Err, explain to us exactly how this "unconformity" is somehow proof of a young earth and an accurate Genesis creation story?<quoted text>
So because the pics are pretty good I used Wiki. All over the earth my friend. Every poster on this site needs to be honest with themselves and think about what this means. I do this because I care about every one of you. Now you have seen it, a sermon in the rocks.
Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.
#82603 Mar 24, 2013
#82604 Mar 24, 2013
It is historical fact that the people of the middle east at that time, including the people of Israel, conceived of the earth as a flat disc with a dome over it.
The Flat Earth model is an archaic belief that the Earth's shape is a plane or disk. Many ancient cultures have had conceptions of a flat Earth, including Greece until the classical period, the Bronze Age and Iron Age civilizations of the Near East until the Hellenistic period, India until the Gupta period (early centuries AD) and China until the 17th century. It was also typically held in the aboriginal cultures of the Americas, and a flat Earth domed by the firmament in the shape of an inverted bowl is common in pre-scientific societies. The Jewish conception of a flat earth is found in biblical and post biblical times.
#82605 Mar 24, 2013
Incorrect. Since the Bible does not contain a specific astronomical lesson from your God, we BOTH are free to examine the textual evidence.
I've given 3 long, detailed posts which show how extensive the "flat earth" assumption of the Bible's writers was.
See the four posts here:
You've quoted Isaiah 40 a lot. A circle is not a sphere. A circle is drawn in two dimensions. In fact, the word "chug" also means elsewhere in the Bible the instrument known as a compass, which is used, of course. to draw a FLAT, TWO-DIMENSIONAL OBJECT, the circle.
Some people on the earth at that time did know it. Many educated Greeks did. Many sailors did.
But the uneducated, untraveled populace of the middle east, including Babylon and Israel believed in a flat disc with pillars covered by a disc with holes in it for the rain and with lights attached to it, etc.
Since: Sep 08
#82606 Mar 24, 2013
I am not a student of ancient Hebrew. The existence of a ball and other spherical objects means that they did not need a name for the geometric name for a sphere to describe one.
Remember this was all in response to YOUR idiotic statement that the Hebrews did not have a word for sphere.
Yes, they could have. I am not telling them what they had to do. The problem for you deniers of the fact is that not only do they use the word for flat, in context they imply a flat Earth.
So let me get this straight. Since we now know that the Earth is spherical, and even though the Hebrews used the word for a flat Earth and described a flat Earth we are supposed to believe that they really meant that the Earth was round simply because they did not have a word for sphere.
Does that sound reasonable to anyone?
Oversimplified and incorrect. I know you love Wiki so:http://en.wikipedia.org/wik i/Galileo_affair
You are taking your script directly from a Catholic apologist site.
This time I think I will go with Wiki.
<snip of repeated garbage>
I certainly would. Gravity is one of the most least understood products of nature. We have several theories on why and how it works but no clear answer outside of anecdotal Newtonian understandings.
No, your own arrogant idiocy is what makes you dishonest.
You made an exceptionally stupid statement. You probably don't know how idiotic it was. That was what started all of this.
In a pathetic attempt to defend your statement your other prejudices are becoming apparent.
Since: Sep 08
#82607 Mar 24, 2013
Okay so what do you want to know about the "great unconformity" It is not a term in common usage today, but it is still easy to explain.
Since: Sep 08
#82608 Mar 24, 2013
There are unconformities all over the Earth. They are not all of the same age.
What do you think they are trying to tell us?
If you mention a flood I might die laughing. That is one way that this site could get rid of me.
#82609 Mar 24, 2013
What a bald-faced LIAR you are! WHile he did insult some people including Urban, he was tried FOR HIS DIEAS and because they contradicted the then-established INTERPRETATION of the Bible.
In September 1632, Galileo was ordered to come to Rome to stand trial. He finally arrived in February 1633 and was brought before inquisitor Vincenzo Maculani to be charged.
Throughout his trial Galileo steadfastly maintained that since 1616 he had faithfully kept his promise not to hold any of the condemned opinions, and initially he denied even defending them. However, he was eventually persuaded to admit that, contrary to his true intention, a reader of his Dialogue could well have obtained the impression that it was intended to be a defence of Copernicanism.
In view of Galileo's rather implausible denial that he had ever held Copernican ideas after 1616 or ever intended to defend them in the Dialogue, his final interrogation, in July 1633, concluded with his being threatened with torture if he did not tell the truth, but he maintained his denial despite the threat.
The sentence of the Inquisition was delivered on June 22. It was in three essential parts:
• Galileo was found "vehemently suspect of heresy", namely of having held the opinions that the Sun lies motionless at the centre of the universe, that the Earth is not at its centre and moves, and that one may hold and defend an opinion as probable after it has been declared contrary to Holy Scripture. He was required to "abjure, curse and detest" those opinions.
• He was sentenced to formal imprisonment at the pleasure of the Inquisition. On the following day this was commuted to house arrest, which he remained under for the rest of his life.
• His offending Dialogue was banned; and in an action not announced at the trial, publication of any of his works was forbidden, including any he might write in the future.
#82610 Mar 24, 2013
It is not a fact, it is a fallacy perpetuated by ignorance. People long ago knew the earth was round or more to the point being discussed, people in the times of the bible knew the world to be round. You bringing up china and india and all that is pointless because we aren't discussing the entire history of earth, we are discussing the history of people influenced by the bible. I said there was some people, but those some are not the ones being discussed. Please stay on topic.
#82611 Mar 24, 2013
Hog wash. There isn't much more to say about it.
#82612 Mar 24, 2013
From the New Advent CATHOLIC encyclopedia:
It was not until four years later that trouble arose, the ecclesiastical authorities taking alarm at the persistence with which Galileo proclaimed the truth of the Copernican doctrine. That their opposition was grounded, as is constantly assumed, upon a fear lest men should be enlightened by the diffusion of scientific truth, it is obviously absurd to maintain. On the contrary, they were firmly convinced, with Bacon and others, that the new teaching was radically false and unscientific, while it is now truly admitted that Galileo himself had no sufficient proof of what he so vehemently advocated, and Professor Huxley after examining the case avowed his opinion that the opponents of Galileo "had rather the best of it".
But what, more than all, raised alarm was anxiety for the credit of Holy Scripture, the letter of which was then universally believed to be the supreme authority in matters of science, as in all others.
When therefore it spoke of the sun staying his course at the prayer of Joshua, or the earth as being ever immovable, it was assumed that the doctrine of Copernicus and Galileo was anti-Scriptural; and therefore heretical.
In these circumstances, Galileo, hearing that some had denounced his doctrine as anti-Scriptural, presented himself at Rome in December, 1615, and was courteously received. He was presently interrogated before the Inquisition, which after consultation declared the system he upheld to be scientifically false, and anti-Scriptural or heretical, and that he must renounce it.
Then followed a decree of the Congregation of the Index dated 5 March 1616, prohibiting various heretical works to which were added any advocating the Copernican system.
In thus acting, it is undeniable that the ecclesiastical authorities committed a grave and deplorable error, and sanctioned an altogether false principle as to the proper use of Scripture. Galileo and Foscarini rightly urged that the Bible is intended to teach men to go to heaven, not how the heavens go.
End quote from the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA!
No mention there that Galileo was tried because he insulted the Pope, etc.
Since: Sep 08
#82613 Mar 24, 2013
You keep making this claim but provide no evidence at all backing your claim.
Without any evidence even Wiki beats you.
Since: Sep 08
#82614 Mar 24, 2013
Hogwash is putting what your church did rather lightly.
What your church did was much worse than hogwash. And when did they finally admit that they were wrong?
#82615 Mar 24, 2013
I didn't quote anything a lot. I do not normally go around quoting the bible. You should get your eyes checked or figure out how to deal with your reading comprehension problems. Many words in the bible have different meanings. No once have I seen any definition pertaining to the word used that has "flat" anywhere close to it. You infer it, the other idiot insists on it, but nowhere is there any definition with any credibility using it.
But I guess I will ask you the same of the previous idiot. Can you describe a ball without using the word sphere that does not fit the description of a circle. Without the term to delineate between the two, you simply cannot do it with the exception of demonsional which also wasn't a word at the time.
You fail just like the other idiot did. I do like how he called in backup though.
I don't believe I said no one ever thought the world was flat. I did however say that at the time of the writing of the bible, they knew it wasn't. Many stories of the bible take place at or near the sea, on or with ships of the sea, and there is no reason for the people to not understand the world at that time.
#82616 Mar 24, 2013
You pedophile priest motherfvcker, your Catholic Church tortured and killed people for their ideas!
Giordano Bruno was an Italian Dominican friar, philosopher, mathematician and astronomer. His cosmological theories went beyond the Copernican model in proposing that the Sun was essentially a star, and moreover, that the universe contained an infinite number of inhabited worlds populated by other intelligent beings.
After the Roman Inquisition found him guilty of heresy, he was burned at the stake.
 After his death he gained considerable fame, particularly among 19th- and early 20th-century commentators who, focusing on his astronomical beliefs, regarded him as a martyr for free thought and modern scientific ideas.
Your church in the middle ages waged a vicious and murderous campaign against scientific ideas. And your popes were in the front ranks!
#82617 Mar 24, 2013
Circles have been defined since the early Greeks (who invented geometry) as flat drawings in two dimensions.
Chug not only describes a flat circle earth, it is also used elsewhere in the Bible to describe the actual physical instrument known as a compass with which 2-dimensional object s are drawn.
Can you draw a 3-dimensional sphere with a compass? Good luck!
Since: Sep 08
#82619 Mar 24, 2013
Whoa! Way to break the Ninth Commandment tard.
You never asked me to describe a ball without using the word sphree that does not fit the description of a circle.
You said that I couldn't and I replied that I could. You never directly asked me and I was not going to volunteer anything to a dishonest a-hole like you.
There is only one idiot here and he has just been caught lying.
“Darwin was right..of course.”
Since: Jun 11
Evolution is true.....
#82620 Mar 24, 2013
Hello adif understanding, thanks for your reply.
“No, not really. You see, if the science is created as part of the creation, then all fits nicely together. 99% of the bible is not in contradiction with any science and the parts you think are- aren't important to everyday life.”
“You don't know what you are talking about.”
Well, I’m going to totally disagree with you here. The science you think is unimportant is going to tear apart the Christian Dogma, as I said earlier.
And I do know what I am talking about.
Your books of Genesis, Exodus, and Joshua are not true. Most everything in them is now disproven.
Does it matter to you that the age of the earth is solidly 4.8 billion +- years old??
Does it matter to you that Adam and Eve as written in the Bible never existed?? It should, because without their ‘Original Sin’ there is no need for Jesus to rid us poor humans of this sin, and he is left with an embarrassing lack of work to do.
So.…Hmm…. no Jesus, or at least a Jesus out of work. Might be important to the Christian Dogma don’t you think?
The Noachian flood has been disproven so many times, and in so many ways, I’m not even going to go there.
The Tower of Babel is so easy to discredit and disprove I won’t even bother except to say; it really isn’t true at all….proven untrue years ago (evidence available if you want).
The Exodus has fairly recently (early 1990’s) been listed as disproven. No evidence AT ALL has been found to support a million plus Hebrews walking the Sinai desert for forty years, despite over a hundred years of archaeologists scouring it. This conclusion has been reached by Israeli archaeologists who have searched both the desert and the scientific literature for years.
Moses, as the author of the Pentateuch, has been seriously doubted by probably the majority of Biblical scholars for most, or all, of a hundred years.
#82621 Mar 24, 2013
Does any of this matters? We are here, if we understood how, what change would occur?
#82622 Mar 24, 2013
You are right about one thing, you know nothing of ancient Hebrew. However, the existence of a toy does not mean they could only explain the shape the toy took with the word for the toy. This is a big failure for you as it is easily understood by other descriptions. I have repeatedly asked you to either find a word for sphere which you have not, I have repeatedly asked you to describe a sphere without using the word sphere which you have not. This entire discussion would be over if you did either. You won't though, because there isn't a word for sphere and if you described the sphere without using the word sphere, you would also be largely describing a circle.
Listen, the only way you get a flat earth is if you read the text wanting it to mean flat. It is all you reading into it. The verses do not say flat anywhere, the definition for the words do not say flat anywhere. It is all you implying what it says by inserting your own bias. The only reason you think this seems out of the ordinary is because you are insisting a word that does not appear applies.
No, my statement is true and honest. It is you who is so set in blind faith and confirmation bias that you cannot see reality anymore.
#82623 Mar 24, 2013
No mention there that Galileo was ever punished either.
Actually, Galileo wasn't punished for that. The church simply declared the science didn't support his claim and ordered him not to teach it as fact. It wasn't until Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief Systems of the World - Ptolemaic and Copernican was published circa 1630 that he received a sentence of house arrest (1633). In that, he completes his work on his Copernican theory and presents it as an argument between two fictitious authorities- one resembling leaders of the church in which he portrayed as a bumbling idiot and the other, a sophisticated and well educated man of wealth. It was no secrete what he was doing and it caused him to be trialed on violating the orders given to him in 1916- except the Copernican theory was never an issue because it was already declared as false in the 1916 ordeal.
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