Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 219629 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70591 Jan 11, 2013
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Clarification
Mono-Zygotic twins begin their development from a single split egg and therefore with identical dna, clones of each other. Mutations through development account for the slight differences that can sometimes be observed
I have fraternal twins, not from the same egg and therefore not clones and actually as different as chalk and cheese
Yes. Add in environmental differences, such as chemical, nutritional, immune system and so on, gradients in the womb, and different environments after birth. Mutations after cell separation are probably the minor factor for differences, honestly.

For dizogotic twins, environment is what makes them similar, with genes and genetic-environment interaction making them different.

I'm sure you have fun with them!

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70592 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Phasmatodea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phasmida
There are others.
Nice!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70593 Jan 11, 2013
Is it safe to assume that perhaps a somatic cell or mitochondria of a zygote should be mixed in with the donor's ovum? That means, the donor will have to provide her egg and then be mixed with someone who will actually get pregnant to provide the somatic cell of her growing zygote? The reason being is that the zygote's cells are still fresh as oppose to somatic cell or DNA of an adult that has already undergone complex cell processes including mutations. This will prevent the clone from inheriting damaged cells. The zygote will come from someone else instead of the ovum donor. The idea is that the somatic cell will come from a zygote and an ovum from an adult egg donor. Does it sound unethical? Dolly the sheep had three mothers, the egg donor, the DNA of another, and the surrogate mother. She is not the identical twin of one donor and is genetically different from her.

“what we think we become”

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Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70594 Jan 11, 2013
I didn't realize that my idea is a foursome! lol

Weird Science is weird.

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70595 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
Is it safe to assume that perhaps a somatic cell or mitochondria of a zygote should be mixed in with the donor's ovum? That means, the donor will have to provide her egg and then be mixed with someone who will actually get pregnant to provide the somatic cell of her growing zygote? The reason being is that the zygote's cells are still fresh as oppose to somatic cell or DNA of an adult that has already undergone complex cell processes including mutations. This will prevent the clone from inheriting damaged cells. The zygote will come from someone else instead of the ovum donor. The idea is that the somatic cell will come from a zygote and an ovum from an adult egg donor. Does it sound unethical? Dolly the sheep had three mothers, the egg donor, the DNA of another, and the surrogate mother. She is not the identical twin of one donor and is genetically different from her.
No. That's not safe to assume. You're basically oversimplifying and therefore on the wrong track. Good guesses for what you know, but not for what is known by biologists who study such things.

Honestly, you have great ideas, a wonderful imagination. Just read the literature on this stuff - you're already interested. I promise you that you will find answers, you'll be utterly amazed and it will change your world. And you may even come up with original ideas and make a genuine contribution.

The truism that I have learned about anything I thought I knew a little about, that I started to learn more about, was that I know nothing about almost everything. There is more to this world than I can imagine, than I can know - and, when you learn more about how cells reproduce, you will understand more than you can understand now.

And it will amaze you.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#70596 Jan 11, 2013
Christopher Keller wrote:
<quoted text>
A cloned human would be created for a specific purpose. A soldier. A basketball player. A musician.
For a given purpose by someone with power.
As a slave.
With 7 billion people and climbing, why do we need to clone to get slaves? Sure it could be doable, but does it make sense as a probable outcome.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#70597 Jan 11, 2013
macumazahn wrote:
<quoted text>Too many people have been watching too much bad sci-fi.
A human cloning gets you one human newborn. That is all.
No reason to treat it any differently from any other...
I agree. It would have to be raised the same as any child.

My future responses to the clone issue will just be copies of an original, previous response.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70598 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
No. That's not safe to assume. You're basically oversimplifying and therefore on the wrong track. Good guesses for what you know, but not for what is known by biologists who study such things.
Honestly, you have great ideas, a wonderful imagination. Just read the literature on this stuff - you're already interested. I promise you that you will find answers, you'll be utterly amazed and it will change your world. And you may even come up with original ideas and make a genuine contribution.
The truism that I have learned about anything I thought I knew a little about, that I started to learn more about, was that I know nothing about almost everything. There is more to this world than I can imagine, than I can know - and, when you learn more about how cells reproduce, you will understand more than you can understand now.
And it will amaze you.
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible. If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol

But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70599 Jan 11, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I agree. It would have to be raised the same as any child.
My future responses to the clone issue will just be copies of an original, previous response.
Hehehe.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70600 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible. If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
Interesting. I did mine on population growth based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_growth

I got an A as well.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70601 Jan 11, 2013
Is anyone interested in being a donor of somatic cells that contain your DNA besides me?

I ask myself, why would scientists want my DNA?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70602 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
Interesting. I did mine on population growth based on this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limits_to_growth
I got an A as well.
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?

“A sentient umbrella speaks”

Level 5

Since: Mar 11

Some stable somewhere

#70603 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I just realized that getting the somatic cell of a zygote is impossible.
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p

second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
If possible, it has to be an embryo or fetus. But that just poses ethical problems. lol
That's a lot easier :)

And only unethical in some countries...
But anyway, I will get more info. You're right I am already interested. I have been interested in human cloning that started ten years ago in college when I did my persuasion speech/presentation in human cloning. I got an A on that! ;-)
There you go! You've got a start!

I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:

http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...

This one discusses the problems with cloning:

http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm

Have fun :)

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70604 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
What was the premise that led to your conclusion?
The 73 oil crisis.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70605 Jan 11, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
The 73 oil crisis.
what about it?

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70606 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
uhm...first, no, that's not what I meant :p
second, it's not impossible, it's just difficult.
<quoted text>
That's a lot easier :)
And only unethical in some countries...
<quoted text>
There you go! You've got a start!
I tried to find you some stuff to read, but...wow, most cloning seems to take place at the genetic/molecular level, so it's difficult to find 'state of the discipline' articles. Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#70607 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
what about it?
I had just gone through it (in Germany). When I got out of the Air Force in 74, it was fresh in my mind. So when I had to do a persuasive speech, I went looking for related material. "Limits to Growth" presented itself. So I redid the computer analysis (with punch cards no less) and gave my speech on growth.

“H-o-o-o-o-o-o-ld on thar!”

Level 7

Since: Sep 08

The Borderland of Sol

#70608 Jan 11, 2013
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
It would be difficult to have progress in human cloning because it's illegal in the first place.:/
Actually, it's not.

Only fifteen US States have laws regulating human cloning. A sixteenth, Louisiana, did, but it expired in 2003.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70609 Jan 11, 2013
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are two...uh...overviews, I guess:
http://www.sciencepub.net/nature/0201/06ma.pd...
This one discusses the problems with cloning:
http://cmbi.bjmu.edu.cn/news/0104/8.htm
Have fun :)
I understand the cloning process that takes place. It looks like the somatic cells comes from the donor with ‘desired genes’and using its nucleus to be fused with an empty egg or egg cytoplasm by reprogramming the nucleus.

My question is, what if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cells come from the same host? That would mean the clone is the identical twin of that host, right? Will a nuclear transfer be needed in this case? There is a process where an egg can be fertilized without a sperm but because the embryo doesn't have paternal chromosomes, it can't develop into a baby and we don’t know much about that technology yet so that is out of the question.

Or maybe in reproductive cloning, if the egg cytoplasm and somatic cell come from the same donor, that nuclear transfer will still have to take place for the oocyte to react on somatic cell nucleus and reach development after being stimulated by a shock. This is the SCNT process of a real clone. If however, a clone will have to come from two donors – one the egg donor and the DNA of another, considering the fact that at least 1% of the egg donor will pass on the genes to the clone, then that is not really a clone, but same sex reproduction!

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#70610 Jan 11, 2013
I meant to say the egg donor will pass on 1% of her genes...

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