Evolution vs. Creation

Evolution vs. Creation

There are 218714 comments on the Best of New Orleans story from Jan 6, 2011, titled Evolution vs. Creation. In it, Best of New Orleans reports that:

High school senior Zack Kopplin is leading the fight to repeal the Louisiana Science Education Act of 2008.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Best of New Orleans.

Chimney

UAE

#4274 Aug 26, 2011
Miss Touri wrote:
<quoted text>
How did God make Homosexuals? He made men and He made women. Where is your argument? An idiot must be a person who knows there are males and females.
Unfortunate? that's what homosexxuals are? if you think that's unfortunate why don't they simply stop?
It appears that homosexual men in many cases are created in the womb, by the interruption of hormone releases that masculinise the brain during a critical period of foetal development.

Now, I don't know if you would regard that as "God's doing", but if God created us then he created that potential development flaw. The upshot is, gay men are attracted to men in a similar way that women are - its wired in and there is not much they can do about it.

Its unfortunate for them in that to "stop" means either being celibate or faking interest in the opposite sex. Why should they? Who is actually the victim in this "crime" of a gay couple living together and doing what they do, whether you like it or not? How can it be a sin against God if God made them that way?

You and your fundie friends are nuts.

“To where does the one return”

Since: Nov 10

Miamisburg, OH

#4275 Aug 26, 2011
Kong_ wrote:
Now that is a gift that keeps on giving!!!!:)

Knightmares that is!!!!

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#4276 Aug 26, 2011
T Leary wrote:
<quoted text>
By this "logic" and I use that word loosley. We should also have a Santa Clause, elves, lepracans, faries, 3 eyed toads, birds that eat dirt... make up anything.
Since you seem to know so much about evolution please expain to us why or why not does ERV's in DNA prove or disprove evolution.
BTW: Your post are among the most ignorant I have ever seen on the internet. You are either a POE or have absolutly NO idea what evoloution is. For you sake I hope you are a POE, otherwise you need to seek professional help.
I am in no way related to Edgar Allan. Though he did write The Raven...a very talented poet.
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4277 Aug 26, 2011
Kong_ wrote:
Homosexuals are human beings. Anything that two or more consenting adults do in the privacy of their own home is of no concern to me, nor should it be to you, Chuck Smith, the government, or anyone else.
It's of concern to ignorant nosy meddling busy-bodies like Miss T because they can't mind their own business. Oh, and calling them "wicked" is not persecution, it's called "righteous".

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#4278 Aug 26, 2011
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow.
Just.....wow.
Okay...I oversimplified the concept.

"In the broadest sense, evolution is merely change, and so is all-pervasive; galaxies, languages, and political systems all evolve. Biological evolution ... is change in the properties of populations of organisms that transcend the lifetime of a single individual. The ontogeny of an individual is not considered evolution; individual organisms do not evolve. The changes in populations that are considered evolutionary are those that are inheritable via the genetic material from one generation to the next. Biological evolution may be slight or substantial; it embraces everything from slight changes in the proportion of different alleles within a population (such as those determining blood types) to the successive alterations that led from the earliest protoorganism to snails, bees, giraffes, and dandelions."
- Douglas J. Futuyma in Evolutionary Biology, Sinauer Associates 1986

Evolution is a process that results in heritable changes in a population spread over many generations.
This is a good working scientific definition of evolution; one that can be used to distinguish between evolution and similar changes that are not evolution. Another common short definition of evolution can be found in many textbooks:

"In fact, evolution can be precisely defined as any change in the frequency of alleles within a gene pool from one generation to the next."
- Helena Curtis and N. Sue Barnes, Biology, 5th ed. 1989 Worth Publishers, p.974

{I will still add that all these changes are due to random chance based on some scientists overall ideas of how their preconceived notions of nature and its rules work.}

Now, starting from these definitions, there would naturally be a causal effect of evolution eventually dismissing the death "gene" completely and working to solve the problem. Whereby humans would be obsolete in a sense and vampires, werewolves and zombies would eventually be the dominate species.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#4279 Aug 26, 2011
T Leary wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok, then explain using evolution knowledge and techniques why they obviously have to exist. Just because you say they have to is no argument.
I can say for you to exist your mother had to be a donkey and your dad a hummingbird. That logic is just as valid as what you have been saying.
Still think you are a POE. No one can be this ignorant in evolution.
Through evolution each species evolves into something better dealing with earlier problems right?

Take the problem of flight, evolution radically changed a line of animals and the evolved wings and took to flying.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#4280 Aug 26, 2011
flack wrote:
Looks like we are going to get a new east coastline.
Global evolution at work. Just go with it. And take out your surf board. Hang 10 dude.
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4281 Aug 26, 2011
laserbreath wrote:
>>>>All it requires is exponential reproduction (observed)with imperfect heredity (observed) leading to competition for limited resources (observed) and and higher survival rates for more effective variants (observed).<<<<

what imperfect mutation produced you?
that may produce the survival of the fittest, but doesnt come close to making a monkey turn into a man, a bird into a dinosaur, or slime into a 75 trillion cell human being (albeit over hundreds of millions of years)
A complete record of all the mutations are not necessary, despite your claims to the contrary. All is needed is successful predictions based on observable trends. The bird-dino connection is a good one as we do have transitionals fossils that demonstrate it. We have dino's with feathers like archaeopteryx and velociraptor. The pubic bones bend backwards just like a bird. The bones have cavities in them just like birds making the skeleton light. Some birds are born with teeth. Archie could fly, bird-like beak, feathers, but dino-teeth and claws, long neck and tail. Protein analysis also confirms the prediction - made only by evolution, and certainly not creationism. That's why evolution works, and why creationism isn't taken seriously by the scientific community.
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4282 Aug 26, 2011
laserbreath wrote:
>>>>>Help me understand this. So when Chuck Smith said: "...[I am] convinced that the Lord [will come] for His Church before the end of 1981."...he was repeating the words of God?<<<
the bible says no man knows. you would think that would shut up the naysayers and more evolved.(snicker)
The Bible also says the Earth is flat, and that lizards and donkeys talk.
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4283 Aug 26, 2011
laserbreath wrote:
evolution puts forth monkey-men, dinosaurs that turn into birds, whales that walk, goo turning into humans.
still trying to find just one.
The very premise makes "finding just one" a nonsensical statement.
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4284 Aug 26, 2011
John-K wrote:
I'm not sure that I agree that it's "just not towards God" so much as I would say it's just not towards your interpretation of God.
Ah, but you're forgetting that Miss T is the final arbiter on what God is, His likes and dislikes, and everything else you care to mention.

To disagree with her is to disagree with God. Uh, I mean to disagree with God is to disagree with her!

(like changing the order makes any difference)
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4285 Aug 26, 2011
laserbreath wrote:
Starting from a different assumption, that humans and chimps have a common Designer, the evidence points to a Creator using similar structures to perform similar functions.
Common design, eh? Okey doke! What exactly IS the “scientific theory” of ID/Creationism? Who or what is the designer and how can we tell? What mechanism did it use to do whatever it is you think it did and how can we tell? How is “design” quantified? When and where did it do it? What observations can be made in regards to ID? Why is this (potentially all-powerful universe-creating) designer apparently incapable of evolution and how were these limits determined scientifically? What useful scientific predictions does ID make? How can it be tested? How can it be falsified? Why do you always lie & ignore anything theologically inconvenient?

Thanks in advance for not answering any of my questions.

“Die Hard For The Trivial”

Level 6

Since: Jun 11

Location hidden

#4286 Aug 26, 2011
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Speaking of 'rationalizing'!
Chuck said OUTRIGHT that the end of the world was going to happen before the end of 1981(?).
HE WAS WRONG. Apparently he does NOT have God's ear.
I would bet you and he share that same quality.
Yes, I TRY (and struggle to be) open-minded as it pertains to other people. This is not to say I am open-minded about some things. For instance, prejudice and hated.
God MADE homosexuals as they are. The sex drive that all adults feel are different for them than it is for you, that's all. A leading hypothesis suggests that those persons born as homosexuals are inclined that way as a result of receiving too little (gay males) or too much (lesbian women) testosterone as a fetus [I *think* I got that right---corrections, anyone?].
It is not "SATAN" or the boogeyman that bops these individuals on the head and turns them gay. It is a biological condition that is measurable.
The fact that you have been taught to be intolerant of this class of people (probably by your "pastor Chuck") is inexcusable in this enlighted age.
How do you feel Jesus would react to your prejudice of his [gay] children?
The reaction of Jesus towards sin and sinners is mercy and love. He offers answers, salvation, redemption, life, righteousness, holiness...and without Him we will be judged in our own righteousness which frankly is a scary thought. Are you ready for Him to return?

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#4287 Aug 26, 2011
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow.
Just.....wow.
You must have been awed by my intellectual logic and ability?

Amazing ain't it?
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4288 Aug 26, 2011
laserbreath wrote:
Great Article to read:
Evolutionists have claimed that chimp and human DNA is up to 99% similar. These studies only looked at gene coding regions, which are a tiny fraction of the 3 billion base pairs in the human genome. When the chimp genome was sequenced, the number was reduced to 96%, twice as much difference as was previously thought. No matter what the difference, evolution would predict it, and evolutionists would claim it as proof. It is estimated that 40 million mutation events would be required to produce 125 million differences in the DNA sequences. There’s not enough time in the evolutionary explanation for this to happen.
Which is false, as DS already explained that calculations based on mutation rates point to common ancestry between chimps and humans approx 7m years ago, which is consistent with the fossil record.

But even if there WASN'T enough time, that shouldn't be a problem for you, considering the very same problem applies to the "global flood":

http://www.huecotanks.com/debunk/sorting.htm

So why not cut the coy BS and just say you don't believe in evolution because the Bible sez Goddidit with magic? It would save a lot of time.

“I Am No One To Be Trifled With”

Level 7

Since: Jun 09

Dread Pirate Roberts

#4289 Aug 26, 2011
Har-court wrote:
This discussion is such a waste of time, creationism is something you accept by faith and believe, evolution is something you can actually see in fossils.
The Christians out to be happy that the mystery of the zombie alligators in FLA was resolved, come to find out the brain neurons were affected by nutrition same as the brain of the Christians fed with a bunch of BS.
Actually, I beg to differ. Creation is what you see all around you, including in DNA and fossils. Evolution is accepted by assumptions, faith and lack of belief in God.

Don't worry, people get confused about all the time. Pleased to do you a service and correct you before you go through life with further wrong thinking.
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4290 Aug 26, 2011
Aunt JenJen wrote:
<quoted text>
It's always the most perverted who is the least tolerant. I always wonder why these religious people always seem to conveniently forget the whole "thou shall not judge" commandment. Why is it your place to say what is right and what is wrong. Being judgmental is just as big of a sin as homosexuality, if you want to be technical about it. So I guess I'll see you in hell.
Amen to that!

;-p

Hang on, wait a minute! Are you saying when us non-believers take the big trip down that Miss T will be there???

:-(

I guess that's why they call it hell...
The Dude

Sunderland, UK

#4291 Aug 26, 2011
Miss Touri wrote:
<quoted text>
And what are you?
A dude who simply points it out.(shrug)

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#4292 Aug 26, 2011
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually I have presented logical scientific ideas and you are incapable of answering them.
Now come on...vampires, werewolves and zombies. If evolution were true then obviously and logically these three would HAVE TO exist.
Why do that have to exist? There is no biological reason for you to exist.

Here is an analogy, it would be advantageous for humans to have two opposable thumbs and not just one -- therefore since evolution by natural selection selects based on environmental fitness, evolution is a failure because humans only have one opposable thumb. Do you see the logical fallacy in your thinking? Using imaginary creatures doesn't help your case, it just makes it look even sillier.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#4293 Aug 26, 2011
Knightmare wrote:
<quoted text>
Two things: I will present evidence why vampires, werewolves and zombies HAVE TO exist in order for evolution to be real.
And you use the same logic by arguing a negative concerning creation. By saying there is a lack of whatever you say there is a lack of concerning creation.
1. Please do, this should be interesting.

2. Not exactly. Proponents of Creationism make claims, but have yet to present any evidence of creation -- or their 'intelligent designer'. Another analogy for you -- if I claim Fairies make Flowers, the existence of flowers does not prove the existence of fairies. In order to provide evidence of fairies, I need something much more directly connected to fairies.

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