Evolution vs. Creation

Full story: Best of New Orleans

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

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#70672
Jan 12, 2013
 
Time and Space wrote:
Most resist the idea of a creator...simply because religion has attached judgment and condemnation, as traits of this creator or creators or spirits or superior beings...
You're right man. I'm just so, so scared to believe that there is a merciful, benevolent being in the sky who loves me, wants the best for me, and has a meaningful plan for my life. I just can't bear the thought!

Or maybe, we "resist" because you and people like you have not even come close to making your case yet.

The general argument I hear from religious people is "I believe in god, and I don't understand how the universe could possibly exist if not especially for me and people like me, so you should believe too."

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#70673
Jan 12, 2013
 
xxxooxxx wrote:
<quoted text>
Your right...nor is logical deduction. But when you have cultures that have had no contact with one another that also are separated by time and space, come up with basic intuitional knowledge that correlates to a idea that science adheres to...( the Observer Effect)then you have something that should be considered...
You keep using that phrase... I don't think it means what you think it means.

“what we think we become”

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#70674
Jan 12, 2013
 
Thomas Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
It damages those who came to talk about Evolution vs. Creation. but who have to plow through discussion on other topics.
It damages those who skip the discussion on other topics, and who might skip a message about Evolution vs. Creation by mistake.
It is frustrating to those who try to remind other people that this forum is about Evolution vs. Creation, not about abiogenesis.
So we can't discuss the evolution of cosmos and particles? yawn

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#70675
Jan 12, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
whatever they call it but memory is not just stored in the brain.
http://www.thenakedscientists.com/HTML/conten...
That link contained information about epigenetic memory, which is not "memory" in the same way that the memories in our brain are memories. You are getting confused about what "memory" is in this context. Nothing in our body can retain memories in the same way that our brain can - our brain is the only organ that has a depository of information that we can access at will.

"Epigenetic memory" is, to put it very simply, the ability of the cells in our body to remember what they were before when they split. Additionally, our genes can change the ways in which they "express" themselves without any actual change to the underlying dna sequence, and these changes can be passed on from parent to child. This does not constitute "brain like memory."

If you would have read that link of yours before you posted it, you would have known this.

Here is a little something on "body memory."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_memory

“what we think we become”

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#70676
Jan 12, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Ahahahhahahaha. There just *has to* be a master chemist, eh? No justification, no evidence, just - "I don't understand science, so godditit!" Funny.
There is nothing wrong with someone believing God created it. What should concern Science is HOW God did it.

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#70677
Jan 12, 2013
 
Robert wrote:
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very very interesting...even outside of books...some Native Americans are able to hear the Earth speak...not in words, but more in the way of intuitions and symbols... I have experienced this directly, and I must say it is the most amazing thing that I have ever experienced. Believe it or not.
Not.

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#70678
Jan 12, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>That link contained information about epigenetic memory, which is not "memory" in the same way that the memories in our brain are memories. You are getting confused about what "memory" is in this context. Nothing in our body can retain memories in the same way that our brain can - our brain is the only organ that has a depository of information that we can access at will.
"Epigenetic memory" is, to put it very simply, the ability of the cells in our body to remember what they were before when they split. Additionally, our genes can change the ways in which they "express" themselves without any actual change to the underlying dna sequence, and these changes can be passed on from parent to child. This does not constitute "brain like memory."
If you would have read that link of yours before you posted it, you would have known this.
Here is a little something on "body memory."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_memory
That is what I was trying to explain. I never claimed cells have 'brain like memory.'

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#70679
Jan 12, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Blah! Blah! Blah!
You don't see fit to defend your lifestyle. You're judging my posts as homophobic and worthy of being having me placed in a straightjacket. No sense of honor among peers. Never will be.
I remain anonymous for many reasons, but I am perfectly aware that the people I fear could trace things through network logs, if it was that important. Other than that, the occasional stalker does concern me but more than anything, I worry about H.R. people profiling me and stifling my political voice.
You may like the choice to use your name, but you may find yourself losing opportunities because of it. That's a friendly warning. H.R. people don't like political fanatics, and maybe other things.
...and of course, I've already stated that I consider the Gay agenda to be about pushing Affirmative Action for Gays. Everything has come full circle, but you think that it's all about rules and you deny your own sense of legal vigilantism, so there we are.
No meaning.
The gay agenda? Is that like the negro agenda of the 60's? Those damn uppity negroes, with all their talk about
"equality" and "rights." Just like the gays.

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#70680
Jan 12, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
There should be a balance, but we know that there's still a traditional "women in the home" attitude and a tendency to think that women just aren't suited to some jobs. Perhaps sexual dimorphism suggests this to be a valid point and perhaps it doesn't. Just don't expect managers to be understanding.
They're mostly just arm-twisters who don't want to get dirt on themselves so if they can get away with it, they WILL make budget decisions that help them move up the ladder while chaining you down with workplace inefficiencies.
Homie, I think that you are projecting a wee bit.

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#70681
Jan 12, 2013
 
Time and Space wrote:
<quoted text>
But like someone said on another post...
If this random soup is created in a lab...all it prooves is 'intellegent design'...
And randomn soup, is not enough to produce the enviornment we have on this planet...
The variety of life...the opposite sex dynamics...
Life cannot exist without an enviornment in which to live or thrive...
What happens if you place one plant on the moon...without oxygenated soil, without other plants to polinate with?
It will simply die...
Look at all the various species put here, simply to be apart of a greater ecosphere...
Life on earth is a team effort...
It was all done deliberatly by a master designer or bio-engineer...or creator...
Your arguments are breathtakingly stupid.

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#70682
Jan 12, 2013
 
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep in mind that I knew that it would provoke them to carry on a polite dialog with you. I wouldn't use you to make them feel less manly in the eyes of all these important people! In all honesty, I wasn't entirely sure if I would have made you annoyed if I didn't let you indulge your off-topic moment, which we all have, and as long as we get back on topic, life goes on.
I consider it a learning experience to observe people's hidden obsessions. Unfortunately, these aren't particularly unique or new from where I'm standing. My obsession? Since I know that will be the next rebuttal, it's a bit of an experiment for me to confront the political rhetoric of the two parties. I figure that both sides won't see their bad behavior once they are personally involved, so.... this is more about the bystanders.
Interesting results, but the debate was over before it began. And yes, I'm being smart-@ss analytical to excess because that brings out the best of the "you think you're so...yada, yada." They talk more about what they really think when you've got an evil nemesis thing going on!
Anyway, don't feel that you're on trial. Do your own thing.:)
We have a regular super genius over here, manipulating the poor plebes to do his bidding.

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#70683
Jan 12, 2013
 
Time and Space wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't play that game with me...
On the contrary...where is your evidence that life can sprout on it's own, out of rocks?
It can't...
How can rocks suddenly code themselves with millions of messages and genes?
You have no evidence of dead matter, suddenly deciding to create life on it's own...with the complexities involved...
Quit resisting...
Ever heard of the miller urey experiment?

Anyways, you are being dumb. Do you really think that any assertion you make is right until proven wrong? There is no evidence of any god, let alone anything supernatural - so what makes you think that it's reasonable to assume the existence of a creator until proven wrong?

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#70684
Jan 12, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
Atoms have kinetic energy based on thermal energy (the "vibration" of the atom) and also on electron motion. They also have the energy of their mass. This is the energy that would be derived if all of their mass was converted into energy. That's the so-called mass equivalence that Albert Einstein gave us with E=mc2.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Do_atoms_have_energ...
Energy does not equal life.

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#70685
Jan 12, 2013
 
Time and Space wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok...I read it...well parts of it...
And got lot's of 'mays''maybes' and 'mights'...and 'theories'....
But no absolutes...
DNA...RNA...is just like computer programming...it can't be done by chance...
Each life form, species, has it's own code...color, feathers, gills, feet, hands, mating habits, eyes,...
Insects, mammals, birds...plant life...
All, each, so complex...if you know and study engineering...you could never say all this programming was done, created, by accident...
it's impossible...
Lifeless matter has no logical reason to create life on it's own...
For the path of least resistance is always death...not life and conscious...
And matter always follows the path of least resistance...which would be death and rocks....not conciousness and life...
Quit resisting the idea of there being a creator...
Your disdain towards Christanity or religion, shouldn't blind you to the idea of an intellegent creator...
Matter does not need a "reason" to "create" life.

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#70686
Jan 12, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
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There is nothing wrong with someone believing God created it. What should concern Science is HOW God did it.
Wtf? Seriously? Sure, there is no problem with someone believing that "goddidit," but there is a problem with someone claiming that "goddidit," an assertion for which there is no evidence, is somehow just as valid as the evidence based claims that come from science.

Why should science concern itself with "how god did it" if we have no proof that god did anything in the first place, or that he even exists in the first place? That makes no sense at all.

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#70687
Jan 12, 2013
 
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
That is what I was trying to explain. I never claimed cells have 'brain like memory.'
Well, then I apologize for misinterpreting you, but you were kind of unclear. When people say "cellular memory" it brings to mind the nonscientific concept of body/cell memory, at least for me.
TheIndependentMa jority

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#70688
Jan 12, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Huh? What does phenotypic plasticity have to do with this? I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. Why, if we could replicate the exact chemical state of a nde, would it be different from a "natural" one? And even if we couldn't exactly replicate the chemical state, it wouldn't matter, and my proposition was more of a thought experiment anyway. My point is that we have a reasonably thorough understanding of the physical underpinnings of NDEs, and they can be more or less replicated with the use of drugs or with electrical stimulation of the appropriate regions of the brain. Why do we need to invoke a "something" to explain ndes when we already know, more or less, what causes them?
Could you please invoke the original question again?

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#70689
Jan 12, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Wtf? Seriously? Sure, there is no problem with someone believing that "goddidit," but there is a problem with someone claiming that "goddidit," an assertion for which there is no evidence, is somehow just as valid as the evidence based claims that come from science.
Why should science concern itself with "how god did it" if we have no proof that god did anything in the first place, or that he even exists in the first place? That makes no sense at all.
what makes no sense is how we existed without an external agent. Just because you have no proof of God, doesn't mean there is none. Which is why that makes him more of a God because your little brain can't comprehend it. You don't make a good detective. lol

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#70690
Jan 12, 2013
 
If you can't find God, be God.

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#70691
Jan 12, 2013
 
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>The gay agenda? Is that like the negro agenda of the 60's? Those damn uppity negroes, with all their talk about
"equality" and "rights." Just like the gays.
Are you for or against the issue of racism?
What has gay rights got to do with the rights of human beings?
is it because they were negroes?

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