Evolution vs. Creation

There are 20 comments on the Jan 6, 2011, Best of New Orleans story titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60776 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
So I take it you two are having a love affair. Sorry to butt in but you idiots cannot refute the the work about at all.
Instead you are going to play games of evasion and think you look smart because of it.
Creos have their own algorithmic magic to present. So suck it up evotard!
I've decided that you truly cannot see evidence that contradicts you. I think your visual cortex shuts off or something. So, it's not your fault.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#60777 Nov 24, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>"Take" what on? NO ONE CARES about junk dna. God you are obstinate. Dunning Krueger effect.

Ah yes, the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Actually I think she is more of a brain washed creotard, but she certainly evidences some D-K symptoms.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60778 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes this is not from a creationist site you dorkweek.
http://carta.anthropogeny.org/moca/topics/tel...
And you think that our having shorter telomeres means anything? WTF? You truly don't have a clue what you're talking about.

From your link:

The source of subtelomeric duplication sequences is primarily from other subtelomeric regions, and in contrast to telomere shortening, subtelomeric sequences have undergone human-specific large-scale duplication events since the Homo-Pan split.

Looks like they don't think it means anything about whether we evolved from primates either.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#60779 Nov 24, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yep. That is quite clear now. She's basically a sentient spam bot. She has one agenda, and no matter what, she cherry picks data she doesn't understand, spams it over and over again, and makes unfounded, ridiculous claims about it. She has so little clue she often times posts things that damage her argument without realizing it, even after it's pointed out to her. She's either stubborn or really, really stupid.

I vote for both.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60780 Nov 24, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah yes, the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Actually I think she is more of a brain washed creotard, but she certainly evidences some D-K symptoms.
Yeah. She has this inexplicable confidence in the strength of her arguments (which are always bad), along with a total disrespect of anyone who doesn't agree with her. She thinks she is a genius among idiots, somehow.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60781 Nov 24, 2012
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't even seem to understand the basics of evolution. For example homo sapiens is an ape. For another example Lucy was early after the split from the lineage that led up to chimps SO... You would EXPECT them to have much more classic ape features. So your entire "argument" is in describing EXACTLY what evolution would predict at that stage of our lineage.
Get your head out of the creotard antiscience sites and learn real science. If nothing else you will be able to argue creotardism better and actually sound like you know what you are talking about.
You ae a fuckwit dog on. I suppose you think I have never heard of man classed as an ape before.

Mankind is only an ape because you lot have poofed us into one.

In actual fact a child can pick the human out of a bunch of apes yet adult evolutionists have great difficulty.

Mankind is a furless primate that is also an obligate biped capable of making meaning of the world. No other organism fits this criteria, which demonstrates that evos are totally blind as well as desperate.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60782 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>

The telomeres are SHORTER in humans except for sperm. How do these idiots even get close to 'they are similar' at the fusion site from here? I tell you how, with as much twoddle as they need to dream up.
What is found is that indeed the telomeres in mankind are not the same as any other non human ape. Ours are shorter. One would think that would be the end of the story, but no. Evos will continue to keep clutching at straws and building straw men on weak foundations. That is why your theory is so unstable.
Wow. You keep proving how little you understand about this. Their length does not matter. Their arrangement on the chromosome matters. Where there should be two telomeres and one centromere, we have four vestigal telomeres, two vestigal centromeres, two normal telomeres, and one normal centromere.

Stop being stupid. I did tell you to read up on the subject.
Anonymous

UK

#60783 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
You are still standing there with your huge mouth open on the back of just learning that all our dna is likely functional effectively meaning that for the past decade evolutionists have pratted on about shit. Yu are the fu.kwits.
Why do you creos feel the need to try and oppose a the most successfull and complete theory ever made by man, its as if you think that evolution is anti god, which makes no sence, Christianity and evolution are totally compatible, only someone who believes in the literal words of the bible would object to evolution, but in all honesty, if you believe in the literal word of the bible, you are allready to stupid to argue with

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60785 Nov 24, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>And you think that our having shorter telomeres means anything? WTF? You truly don't have a clue what you're talking about.
From your link:
The source of subtelomeric duplication sequences is primarily from other subtelomeric regions, and in contrast to telomere shortening, subtelomeric sequences have undergone human-specific large-scale duplication events since the Homo-Pan split.
Looks like they don't think it means anything about whether we evolved from primates either.
Look are you capable of addressing Sanford work or are you just up for nit picking gobble today.

Shortening, large scale duplication, what do you suppose those are fancy words for?

DIFFERENCE! Like I said evolutionists have no idea what the same means at all. You invent these term that imply an evolutionary event when really you should be saying the comparison demonstrates huge differences that we evos can address with gobble.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60786 Nov 24, 2012
Come on you have failed every challenge so far you evos with your huge rubbish bin of evolutionary delusions past that you have shoved down creos throats for decades.

Try hanging on at least to your ch2 evidence as pitiful as it is.

Refute this work with your own algorithmic magic.

http://creation.com/chromosome-2-fusion-2

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Level 7

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#60787 Nov 24, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Yeah. She has this inexplicable confidence in the strength of her arguments (which are always bad), along with a total disrespect of anyone who doesn't agree with her. She thinks she is a genius among idiots, somehow.
Just like Answersingenesis, conseverapedia, william dembski, venomfangx, kent hovind, ken ham and quite a few others.

Too bad their arguments don't withstand scrutiny of more than 5 minutes.
Anonymous

UK

#60788 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
You ae a fuckwit dog on. I suppose you think I have never heard of man classed as an ape before.
Mankind is only an ape because you lot have poofed us into one.
In actual fact a child can pick the human out of a bunch of apes yet adult evolutionists have great difficulty.
Mankind is a furless primate that is also an obligate biped capable of making meaning of the world. No other organism fits this criteria, which demonstrates that evos are totally blind as well as desperate.
Wrong, there is nothing special about humans at all, I know you creotards have difficulty excepting that, because of your ego, first it was said that the earth is flat, then that the sun revolves around us, because we are so special, surely god would have everything revolve round us, right,, then when that was proven incorrect, you moved to we must be the only life with consiousness, and now that's not true, you creotards are saying earth is the only planet with life, and when that is disproven, what will you say then, you always have to think that you are special, that everything revolves around you, it is the thought process of a delusional mind with egomania, and an afflication all creotards suffer from it seems, they don't like the fact that we are just one species out of millions of others, and not special in any way, we are just a very small planet in a galaxy of trillions of planets, and that is just one galaxy of trillions of galaxies in the universe, which itself is just one of an infinite number of universes in the multiverse. Get this, there is nothing special about the human race, the fact that many other mammals, in particular, and certainly primates are proof enough of the non uniqueness of humans or conciousness, let your ego go, and embrace the truth, enlightenment will set you free

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60789 Nov 24, 2012
straa wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong, there is nothing special about humans at all, I know you creotards have difficulty excepting that, because of your ego, first it was said that the earth is flat, then that the sun revolves around us, because we are so special, surely god would have everything revolve round us, right,, then when that was proven incorrect, you moved to we must be the only life with consiousness, and now that's not true, you creotards are saying earth is the only planet with life, and when that is disproven, what will you say then, you always have to think that you are special, that everything revolves around you, it is the thought process of a delusional mind with egomania, and an afflication all creotards suffer from it seems, they don't like the fact that we are just one species out of millions of others, and not special in any way, we are just a very small planet in a galaxy of trillions of planets, and that is just one galaxy of trillions of galaxies in the universe, which itself is just one of an infinite number of universes in the multiverse. Get this, there is nothing special about the human race, the fact that many other mammals, in particular, and certainly primates are proof enough of the non uniqueness of humans or conciousness, let your ego go, and embrace the truth, enlightenment will set you free
Well lovey, you can either pick the odd one out, with man in with a bunch of apes or you are too stupid too. I guess you fit the latter category. We creos already know this.

I am not stupid because I can easily separate mankind out from a bunch of apes. We are the non furry primates ones that are obligate bipeds and can make meaning of the world and discuss concepts like creation/evolution.

You enjoy your conversation with a signing ape and good luck to you. May you live happily ever after.

Oh stop with your enlightenment dribble. You lot of evos are still waiting for the light to be turned on. Theist evos are the very ones that suggest this God that can save them is not powerful enough to create an organism just because mankind cannot explain it, like just about everything else. Well done you followers of the miracle performing Lord. These are an embarassment.

Go back to your junk dna and vestigial organ dribble. At least that used to be a convincing argument until that also got chucked into the great rubbish bin of evolutionary delusions past with the rest of the past 150 years of falsifications.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60790 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
Come on you have failed every challenge so far you evos with your huge rubbish bin of evolutionary delusions past that you have shoved down creos throats for decades.
Try hanging on at least to your ch2 evidence as pitiful as it is.
Refute this work with your own algorithmic magic.
http://creation.com/chromosome-2-fusion-2
greymouser you are also a troll. You have contributed nothing to this discussion. What happened did some of these wormy evos mesage you to geet on here to form soem sort of goose army or something.

You have shoved junk dna down creos throats ad nauseum for over a decade as well our knucklewalking ancestry and now you think your ridicule of creos will wash it all away.

You lot have already been exposed for the quackers you are. Now I just want to see if you can save your sorry asses on the chromosome 2 deal.

But it seems you cannot.

What do you think duplications and shortening, insertions and recombinations means dummy? I suppose to you it means 'the same'.

It is only a fool that would have stood on his pedastal sprooking to such claims with all the boldness of the blazing evo, only to fall time and time again, flat on your faces.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60791 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
Look are you capable of addressing Sanford work or are you just up for nit picking gobble today.
Shortening, large scale duplication, what do you suppose those are fancy words for?
DIFFERENCE! Like I said evolutionists have no idea what the same means at all. You invent these term that imply an evolutionary event when really you should be saying the comparison demonstrates huge differences that we evos can address with gobble.
Of course there's a difference you dolt. That's what evolution does, it creates differences. Again, you do not understand the issue if you think that telomere length means a thing about chromosome 2. You are beyond hope. Why do you think everyone keeps telling you that you don't understand the issue?

And why would I address creationist "science?" He has an agenda. He is not impartial. Therefore, he is not a scientist. Scientists follow the data, he follows his beliefs.

Level 3

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#60792 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>
greymouser you are also a troll. You have contributed nothing to this discussion. What happened did some of these wormy evos mesage you to geet on here to form soem sort of goose army or something.
You have shoved junk dna down creos throats ad nauseum for over a decade as well our knucklewalking ancestry and now you think your ridicule of creos will wash it all away.
You lot have already been exposed for the quackers you are. Now I just want to see if you can save your sorry asses on the chromosome 2 deal.
But it seems you cannot.
What do you think duplications and shortening, insertions and recombinations means dummy? I suppose to you it means 'the same'.
It is only a fool that would have stood on his pedastal sprooking to such claims with all the boldness of the blazing evo, only to fall time and time again, flat on your faces.
Hilarious. The funny thing is, I actually think that you truly believe that you have offered a compelling argument. You don't have a clue what we are talking about, and you keep proclaiming "victory." This isn't a competition, but if it was, you would be losing badly. You already demonstrated how ignorant you are on the subject when you posted evidence for me without realizing it, and then when it was pointed out to you you inexplicably defended your original post - claiming that your quote was evidence for your assertion. Hilarious.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60793 Nov 24, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Hilarious. The funny thing is, I actually think that you truly believe that you have offered a compelling argument. You don't have a clue what we are talking about, and you keep proclaiming "victory." This isn't a competition, but if it was, you would be losing badly. You already demonstrated how ignorant you are on the subject when you posted evidence for me without realizing it, and then when it was pointed out to you you inexplicably defended your original post - claiming that your quote was evidence for your assertion. Hilarious.
I kno I am not loosing the points I have made because so far you lot have tried to talk junk dna, vestigial organs, ervs, fossil evidence, and now the supposed human chromosome 2 fusion.

If you are as smart as you would like to think you are you can then address the refute I posted previously and perhaps offer an explanation as to why shortening and duplications demonstrate 'sameness'.

I'll concede when you evos finally admit that the research you are presenting is not empirical evidence for anything or if it is then creationist magic based on different assumptions can also be just as compelling. This is the truth.

Evos would rather remain egotistical liars then to fess up to the truth.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#60794 Nov 24, 2012
Mav, have I gone through scientific evidence with you on this thread?

Since: Sep 12

United States

#60795 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
<quoted text>I kno I am not loosing the points I have made because so far you lot have tried to talk junk dna, vestigial organs, ervs, fossil evidence, and now the supposed human chromosome 2 fusion.

If you are as smart as you would like to think you are you can then address the refute I posted previously and perhaps offer an explanation as to why shortening and duplications demonstrate 'sameness'.

I'll concede when you evos finally admit that the research you are presenting is not empirical evidence for anything or if it is then creationist magic based on different assumptions can also be just as compelling. This is the truth.

Evos would rather remain egotistical liars then to fess up to the truth.
I think rather than evos being liars I see it more as an unwillingness to see the other side. Theory is nothing more than a smart person guess. The trouble with evolution is the beginning. What I call adaptation evos call proof and they use it to laugh in the face of the cros. Evos will not ever be able to "convert" or convince the truly faithful because faith is believing without knowing all the facts. Most of the time science won't be able to reproduce, prove, or explain the "miracles" of the bible to evos its just a story to the faithful it is truth. However my faith hurts no one. I find it funny that my faith sends evos into a type or nerd rage where they compete for several thousand posts to prove that God isn't real. I wonder now that Christmas is coming up if they will spend as much time trying to prove their is no Santa.

Level 1

Since: Jul 12

Everton, Australia

#60796 Nov 24, 2012
MazHere wrote:
Come on you have failed every challenge so far you evos with your huge rubbish bin of evolutionary delusions past that you have shoved down creos throats for decades.
Try hanging on at least to your ch2 evidence as pitiful as it is.
Refute this work with your own algorithmic magic.
http://creation.com/chromosome-2-fusion-2
Your one point Tim, does not refute the basis of my argument against the ch2 fusion.

There are heaps of points in the article above. Pick one and defend it with your own algorithmic magic and then with a straight face infer your woffle is better than the above.

You have already demonstrated you are fools with all your woffle around dna, clutching at the last 20% only to have that ripped out of your quivering hands.

I doubt there is any research from 10 years ago that remains valid today from this mess of yours.

What is hilarious is that you have failed on a multitude of supposed evo supports that have been unpacked into the speculative woffle they are.

Now you have ch2 fusion on the table and you are still unable to address anything I put to you.

Here is a bit,,

"The most startling outcome of this analysis is that the fusion site did not align with chimp chromosome 2A, one of the supposed pre-fusion precursors. Furthermore, the alignment at two locations on chromosome 2B, an internal euchromatic site and the telomere region of its long arm, did not match predicted fusion-based locations based on the fusion model. If the fusion model was credible, this should have produced an alignment with the telomeric region on chimpanzee 2B on the short arm."

How does this below gel with being the same?..

These regions are therefore major sites housing genes that have undergone human lineage-specific copy number increases and contain sequences that have dispersed in a human-specific fashion to novel regions of the genome, an example being the sequence f7501 that has a single copy in non-human primates and 7-11 copies in humans at subtelomeric locations on multiple chromosomes.

http://carta.anthropogeny.org/moca/topics/tel...

Indeed I suggest the fusion site is not the same as 2a and 2b fused at all. There are genes on the human fusion site that chimps do not have, there are copy number increases, duplications and sequences that have 'dispersed' and f7501 that has a single copy in non-human primates and 7-11 copies in humans at subtelomeric locations on multiple chromosomes.

Depending on where you look, one chromosome section may be longer or shorter than the match of the other species, because one species or another lost or gained some genetic code relative to the other. In this example, the human chromosome 2 is longer than chimp 2A+2B. In other chromosomes and locations, the chimp DNA&#65279; grew from repeated patterns and new genes, compared to humans, and vice versa also occurs.

In other words the site is not the same at all as chimp 2a and 2b fused. In fact evos suggest the genome has evolved in both lines since the common ancestor so nor should much of it be like chimps today. Evos have just found some algorithmic magic to wave away the difference in chromosome number and that is all. Without that surely TOE would be shot to pieces. Is that not the truth?

The other concern is that there aren't 2 populations of humans with 2 different chromosme counts around. If ch2 fused in the human line this becomes even a more ridiculous and non plausible arguement.

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