is at work.
If that's the case then you spend your entire life asleep. Now put down the bong.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82979 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
You need a mechanism that makes sense is repeatable and must be observed working in the cell. Piles of evo based studies, articles and illustrations don't make the cell capable of positive self-change to create chemical to man evolution, period.
All evolution needs is life. We have life. Life evolves. Facts. Observed. Repeatable. Testable. Just because you are ignorant of reality doesn't make science wrong.
Mark wrote:
Denton
accepts evolution. I told you ages ago you're out of date and lying.
Mark wrote:
fixed it, non-related genes controlling the development of parallel appendages and organs! In other words, the genes must be simultaneously altered in exactly the same manner at exactly the same time for the creature to be functional and live. And not just one pair of genes, all the other one's related to the total function of the target appendages! Evolution doesn't' have any mechanism in the cell that works for it, and it must have one to be valid.
Also answered ages ago. Bilateral symmetry. Just because you don't understand science doesn't mean it's wrong.
Mark wrote:
As an engineer, all we do is design to make things work to get paid. In theoretical evolutionary science, most article's must mention evo at least in the subtitle to get published. The study maybe guessing about perceived things that supposedly happened in the past, most just reverberate the dogma and make it happen a long time back, a nice story, but that doesn't fly with me. It starts in the cell and ends there. I have seen contra-human evolution findings in these articles: Khaitvich 2005. Science, Zeng, 2012. American Journal of Human Genetics , Martin, 2011. Genome Research.
You're lying and saying it's a big conspiracy. Fact is funding would be cut if evolution didn't work.
Mark wrote:
If mutations work positive change then it should have been replicated in the lab log ago.
It was.
Mark wrote:
In the study of fruit fly generations,(where thousands of them were exposed to every conceivable external variable) all they generally got was degeneration, not regeneration, just as the operating mechanism of the cell demands!
This talk of all this data self-writing via mindless self-directed upward change in these super-complex organisms is flatly absurd and has no basis in common experience or reason.
False.
Mark wrote:
The assertion that DNA or mtDNA is not analogous to code is a lie.
Then you should be the first man in history to tell us all what the "code" is and the mechanisms responsible for it.

You won't.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#82980 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
The cell is a super-miniature, ultra-complex molecular chemical machine, needs fuel, has motion and unlike the 747 you mentioned, can repair and replicate itself! So what you are saying is that the bio-machine is more complex than any of man's machines
So you're saying it's LIKE a machine yet nothing like any of our machines therefore someone made it. Brilliant.
Mark wrote:
yet is formed by accident without intelligence!
The age old straw-man of "accident", totally ignoring natural selection and emergent properties. But for some reason many fundies think that the best place to critique a concept is from pure ignorance and learn nothing at all about it.

Then claim Goddidit with magic.
Mark wrote:
One in experience is obvious: intelligence operating on matter to make something
Via what mechanisms and what evidence do you have?

Been waiting for this for THOUSANDS of years.

Lemme guess, we'll find out when Jesus comes back and we'll be sorry?
Mark wrote:
the other in the evolutionary paradigm is not obvious in experience nor operationally
Incorrect:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/T9Q...
Mark wrote:
mindless, self-directed and accidental in nature but more complex than anything man can conceive or create in reality! Where is the reason and logic here? So please, I have no pseudoscience motive as you assert, you have your belief, I will have mine.
Reason and logic are not part of your repetiore therefore you wouldn't know it to trip over it. That's why you've been wiping out all life over and over ever since you got here and saying it doesn't matter because Godmagic can fix that. In the meantime we have 150 years of scientific research to back us up and all you guys can do is beat up the caricature version of biology instead of address the real thing.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#82981 Mar 26, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice appeal to authority (not even counting yourself there). To a bunch of liars for Jesus no less.
Yes, the geological paradigm is also part of the evil world-wide atheist Darwinist conspiracy.
Sorry, TIME-TRAVELLING conspiracy.
As the Earth was accepted as being older than the YEC's thought before evolution was being worked out.
Oh, congratulations for killing everything on Earth again. Because bear in mind your position requires all elements in the universe to be affected by extreme ages in the same way.
But it's okay since evidence is superfluous when your position is GODDIDIT WITH MAGIC.
MAGIC!

Yeah, that was it!

&fe ature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Level 6

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#82982 Mar 26, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>MAGIC!
Yeah, that was it!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =I225Vcs3X0gXX&feature=em- subs_digest-vrecs
LOL! I knew it!

A gift;

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82983 Mar 26, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Where does vision come from when it comes to something original? Could this be a gift? Why does it happen if it isn't meant to be?
No, just the subconcious mind working...proven fact.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#82984 Mar 26, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Lucid dreaming is a real thing, and many people practice it all the time.
Personally, I think they're nuts, I prefer the random story being told to help spark the creative processes, guiding them is too much control.
for several years i kept a dream log to better remember my dreams. it works very well. one of the side benefits for many is the increase in lucid dreaming and even being able to control lucid dreaming to a much greater extent. i never started a drream topic on my own, not sure if one can, but i have changed many dreams and controlled them for quite a while. once even floated into the room i was sleepong in and looked at myself...with the book i had been reading plopped on my chest where it had fell...very cool!

an out of body experience without a need of a mythical soul!

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#82985 Mar 26, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text>Oh!
Do you have a sad personality defect?
Please re-read my post –

Here, let me requote my words so it’s no so confusing for you

“…you have a sad personality defect”…

“Be strong ...”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

...I whispered to my coffee

#82986 Mar 26, 2013
Mark wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty good logic, only that the continents submerged under the weight of the water and resurfaced after the num of days recorded by Noah. Stand upon the edges of the broken crustal basalts @ the Great Unconformity and fear miss. I have.
Say what??? No logic involved, just pure science, mathematics and physical facts

Or are you saying that you have physical evidence to confirm Noah’s flood, which proves science wrong? May I suggest you publish this and make yourself the person who proved the babble correct, you would be rich and famous beyond avarice, church leaders would be beating a path to you door requesting an interview. Are you any good at walking on water too?

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