Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71289 Jan 18, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
For once I agree with Free Servant.
Why? Evolution is a study of natural selection. This is a perfect object lesson.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#71290 Jan 18, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
I completely disagree with the claim that gays don't recruit. Gays do try to "convert" or, at least like most tender male egos, get all blustery when confronted with rejection.
I've already said MY politics is about prejudice against single people who are in the minority, but close to becoming the majority. Marriage is about financial incentives to raise kids from the State's perspective. The church influences the State in an unconstitutional way and a lot proceeds from there.
Prejudice in the workplace becomes prejudice in the ability to afford healthcare which becomes prejudice in insurance rates. I can understand the rationalization for demanding marriage. I just resent the idea of having the minority take on tax burdens for the majority, and the hypocrisy of demanding inclusion in church based prejudice.
Other than those reasons, I have had little to say on the subject other than that I find homosexuality trivial compared to other forms of discrimination. Most people hear the word discrimination and they immediately think "whiny, litigious, American Black. There is some truth to that stereotype but there is also truth that being Black is not something you can hide.
For my part, I somewhat take exception to that simple attitude towards justice. A person is who they are on the inside too. I know that I can say that married men get preferential treatment in the workplace and suddenly every issue that I bring up is written off as whining. Well, "rocking the boat" is taboo in this economy but it is the very nature of change. For better or for worse, change WILL happen so it's best to listen and consider change that is for the collective betterment.
People don't like to be around those who are strange to them. It's human nature and the "melting pot" concept is unsound. Diversity is the result of evolution, not self-expression. THAT is how this whole debate becomes linked together into a circle of necessary scientific discipline, not just leveraging one's politics by claiming evolution as being on the side of righteousness. So really, consider the value of marriage in it's entirety and ask yourself if it is just a relic of old prejudices.
You are very judgemental.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#71291 Jan 19, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
It's okay, I failed to describe something well, that still makes it my mistake. You and HFY's clarifications helped to correct my error.
Sorry...I'm such a stickler!

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#71292 Jan 19, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Many instances of homosexuality in animals? Not true. Bisexuality maybe. They will hump pretty much anything.
Homosexuality is extremely abnormal. For every one homosexual that exists there are likely millions of bisexuals.
When we're discussing animals, it's better not to use "homosexuality" or "bisexuality" and just talk about sexual behavior. I prefer the terms "same sex sexual behavior" or "opposite sex sexual behavior" though primatologists use the technical jargon of isosexual and contrasexual.

Homosexuality, heteroseuxality and bisexuality are sexual identities of Western culture. Not really applicable to animals - and not always to non-Westerners who do not identify with the Western cultural constructions of identity and sexuality.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#71293 Jan 19, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
How do gays recruit? By making it socially acceptable for the far larger bisexual community to swing both ways. I am sure that 9/10ths of the men who saw Brokeback Mountain immediately decided to give it a try. Suddenly it was cool. Then they brought HIV back home to their wives.
Laws are there to discourage them... not gays.
Uh...is the above a joke?

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#71294 Jan 19, 2013
neutral observer wrote:
<quoted text>
Genetic diversity is hardly the goal. Evolution generally occurs best in small populations. The less the genetic diversity the more likely a random mutation is to catch on. Hense when brown bears wandered out onto the ice sheets they became polar bears but other brown bears stayed the same. Those hominids who wandered out of Africa during the Ice Age became Neanderthals for much the same reason. Or like birds blown onto remote islands by storm.
Massive genetic diversity is produced when a population is growing at a rapid rate.

You are more specifically describing the strengthened effects of genetic drift and natural selection on small populations - but genetic diversity itself grows fastest in populations that are under high growth. Genetic diversity is lost most quickly in small populations, though you can have high rates of evolution in these populations because genetic drift becomes stronger and, under severe environmental conditions, natural selection is likewise severe.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#71295 Jan 19, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
I know everyone can hide their true identity here, but no wonder self respecting Creationist never come here to debate, it could be because they wouldn't want their children to read some of the trash this thread has turned to. PLease be considerate and get back on topic.
You believe that when creationists come here, they want their children to read these comments?

The thing is, there's no debate. Creationism is not science. It has no testable, disprovable hypotheses and so cannot contribute to science. Creationism does not produce new knowledge or technology. It is quite incapable of doing so.

In science, there is no competing theory with evolution. Evolution is the framework theory of all biological sciences. It unifies all biological phenomena under one explanatory umbrella.

Period. That's it.

“Why does my ignorance”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#71296 Jan 19, 2013
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
"You know what? Gays don't want you to be gay. They don't look at you and think "hmmm, I can convert that lovely piece of meat.""
Seems pretty much what you said from where I stand!
Thanks, cleared that up for me.

I stand by that. The gays I know don't want you to be gay, mostly because you're not.

The story you gave about the sailor...that's rape, plain and simple. I'd hardly call that rapist a normal, well adjusted gay man. I'd in fact call him a rapist.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#71297 Jan 19, 2013
Anita Bryant has a phenomenally silly idea about how gays recruit gays.
She said that gays can't reproduce, therefore they have to recruit from the next generation by molesting boys.

If you have two or more hate targets, it's more efficient to consolidate those hate targets and pretend that they are the same.
In Bryant's case, she apparently hated both gays and pedos, so she pretended that they were the same group.

All through history and all over the world, groups tended to consolidate "everybody but us."
Everyone but Romans were barbarians,
everyone but Israelites were Gentiles,
everyone but Latin Americans are gringos,
everyone but Africans are bwanas,
everyone but gypsies are gorgios,
everyone but beatniks are squares,
everyone but hippies are straights,
everyone but mountaineers are flatlanders,
and everyone but Christians are heathens.

Even right here on this thread, you see the same syndrome.
Creationists hate both atheists and Evolutionists, so they pretend that those are the exact same people.

In prehistoric times, it was not in the evolutionary interests to regard outsiders as individuals.
However, we are now living in an age in which people who are different from each other have to live together whether they want to or not.
Yet our paleomammalian carry this same instinct, just as it always had.
We've talked about vestigial organs, here is a vestigial instinct.

Funny how so many people preach Creationism and demonstrate Evolution.

Level 5

Since: Apr 12

Taizhou, China

#71298 Jan 19, 2013
I don't have the documentation with me, but I read somewhere that animal subjects do all sorts of unpleasant things in overpopulation experiments.
They fight, they murder, they molest juveniles, and guess what--they practice homosexuality!

I tried Googling "animal homosexuality overpopulation."
I got lots of Websites listed, but I couldn't get into any of them.
(China's Internet service is as crummy as all get out.)

If someone else could perform such a search and tell me what you get, I would appreciate it--whether I'm wrong or right.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#71299 Jan 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
You believe that when creationists come here, they want their children to read these comments?
The thing is, there's no debate. Creationism is not science. It has no testable, disprovable hypotheses and so cannot contribute to science. Creationism does not produce new knowledge or technology. It is quite incapable of doing so.
In science, there is no competing theory with evolution. Evolution is the framework theory of all biological sciences. It unifies all biological phenomena under one explanatory umbrella.
Period. That's it.
SCP theory is a good replacement.
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#71300 Jan 19, 2013
Darwin was wrong when he concluded that the forces of change acting on any population of organisms were only competition, desease, climate, etc, and that they resulted in the survival of those more fitted to the environment. A species is engaged and made use of in a paricular activity that is a suitable place or position for the kind to function to do work within a given ecological system. Each kind or species has instructional constituents within their makeup to allow for change if needs be to function. The instructions are provided as templates or patterns which produce copies through cycling. SCPID/SEED/WORK theory is a group of general propositions used as principles of explanation for diversity of life known today as well as functioning of all natural systems eveywhere throughout our known uinverse.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71301 Jan 19, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
You are very judgemental.
We all are. Mostly when it's about money. To some degree, other factors. For the most part, I consider myself judgmental above the table. I doubt you'll see a better ideal.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71302 Jan 19, 2013
Thomas Robertson wrote:
I don't have the documentation with me, but I read somewhere that animal subjects do all sorts of unpleasant things in overpopulation experiments.
They fight, they murder, they molest juveniles, and guess what--they practice homosexuality!
I tried Googling "animal homosexuality overpopulation."
I got lots of Websites listed, but I couldn't get into any of them.
(China's Internet service is as crummy as all get out.)
If someone else could perform such a search and tell me what you get, I would appreciate it--whether I'm wrong or right.
Well, I haven't googled it, but I've posted a few items in agreement, and that is why I consider a good portion of the politics of this debate to be about urban vs. rural culture.
anonymous

Franklin, PA

#71303 Jan 19, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks, cleared that up for me.
I stand by that. The gays I know don't want you to be gay, mostly because you're not.
The story you gave about the sailor...that's rape, plain and simple. I'd hardly call that rapist a normal, well adjusted gay man. I'd in fact call him a rapist.
You're missing the point though. Law is largely about enforcement. If you're just a sailor without legal means, the norm is about what you can get away with. Taking chances is the norm.

“All things considered”

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#71304 Jan 19, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I believe that there is a dimension of space that can be accessed through dreams induced by different frequencies or brain waves. lol
This might be true...but I have found there's really no need to "induce"
it in any way...It's a completely natural phenomenon.

It's more of a question of unbias awareness eliminating preconceived filters that limit perception.

not that I'm no expert on the subject...I'm strictly speaking from my own experience.

here's a Synchronicity experience for ya...I was thinking about Edgar Allan Poe The Raven, and had just brought up a picture of a crow on my computer...and almost immediately a crow, not ten feet from my window called out five times and flew away...I kid you not...just how it happened.

I might hear a crow call where I live about once a month or so, if I'm lucky...but this was way to much to be a coincidence.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#71305 Jan 19, 2013
Ok religous people let me ask this.

If evolution doesnt work in your mind because something cant come out of nothing. Then if your god cerated the world who cretaed your god because he could not have come out of nothing right?????

So maybe you should worship grand dadd y god or great grand daddy god......
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#71307 Jan 19, 2013
ToManyLaws wrote:
Ok religous people let me ask this.
If evolution doesnt work in your mind because something cant come out of nothing. Then if your god cerated the world who cretaed your god because he could not have come out of nothing right?????
So maybe you should worship grand dadd y god or great grand daddy god......
The God of the Bible is THE one who brought ALL things into existence in THE beginning. He could see the end from the beginning when it all started. We may not have the reasoning capacity to understand this.

“Waytogo”

Since: Oct 09

Location hidden

#71308 Jan 19, 2013
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The God of the Bible is THE one who brought ALL things into existence in THE beginning. He could see the end from the beginning when it all started. We may not have the reasoning capacity to understand this.
So then your god did POOF into being....Got it.....So your whole buybull and rleigion is just lies...Ok good...

have any proof of what you said above????
FREE SERVANT

Bellevue, WA

#71309 Jan 19, 2013
According to the Bible mankind was made in the image and likeness of the Creator and given dominion over all the earth. Humans are very special to the Creator and we are not just another wild animal creature.

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