Evolution vs. Creation

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008. Full Story

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#63782 Dec 7, 2012
Chilli J wrote:
<quoted text>
So your argument is that kids with fundie parents shouldn't be taught evolution? Because it could cause a "rift" between the parents who believe in the "creation story" and their child?
Good parents who have the best interests of their child in mind, want their kid to do his or her own thinking. If that includes his or her embrace of evolution, a good parent would accept that.
Fundie parents can have their kids learn creationism at home, church, Bible camp (anywhere but at school). Are these parents "stupid"? Nah. They're just not as evolved as some others! LOL
I have got to learn to read down in these threads before posting. There is always someone that posts my sentiments in a much more inclusive and articulate manner and I find that post just after finishing mine.

Hello Chilli. Hope things are going well. Looks to be a good Christmas for me. Well for my kids anyway. Looks like you have raced away from me in points. Well done.

“what we think we become”

Level 5

Since: Aug 11

above and beyond

#63783 Dec 7, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>You have a gardener?
I live in Cali

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63785 Dec 7, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
I was under the impression blacks are black because the environment they live in is hot and they needed to be black to survive? Wouldn't that be a adapting?
The same for whites where they live is colder and so they have white skin and more hair.....like Robin Williams
It's a "linked" genetic trait, I forgot the technical term. It's linked to one that causes a resistance to something which is abundant in Africa, but rare elsewhere, So it's a bit more complicated than that, but as I said, our cultures are starting to see the mix as "beautiful" so people who have the mixed skin coloring tend to find mates more often. It started with people of one skin coloring finding those of the other more attractive, funny how society likes to deny it's lusts.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#63786 Dec 7, 2012
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Main Entry: teach &#8194;[teech] Show IPA/tit&#643;/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: educate; instill knowledge
Synonyms: advise, brainwash*, break in, brief, catechize, coach, communicate, cram, demonstrate, develop, direct, discipline, drill, edify, enlighten, exercise, explain, expound, fit, form, give instruction, give lessons, give the facts, ground, guide, illustrate, imbue, impart, implant, improve mind, inculcate, indoctrinate, inform, initiate, instruct, interpret, lecture, nurture, open eyes, polish up, pound into, prepare, profess, rear, school, sharpen, show, show the ropes, train, tutor
Notes: learn means to acquire or gain skill, knowledge or comprehension; teach means to impart skill, knowledge or comprehension to
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tra...
transitive verb
1: trail, drag
2: to direct the growth of (a plant) usually by bending, pruning, and tying
3a : to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b : to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient
4: to make prepared (as by exercise) for a test of skill
5: to aim at an object or objective : direct <trained his camera on the deer> <training every effort toward success>
intransitive verb
1: to undergo instruction, discipline, or drill
Interesting...you SURE you know your definitions?
None of those say "teach" nor do they agree with "teach." You just want to justify indoctrination, and that is all. I bet you hit your kids too, beating them all the time, for simple mistakes I'd wager, things that are not actually mistakes.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#63787 Dec 7, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
Oh crap, I almost forgot the very important trait that KittenKoder's post reminded me of( sorry to end a sentence with a preposition, hey wait, now I didn't!)
Maz, did Apatosaurus have hollow bones?
Do birds have hollow bones?
Can you guess the next question?
No Apatosaurus did not have hollow bones? It is a dinosaur, not a bird.

Are you now trying to suggest that an 18 ton dinosaur could fly or flap its front feet?

Yes birds do have hollow bones. Arch did not have hollow bones either.

The next question is, what are you talking about? And the answer is, you don't know.

“Frankly, there’s a lot of mu­se­um pol­i­tics in­volved in this, a lot of ca­reers com­mit­ted to a par­tic­u­lar point of view,” Ruben said. In some mu­se­um dis­plays, he said, the birds-de­scended-from-di­no­sa urs ev­o­lu­tion­ary the­o­ry has been por­trayed as a largely ac­cept­ed fact, with an as­ter­isk point­ing out in small type that “some sci­en­tists dis­agree.”

http://www.world-science.net/othernews/090610...

Actually I would have thought evolutionary scientists would be used to being humiliated time and time again on the back of history of falsifications of was once irrefuteable evidence that only an idiot would not accept.

I have already provided a link to pictures of modern bird footprints dated to 212mya. There is no other creature that could have made them, including the 3 digit dino Kong linked to that was gobble about impressions made of the back of some spastic reversed claw, that still did not dispaly a reversed hallux anyway.

So evos can chase their tail as much as they like and I will still have modern bird footprints dated to 212mya and over half way to the Devonian, and you have nothing more than tales as to why these fotprints aren't exactly what they look like!

Hence of my 6 points you are challenging one of them number 3 being, that what should be found in the fossil record was first published in Genesis, and evos were not the first to think plants, sea creatures, land animals then mankind up. Secondly only whales and birds are out of alignment with Genesis. The actual data better supports a creationist paradigm than an evolutionary one. The hypothesis and scenarios evolutionists invent to expalin them is all that supports evolution.

Not only can I present whale bones found in an area over 290myo, the carbon dating was contaminated and gave inconsistent results, and your whale fossil line up is a fraudulent misrepresention. I can present modern bird footprints dated to 212mya and also more than half way to the Devonian, and all you can present are fossils that have lost their bird traits to dinos, making them dinosaurs, not birds. I am clear and you are still left to chase your tail.

Here is something else you may like....

A new analysis by researchers at the University of Michigan, the University of Chicago, the Centre for Biodiversity Conservation Mexico and Central America, and Boston University offers the strongest molecular evidence yet for an ancient origin of modern birds, suggesting that they arose more than 100 million years ago, not 60 million years ago, as fossils suggest.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/02/...

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#63788 Dec 7, 2012
Remember Subby

1. Creationist predictions are continuing to be validated with the expectation that 100% of the genome likely to be functional. This validation comes after evolutionists shoved junk dna down creos throats as proof TOE was true, there was no designer and creos were idiots. Now they scurry off in shame, suggest TOE never could make a prediction around non coding dna but creos can clearly see just whom the idiots really are!
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/notrocketsc...

2. Creationists predictions are vestigial organs are continuing to be validated by evolutionists finding that these left over functionless organs do indeed have function. This validation comes after evolutionists found function in these organs and had to toddle off and redefine the definition of vestigial to reflect ‘a different’ function.
http://www.naturalnews.com/022914_appendix_gu...

3. Fossil evidence that is more in line with creationism then TOE. The Genesis account was the oldest account published that suggests the alignment of the fossil record from plant s to creatures of the sea, then land animals and lastly mankind. Evos were not the first to come up with this line up. Whales and birds are the only ones that evos have out of biblical alignment . Surprise, surprise they have been having trouble with these two ever since. Evos are still confused over whale bones found in strata dated to 290mya and have had to invent mythical theropods to wear a reversed hallux although not one single theropod ever found has modern avian feet. The data supports creationism and the hubris supports TOE.
http://www.ehow.com/list_7182299_fossils-foun...
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v417/n68...

4. Beneficial mutations have an overwhelmingly negative effect due to epistasis. All the recent data supports this. Clearly this is evidence in support of creationism and an organisms inability to limitlessly adapt for billions of years. Evos have come up with many theoretical assumptions to explain this in evolutionary terms and why TOE is not falsified. Hence the data supports creationism and the hubris supports TOE.
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11...
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6034/11...

5. All data suggests the genome is deteriorating. Again this is creationist support demonstrating that adaptation is limited. Again evos have to toddle off and come up with some story and convoluted hypothesis as to why a deteriorating genome does not falsify TOE. The data supports creationism and the hubris supports TOE.
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info:doi/1...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/...
http://www.naturalnews.com/021220_genetic_mod...

6. Evolutionary supports are derived from arbitrary and pick a box morphological and genomic homology that changes like the wind and biased algorithmic magic that is no better than any algorithmic magic a creationists can provide. This is supported by an evolutionary history of falsifications, instability and change.
http://www.nature.com/news/studies-slow-the-h...

None of the above links are to creationist sites. Many of the above links are to the actual peer reviewed work.

Conclusion: Creationist views are supported by research data. Evolutionary views are supported by excuses, hubris, rhetoric and pure speculation.

Hence challenging my interpretation of the data only requires evos to hand wave the data away and turn it into an evolutionary consundrum. I can accept the data above for what it is whist you invent hand waving scenarios.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#63789 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
None of those say "teach" nor do they agree with "teach." You just want to justify indoctrination, and that is all. I bet you hit your kids too, beating them all the time, for simple mistakes I'd wager, things that are not actually mistakes.
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Main Entry: teach &#8194;[teech] Show IPA/tit&#643;/ Show Spelled
Part of Speech: verb
Definition: educate; instill knowledge
Synonyms: advise, brainwash*, break in, brief, catechize, coach, communicate, cram, demonstrate, develop, direct, discipline, drill, edify, enlighten, exercise, explain, expound, fit, form, give instruction, give lessons, give the facts, ground, guide, illustrate, imbue, impart, implant, improve mind, inculcate, indoctrinate, inform, initiate, instruct, interpret, lecture, nurture, open eyes, polish up, pound into, prepare, profess, rear, school, sharpen, show, show the ropes, train, tutor
Notes: learn means to acquire or gain skill, knowledge or comprehension; teach means to impart skill, knowledge or comprehension to
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/tra ...
transitive verb
1: trail, drag
2: to direct the growth of (a plant) usually by bending, pruning, and tying
3a : to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b : to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient
4: to make prepared (as by exercise) for a test of skill
5: to aim at an object or objective : direct <trained his camera on the deer> <training every effort toward success>
intransitive verb
1: to undergo instruction, discipline, or drill
Interesting...you SURE you know your definitions?
None of those say "teach" nor do they agree with "teach." You just want to justify indoctrination, and that is all. I bet you hit your kids too, beating them all the time, for simple mistakes I'd wager, things that are not actually mistakes.

3a : to form by instruction, discipline, or drill b : to teach so as to make fit, qualified, or proficient

{Also the first definition is teach...with the synonym train...}

Read...please...

And no I would not hit kids...or children...

Though you're asking for it if you keep it up...

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63790 Dec 7, 2012
Chilli J wrote:
<quoted text>So your argument is that kids with fundie parents shouldn't be taught evolution? Because it could cause a "rift" between the parents who believe in the "creation story" and their child?

Good parents who have the best interests of their child in mind, want their kid to do his or her own thinking. If that includes his or her embrace of evolution, a good parent would accept that.

Fundie parents can have their kids learn creationism at home, church, Bible camp (anywhere but at school). Are these parents "stupid"? Nah. They're just not as evolved as some others! LOL
Before replying to my post could please read the first 2 sentences. Your stupid is showing.

“Darwin was right..of course.”

Level 9

Since: Jun 11

Tempe, AZ.

#63791 Dec 7, 2012
bohart wrote:
<quoted text>
Back she bitch! back putrid bar wench,back Jezebel, back to the pus filled boil on Satans ass from whence ye spewed forth to infect mankind. Return to the dark nether world where thy faith in life giving goo illuminates the pit with a sickly greenish glow creating a night light for various imps and demons which make up the audience for the cascading bile erupting from the wound under your nose.Learn more from thy mentor Srewtape before once again rising from Satans rectum to the light, and the world of man.
Typical creotard feelings about women...why the hell would any women want to reproduce with creatures like this?

Since: Sep 12

United States

#63792 Dec 7, 2012
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>I must say that creation is being taught and has been for centuries in the local church of your choice. To move it to the public school system would put government in charge of religious teaching. Do you really want that? It would also open table to the teaching of creation theories from any religion out there including those you or others won't agree with.

I was taught evolution in school and it was never presented as the correct alternative to "my parents religious beliefs." In fact, my parents accepted evolution and still were Christians but apparently not very good Baptists.
No I do not want schools teaching creation. However saying its is a theory and leaving it at that doesn't teach it just shows it to be there.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63793 Dec 7, 2012
Maz, there are countless articles that affirm that Arcaheopteryx had hollow bones. Here's one:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm...

Birds are dinosaurs.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#63794 Dec 7, 2012
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63795 Dec 7, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Great, another Idiot for Jesus is spamming the board.
Why is it illegal to teach creationism in school? Because it is only religious hokum. And people like Inde prove that claim every day.
Sooo...you like Eisntien? He's always been one of my favorites too!!
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63796 Dec 7, 2012
Bat Foy wrote:
<quoted text>
While I don't disagree totally and I am in no way saying we shouldn't teach evolution nor am I saying don't teach creation.
When you have kids grade school to jr high who have been raised with parents who believe the creation story. Than a teacher tells them "no you your parents and anyone else who believes in creation is stupid we evolved" the kid is going to break one side or the other and it can drive a rift between parent and child or child to teacher. Rifts of mistrust can kill a relationship.
It's too bad the archaic, pitch fork and torch carrying witchlike types haven't figured out-that mid-eVILE type of barbaric animalistic thoughtlessness--went out with the dark ages--and theoretically creationism AND evolution--CAN and DO exist, for MANY-- cohesively!!(as many Scientists who were known to be quite religious, as well as scientific, in the past, would verify in agreement).
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63797 Dec 7, 2012
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
They should not say the parents are "stupid". They should say the parents are wrong.
What do you send your children to school for in the first place? For an education of course. Now if a parent is illiterate and cannot speak proper English does that mean you don't teach the child how to write and speak properly? Or do you simply say "We wouldn't want to drive a rift between Johnny and his parents so we are keeping him out of English class"?
It is a teacher's JOB to correct students. Part of the reason we participate in this debate is that we can show that Evolution happened. Evolution is the right answer.
No, it is not.

It is teachers jobs to teach the SECULAR subjects. It is parents jobs to teach WHATEVER FAITH they choose to instill in ther children, and there is nothing WRONG with that (as long as it is NOT harming OTHERS)!!!!!!!!!
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63798 Dec 7, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
alteration of time? LOL
Too hard a concept to grasp?

And really--it's SOOOOO simple!!
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63799 Dec 7, 2012
Cybele wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL. And you think everything in our history books are true?
Faith should not be confused with history...or science.

SEE: EISTIEN.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63800 Dec 7, 2012
Maz, you obviously could not see that the next question was going to be "Did Archy have hollow bones?" And he did.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#63801 Dec 7, 2012
TheIndependentMajority wrote:
<quoted text>
Sooo...you like Eisntien? He's always been one of my favorites too!!
Are you implying that Einstein believed in a god at all like yours?

He definitely did not.

At the most he believed in a god that set the universe going and that is all.
TheIndependentMa jority

Somerset, KY

#63802 Dec 7, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a "linked" genetic trait, I forgot the technical term. It's linked to one that causes a resistance to something which is abundant in Africa, but rare elsewhere, So it's a bit more complicated than that, but as I said, our cultures are starting to see the mix as "beautiful" so people who have the mixed skin coloring tend to find mates more often. It started with people of one skin coloring finding those of the other more attractive, funny how society likes to deny it's lusts.
The difference between mere animalistic behavior, and civilized society.

Civilized people can control themselves by litening to a little thing called conscience. Animals often can't.

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