Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 216597 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66413 Dec 20, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
If it is not God...it is not good and shouldn't be associated with my God. Choice is not irrelevent when love is the most relevent...every person who's been cheated on must be aware of that.
It's not okay to be offended by the dark lies proclaiming that God is evil? MikeF uses worse tactics to express the same desire does he not?
What's not to worship? Do you enjoy being selfish? Do you enjoy being selfless? Do you want to love to the greatest capacity given to you? Or do you want to quench everyone who tries to love with the spirit of God alive in them?
Since God created everything, how can something not be of him? You will have to go deep on this one Rose Tyler. I am just not getting it.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66414 Dec 20, 2012
Cybele wrote:
Chuckie must've failed his Science class which is why he is switching the subject to English.
Is that what that discussion was about? I thought he was talking about some old German that wanted move to England or Africa. It is hard to tell with Charles, he only has a lease on the English language.

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#66415 Dec 20, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Rose Tyler, are you saying that a person can't be an atheist or nonbeliever and be moral? If you are, I have to disagree. The evidence against that can be found in any moral person of another religion or no religious belief at all. Some of the most morally upstanding people I have known have been atheists and some have been among followers of one religion or another. I it hadn't come up, I wouldn't have known who subscribed to a religion and who didn't. I wonder though, how and where an atheist recieves their moral development? I imagine, it is many of the old familiar places that all of us receive it. Home, school, families, even churches. It isn't like moral values are a carefully guarded secret of the church. Did you know that there are prohibitions against murder, theft and other so called sins, from societies that predate the Ten Commandments and are not Hebrew and obviously not Christian.
Depending on the circumstances and the individual, I myself would never drive away some that wanted to love me. At least not until after breakfast.
Christians have twisted and distorted the capacity and extent of morality in atheists into lies entirely for their own ends. It has become such a pervasive idea that even if you could question it, you don't.
Most of the questions on here aren't about attacks on God, but on the depiction of God in the Bible that you claim is an absolute truth. You make claims of the love of God based on the Bible and others ask how you can make those claims when there are passages that show God to not be so loving. This is an extension of the original intent of this thread, but it is not unconnected since the claim of absolute truth remains.
Rose Tyler I think you are a moral person, but you really need to evolve those beliefs of yours to connect with the reality of the Bible and not a romantic and fanciful notion of it.
When you have used the "I never heard God Speak to ME thus he speaks to no one" argument so skillfully and then turn around and say...we all have the same shared knowledge...no one is outside of universal knowledge of Good and evil no family, tribe, people etc.Why is it impossible to Credit God as the Being who shares this knowledge with all peoples not just there families...He even allows people to enjoy living who are confused about Him and afraid to make direct statements of Faith. But He knows there hearts. I prefer to say exactly that He is God...I see the power of the spoken Word in the lives of the people createdand loved by God.
If you believe there are passages that reveal that God does not love. You do not understand the 'ideal'love a husband has for a wife who cheats on Him...She flaunts it in His face. She smiles about it. She enjoys it. She humiliates him...and yet He takes her back...not without revealing what pain does...People cause their own pain...not God.

Smith from Danville said-"Since God created everything, how can something not be of him? You will have to go deep on this one Rose Tyler. I am just not getting it."
You want me to say that God created Evil ...because to you Since God created EVERYTHING...there is the conclusion that He must have made Evil. He Allows Choice. He wants to see love. He's not like a demanding husband who asks his wife "Do you love me?" and then uses pressure to make her say 'yes'. His Love is a Sacrificial love that is the perfect example of freedom in a relationship. His heart is completely open and giving, It is why we love because he first loves us...Men are considered the 'Bride' of Christ as well Everyone needs perfect love to respond to.
2late2apologizee

Nha Trang, Vietnam

#66416 Dec 20, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
When you have used the "I never heard God Speak to ME thus he speaks to no one" argument so skillfully and then turn around and say...we all have the same shared knowledge...no one is outside of universal knowledge of Good and evil no family, tribe, people etc.Why is it impossible to Credit God as the Being who shares this knowledge with all peoples not just there families...He even allows people to enjoy living who are confused about Him and afraid to make direct statements of Faith. But He knows there hearts. I prefer to say exactly that He is God...I see the power of the spoken Word in the lives of the people createdand loved by God.
If you believe there are passages that reveal that God does not love. You do not understand the 'ideal'love a husband has for a wife who cheats on Him...She flaunts it in His face. She smiles about it. She enjoys it. She humiliates him...and yet He takes her back...not without revealing what pain does...People cause their own pain...not God.
Smith from Danville said-"Since God created everything, how can something not be of him? You will have to go deep on this one Rose Tyler. I am just not getting it."
You want me to say that God created Evil ...because to you Since God created EVERYTHING...there is the conclusion that He must have made Evil. He Allows Choice. He wants to see love. He's not like a demanding husband who asks his wife "Do you love me?" and then uses pressure to make her say 'yes'. His Love is a Sacrificial love that is the perfect example of freedom in a relationship. His heart is completely open and giving, It is why we love because he first loves us...Men are considered the 'Bride' of Christ as well Everyone needs perfect love to respond to.
U fish? do U hav john Bait/ner yet?!!;-00000
2late2apologizee

Nha Trang, Vietnam

#66417 Dec 20, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
When you have used the "I never heard God Speak to ME thus he speaks to no one" argument so skillfully and then turn around and say...we all have the same shared knowledge...no one is outside of universal knowledge of Good and evil no family, tribe, people etc.Why is it impossible to Credit God as the Being who shares this knowledge with all peoples not just there families...He even allows people to enjoy living who are confused about Him and afraid to make direct statements of Faith. But He knows there hearts. I prefer to say exactly that He is God...I see the power of the spoken Word in the lives of the people createdand loved by God.
If you believe there are passages that reveal that God does not love. You do not understand the 'ideal'love a husband has for a wife who cheats on Him...She flaunts it in His face. She smiles about it. She enjoys it. She humiliates him...and yet He takes her back...not without revealing what pain does...People cause their own pain...not God.
Smith from Danville said-"Since God created everything, how can something not be of him? You will have to go deep on this one Rose Tyler. I am just not getting it."
You want me to say that God created Evil ...because to you Since God created EVERYTHING...there is the conclusion that He must have made Evil. He Allows Choice. He wants to see love. He's not like a demanding husband who asks his wife "Do you love me?" and then uses pressure to make her say 'yes'. His Love is a Sacrificial love that is the perfect example of freedom in a relationship. His heart is completely open and giving, It is why we love because he first loves us...Men are considered the 'Bride' of Christ as well Everyone needs perfect love to respond to.
and don't think JOHN deere meat for Baiter!! ;-00000h, U think dat is funnnnie;)

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#66419 Dec 20, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>When you have used the "I never heard God Speak to ME thus he speaks to no one" argument so skillfully and then turn around and say...we all have the same shared knowledge...no one is outside of universal knowledge of Good and evil no family, tribe, people etc.Why is it impossible to Credit God as the Being who shares this knowledge with all peoples not just there families...He even allows people to enjoy living who are confused about Him and afraid to make direct statements of Faith. But He knows there hearts. I prefer to say exactly that He is God...I see the power of the spoken Word in the lives of the people createdand loved by God.
If you believe there are passages that reveal that God does not love. You do not understand the 'ideal'love a husband has for a wife who cheats on Him...She flaunts it in His face. She smiles about it. She enjoys it. She humiliates him...and yet He takes her back...not without revealing what pain does...People cause their own pain...not God.

Smith from Danville said-"Since God created everything, how can something not be of him? You will have to go deep on this one Rose Tyler. I am just not getting it."
You want me to say that God created Evil ...because to you Since God created EVERYTHING...there is the conclusion that He must have made Evil. He Allows Choice. He wants to see love. He's not like a demanding husband who asks his wife "Do you love me?" and then uses pressure to make her say 'yes'. His Love is a Sacrificial love that is the perfect example of freedom in a relationship. His heart is completely open and giving, It is why we love because he first loves us...Men are considered the 'Bride' of Christ as well Everyone needs perfect love to respond to.
Does good and evil exist?
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#66420 Dec 20, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Interesting. Now I am the "artful dodger." What else will I be when you have finished? We have already established that your original observations were flawed......
We haven't established anything. You can't prove your place in society and I don't want to prove mine!

Other than that, I don't really care what you deny. You started calling mentally handicapped people evil. I don't know what you were thinking but I don't like that kind of judgmental behavior applied to the handicapped.

You can call it a rant, but I call it a path that I've chased people down too many times, so I called it for what it was. Now you can come to me with what you really were thinking if it wasn't that. I claim that judgmental right to offset your "evil" bit.

So far, you've insisted that what you said was righteous and you stand by it.

Admittedly, you confessed that you did not know that the shooter was diagnosed as an Asperger's patient. OK. I can walk away from that, but you didn't. You played the dodger game. Something hurt you in a way that mattered and you refused to admit that the mentally handicapped need treatment, not punishment.

...and that's how this whizzing contest came to be.

....and I missed the "boys" reference entirely. Must have gotten lost in the mix. Never even heard of that song so you would have had to spell it out.

Anyway, I'll be civil if you are. What I originally stated was I pointed out that you had crossed an ethical line, not my personal boundary for declaring war.
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#66421 Dec 20, 2012
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> Here comes another dreamer. Ask your self this question, you were the Saxons and the Angles.
Before coming to England, they were all Germanic tribes. But as they entered England, uniting with the locals, they became the English.
Unite with the locals? The Romans were leaving England and the local leaders brought them in as mercenaries to protect against the local tribes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Saxon_Engl...

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66422 Dec 20, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry Rose Tyler, I had to edit the quote. We are gettin wordy.
I can't speak for what others hear in their head. All I can say is that there are other more rational explanations for what someone might think they hear. For all I know it could be God. I am not and I don't believe I have made that argument. There are a lot of things I haven't heard or thought, but I can't speak knowledgably on what other may have or haven't heard or thought. At the same time, I can have doubts about what they might hear or think they heard. I might even not believe it, but it is a disbelief based on experience and facts and not one lightly taken. I have my biases to be sure, but I am trying to pull back and view this as a whole picture. We are not just talking about what a Christian believes, but about what a person is capable of doing. Is the way I have articulated that clear to you or have I lost you again.
Again, Rose Tyler, I didn't claim a universal knowledge shared by everyone. There are people that have no real morals at all. Morality drifts about like spider silk on a wind. It is different in different places and times. I am told that human sacrifice was considered moral by the Incas. In the United States many found it moral to own other human beings and the Bible was used well and skillfully to support that heinous institution.
No, that is not what I said at all. Is there something wrong with my computer or Topix? Am I typing English and is it coming out in another language on the monitors of others? I seem to be getting a lot of answers to questions and points I have not made.
No we do not have some shared knowledge, but again, the Bible is not the sole repository of morality and Christianity is not it only keeper and giver of moral lessons. Has Christianity really become this arrogant or have I been naive and it was that way all along?
I know the love of a son fighting alongside his mother and brother to keep his father alive. Listening to the ribs crack and break because of CPR. I know the love of a son and the guilt too watching that same mother suffer from Alzeheimer's and eventually die. I have seen a man fight desperately to save a marriage, to have his world upturned by an errant spouse. The woman he loved so deeply that even today the thought of taking her back if she would come, still occurs to him. He lost that struggle and moved on if you hadn't guessed. I have seen a man betrayed by a boyhood friend he had known for nearly thrity years. A friend he would have taken a bullet for. I have seen that betrayal turn a friend into a bitter, hated enemy. I have seen friends that were well loved lost to horrible accidents. I am not unique in my vision. Others have seen worse and some from a front row seat. It is part of the struggle of life through which we perserver. It is part of being human. Yes, in my personal, but not unique way, I have seen these things. Anything else that I have seen that you would like me to relate. I saw a UFO once. Not an alien ship, but an object that to this day I cannot explain. Maybe it was God.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66423 Dec 20, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
We haven't established anything. You can't prove your place in society and I don't want to prove mine!
Other than that, I don't really care what you deny. You started calling mentally handicapped people evil. I don't know what you were thinking but I don't like that kind of judgmental behavior applied to the handicapped.
You can call it a rant, but I call it a path that I've chased people down too many times, so I called it for what it was. Now you can come to me with what you really were thinking if it wasn't that. I claim that judgmental right to offset your "evil" bit.
So far, you've insisted that what you said was righteous and you stand by it.
Admittedly, you confessed that you did not know that the shooter was diagnosed as an Asperger's patient. OK. I can walk away from that, but you didn't. You played the dodger game. Something hurt you in a way that mattered and you refused to admit that the mentally handicapped need treatment, not punishment.
...and that's how this whizzing contest came to be.
....and I missed the "boys" reference entirely. Must have gotten lost in the mix. Never even heard of that song so you would have had to spell it out.
Anyway, I'll be civil if you are. What I originally stated was I pointed out that you had crossed an ethical line, not my personal boundary for declaring war.
I thought we had moved past this. You are still trying to one up me. Fine, if that is what it takes. I am a redneck womanizing, bastard with kids all over creation. I was a four sport letterman in high school that spent the better part of my time making gay jokes and bullying smaller, weaker children than myself. I am an evangelical, mysanthropic, pitchfork whistler, with delusions of mediocrity. I don't like people what is diffrunt than me. See you win. Now can we be civil?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66424 Dec 20, 2012
I fish wrote:
<quoted text>
Smith from Danville said-"Since God created everything, how can something not be of him? You will have to go deep on this one Rose Tyler. I am just not getting it."
You want me to say that God created Evil ...because to you Since God created EVERYTHING...there is the conclusion that He must have made Evil. He Allows Choice. He wants to see love. He's not like a demanding husband who asks his wife "Do you love me?" and then uses pressure to make her say 'yes'. His Love is a Sacrificial love that is the perfect example of freedom in a relationship. His heart is completely open and giving, It is why we love because he first loves us...Men are considered the 'Bride' of Christ as well Everyone needs perfect love to respond to.
Rose Tyler that is the obvious and logical answer. Given an all powerful, omnipotent, supreme being and given that he created the universe it is logical that he created evil. However, I have lost point on the previous post that my response was addressing, because I don't recall thinking, "I am going to get Rose Tyler to say God created evil."

Hold on a sec. I will be right back.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66425 Dec 20, 2012
anonymous wrote:
<quoted text>
We haven't established anything. You can't prove your place in society and I don't want to prove mine!
Other than that, I don't really care what you deny. You started calling mentally handicapped people evil. I don't know what you were thinking but I don't like that kind of judgmental behavior applied to the handicapped.
You can call it a rant, but I call it a path that I've chased people down too many times, so I called it for what it was. Now you can come to me with what you really were thinking if it wasn't that. I claim that judgmental right to offset your "evil" bit.
So far, you've insisted that what you said was righteous and you stand by it.
Admittedly, you confessed that you did not know that the shooter was diagnosed as an Asperger's patient. OK. I can walk away from that, but you didn't. You played the dodger game. Something hurt you in a way that mattered and you refused to admit that the mentally handicapped need treatment, not punishment.
...and that's how this whizzing contest came to be.
....and I missed the "boys" reference entirely. Must have gotten lost in the mix. Never even heard of that song so you would have had to spell it out.
Anyway, I'll be civil if you are. What I originally stated was I pointed out that you had crossed an ethical line, not my personal boundary for declaring war.
What would be your thoughts on the matter if the shooter was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder? Do you think a person with a mental illness can't be evil? Conversely, can an evil peron, you mentioned Hitler before, have a mental illness?

I am a little lost, I never mentioned what I thought should be done with the shooter had he survived, did I. I may have. You would probably remember better what I said. But shouldn't they be taken into custody. Examined by the courts and if found capable of standing trial, be tried by a jury of their peers and accept the verdict as handed down by those peers. It is the verdict of the jury and orders of the court that determine the disposition of such a person isn't it?

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#66426 Dec 20, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
You lost in your first sentence.
Just MORE of ridiculous attack junk--typical from types that do so to that they hate or do not comprehend.
Still think you're WRONG on some other of your inane statements as well, because MANY people learn plenty of GOOD things from books like Bible (and the Bible)-daily. Just because YOU choose NOT to, does NOT mean every one else does.
Than GOD-because mean people who just want to be rotten--- suck eggs in book :-).
But do enjoy your rotten eggedness.
Do you know English?

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66427 Dec 20, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Rose Tyler that is the obvious and logical answer. Given an all powerful, omnipotent, supreme being and given that he created the universe it is logical that he created evil. However, I have lost point on the previous post that my response was addressing, because I don't recall thinking, "I am going to get Rose Tyler to say God created evil."
Hold on a sec. I will be right back.
OK, I'm back. Sorry, a couple of detours and another long winded response. I hope you all can forgive me, but my office is cold and the only way I can keep my hands warm is by typing. That is why my posts are so long.

Here is what I was responding to Rose Tyler. You posted this as part of a longer piece.

"If it is not God...it is not good and shouldn't be associated with my God."

I wasn't trying to get you to say anything, just explain how you belief in an all powerful being can embrace the idea that their are things that are not part of him or that should not be associated with him. That is all. Just that.

Level 1

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#66428 Dec 20, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>What would be your thoughts on the matter if the shooter was diagnosed with bi-polar disorder? Do you think a person with a mental illness can't be evil? Conversely, can an evil peron, you mentioned Hitler before, have a mental illness?
I am a little lost, I never mentioned what I thought should be done with the shooter had he survived, did I. I may have. You would probably remember better what I said. But shouldn't they be taken into custody. Examined by the courts and if found capable of standing trial, be tried by a jury of their peers and accept the verdict as handed down by those peers. It is the verdict of the jury and orders of the court that determine the disposition of such a person isn't it?
Freakshow.........did the egg come before the chicken?

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Evolution is true.....

#66429 Dec 20, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
So may languages.. kind of makes even more modern day sense, when pondering a tower called Babel doesn't it :-).
The Tower of Babel is just a myth...like a lot of the rest of the Bible
anonymous

Chagrin Falls, OH

#66430 Dec 20, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I thought we had moved past this. You are still trying to one up me. Fine, if that is what it takes. I am a redneck womanizing, bastard with kids all over creation. I was a four sport letterman in high school that spent the better part of my time making gay jokes and bullying smaller, weaker children than myself. I am an evangelical, mysanthropic, pitchfork whistler, with delusions of mediocrity. I don't like people what is diffrunt than me. See you win. Now can we be civil?
Fine. You were still one-uping me with my "flawed" observations. I felt it appropriate to state that accuracy wasn't really the point. For better or worse, I do explain my methods because it's part of understanding.

May the force be with you!

“Eleanor, Where is your heart?!”

Level 6

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#66431 Dec 20, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I can't speak for what others hear in their head. All I can say is that there are other more rational explanations for what someone might think they hear. For all I know it could be God. I am not and I don't believe I have made that argument. There are a lot of things I haven't heard or thought, but I can't speak knowledgably on what other may have or haven't heard or thought. At the same time, I can have doubts about what they might hear or think they heard. I might even not believe it, but it is a disbelief based on experience and facts and not one lightly taken. I have my biases to be sure, but I am trying to pull back and view this as a whole picture. We are not just talking about what a Christian believes, but about what a person is capable of doing. Is the way I have articulated that clear to you or have I lost you again.
Again, Rose Tyler, I didn't claim a universal knowledge shared by everyone. There are people that have no real morals at all. Morality drifts about like spider silk on a wind. It is different in different places and times. I am told that human sacrifice was considered moral by the Incas. In the United States many found it moral to own other human beings and the Bible was used well and skillfully to support that heinous institution.
No, that is not what I said at all. Is there something wrong with my computer or Topix? Am I typing English and is it coming out in another language on the monitors of others? I seem to be getting a lot of answers to questions and points I have not made.
No we do not have some shared knowledge, but again, the Bible is not the sole repository of morality and Christianity is not it only keeper and giver of moral lessons. Has Christianity really become this arrogant or have I been naive and it was that way all along?
I know the love of a son fighting alongside his mother and brother to keep his father alive. Listening to the ribs crack and break because of CPR. I know the love of a son and the guilt too watching that same mother suffer from Alzeheimer's and eventually die. I have seen a man fight desperately to save a marriage, to have his world upturned by an errant spouse. The woman he loved so deeply that even today the thought of taking her back if she would come, still occurs to him. He lost that struggle and moved on if you hadn't guessed. I have seen a man betrayed by a boyhood friend he had known for nearly thrity years. A friend he would have taken a bullet for. I have seen that betrayal turn a friend into a bitter, hated enemy. I have seen friends that were well loved lost to horrible accidents. I am not unique in my vision. Others have seen worse and some from a front row seat. It is part of the struggle of life through which we perserver. It is part of being human. Yes, in my personal, but not unique way, I have seen these things. Anything else that I have seen that you would like me to relate. I saw a UFO once. Not an alien ship, but an object that to this day I cannot explain. Maybe it was God.
I wouldn't blame your computer for anything at all. Sorry my answer was encompassing more than you wanted.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66432 Dec 20, 2012
NikkiShae wrote:
<quoted text>
Does good and evil exist?
I think so, but it is hard to pin down and their may be some fluidity. It has been too many years since I have read on the subject.

A tornado isn't evil. But a guy that decides to kill a whole bunch of children can be. Hitler is considered by some to be what should be called evil, but he may have loved his mother. Jeffrey Dahmer has been described as a true sociopath. Since that is a psychological condition, I am no longer certain if we can still call his actions evil even though he purposefully, found, killed, and ate young men while hinding his crimes.

It is a great question. I don't have an answer other than to say I believe so.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#66433 Dec 20, 2012
Makesure100 wrote:
<quoted text>
Freakshow.........did the egg come before the chicken?
I suppose it depends on whether you and the chicken had a strong relationship or it was just a casual, one nighter.

Are you a fluffer for Jesus?

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Evolution Debate Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Might life have spontaneously have started mill... 6 min It aint necessari... 624
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 22 min SoE 48,383
News Should evolution be taught in high school? (Feb '08) 37 min Porkncheese 179,706
Richard Dawkins tells the truth 47 min Porkncheese 6
News It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in e... (Mar '09) 6 hr scientia potentia... 154,610
Science News (Sep '13) 15 hr _Susan_ 3,980
News Does Mike Pence Believe in Evolution? Thu scientia potentia... 9
More from around the web