Noahs Ark. An engineers perspective.

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“Shaggin' Wagon.”

Level 1

Since: Apr 09

Springfield, MA

#1 Apr 10, 2010
I am hoping that an engineer will volunteer information about why the Ark is physically impossible. Personally, I'd be interested in a comparison with the largest wooden boats of history (and why they weren't bigger) and stresses. Especially, with tons of animals onboard.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#2 Apr 10, 2010
As the tensile strength and modulus of elasticity of gopher wood cannot be extrapolated from the strength and modulus of gophers, a quantitative measure of seaworthiness is impossible.

The Great Lakes Freighter SS Edmund Fitzgerald is slightly longer and slightly narrower than Noah's Ark. Her dead weight tonnage was 27000 tons. She split in half in a Lake Superior gale in 1975.

I would be happy to know if the giraffes' heads poked through the top.
What

Aldrich, MO

#3 Apr 10, 2010
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
As the tensile strength and modulus of elasticity of gopher wood cannot be extrapolated from the strength and modulus of gophers, a quantitative measure of seaworthiness is impossible.
The Great Lakes Freighter SS Edmund Fitzgerald is slightly longer and slightly narrower than Noah's Ark. Her dead weight tonnage was 27000 tons. She split in half in a Lake Superior gale in 1975.
I would be happy to know if the giraffes' heads poked through the top.
You forget that it was by God's instuction Noah built the ark. Does any today have the knowledge of the Creator of all things?

Matt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Mark 9:23 ​Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#4 Apr 10, 2010
What wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget that it was by God's instuction Noah built the ark. Does any today have the knowledge of the Creator of all things?
Matt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mark 9:23 ​Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
What about the giraffes?

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#5 Apr 10, 2010
What wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget that it was by God's instuction Noah built the ark. Does any today have the knowledge of the Creator of all things?
Matt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mark 9:23 ​Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
The ark was purported to be 516.24' x 86' x 51.6'(converted from cubits). There was supposed to be 3 decks. Using this data, we get a total square footage of 133,189.92 ft on 3 decks.

NOW. Assuming you do not accept the Theory of Evolution, you must arrive at the assumption that the number of species we currently see is exactly the same number of species that existed at the time of Noah.

According to conservative estimates, there are between 3 Million to 10 Million different species on Earth today (and the same number back in Noah's day, right?). http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1169/i...

Simple math:

Using the MOST CONSERVATIVE numbers, 3 Million species x 2 of each species (not taking into consideration species that reproduce via non-sexual reproduction)= 6 Million animals.

133,189.92 Sq Ft divided by 6 Million animals = 0.0221983 sq ft, or 0.27 sq in.

Lets be generous and give you a FULL square inch per animal.

......see where I'm going with this?
ScienceRules

Malvern, PA

#6 Apr 10, 2010
Noodly James wrote:
I am hoping that an engineer will volunteer information about why the Ark is physically impossible. Personally, I'd be interested in a comparison with the largest wooden boats of history (and why they weren't bigger) and stresses. Especially, with tons of animals onboard.
Of course it was possible. What most modern engineers do not know is that the properties of unobtanium, the material used for the structural integrity of the ark, are limitless. Unfortunately, there is no more of this material left in the universe today.
JRS

Oak Creek, WI

#7 Apr 10, 2010
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
The ark was purported to be 516.24' x 86' x 51.6'(converted from cubits). There was supposed to be 3 decks. Using this data, we get a total square footage of 133,189.92 ft on 3 decks.
NOW. Assuming you do not accept the Theory of Evolution, you must arrive at the assumption that the number of species we currently see is exactly the same number of species that existed at the time of Noah.
According to conservative estimates, there are between 3 Million to 10 Million different species on Earth today (and the same number back in Noah's day, right?). http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1169/i...
Simple math:
Using the MOST CONSERVATIVE numbers, 3 Million species x 2 of each species (not taking into consideration species that reproduce via non-sexual reproduction)= 6 Million animals.
133,189.92 Sq Ft divided by 6 Million animals = 0.0221983 sq ft, or 0.27 sq in.
Lets be generous and give you a FULL square inch per animal.
......see where I'm going with this?
"6 Million animals"
----------

No problem.

The entire population of humans on earth in 2010 can fit in my back yard - literally.

Using your 1 square foot -for a group photo the entire population of humans on earth can fit in Milwaukee County Wisconsin

Before you knee jerk run your mouth - do the math - I am correct.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milwaukee_County...

And you claim insects and stuff can't fit in an ark.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#8 Apr 10, 2010
Given that this wooden boat (and the flood it floated on) is the FUNDAMENTAL "fact" in the entire "creation science" paradigm, it is AMAZING that no evidence of it (or the flood that caused it's necessity) has ever been uncovered in over 4000+ years worth of looking.

Also interesting is that there is NO evidence of the people or animals that got off of the boat.

If Ham, Sham and Curly raced off to the ends of the earth to rebuild the Egyptian, Minoan, Indian and Chinese civilizations along with racing off to complete the Stonehenge monuments one would think that they would have honored the man who saved humanity from extinction.

Instead, Ham, Sham and Curly continued the civilizations exactly as if the flood never happened, even going so far as to describe a drought in Egypt at about the same time the flood was happening. Why, EXACTLY, would Ham, Sham and Curly be such evil sons and knowing the power of Noah's God, why would they immediately take up the worship of the gods of the civilizations they were rebuilding?

As for the animals, why is there NO evidence of the long journeys that all of the animals that got off of the boat had to make to where they are today? How long does it take a three toed sloth to get from the mountains of Ararat to South America.? How long does it take an echidna to get to Australia? Further, why would all of the same "kinds" of animals all go off in one direction: kangaroos to Australia, poison dart frogs off to South America, penguins to the Antarctic, etc.?

The casual reader will note the complete lack of empirical evidence for the supposed flood events.
The Dude

UK

#9 Apr 10, 2010
What wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget that it was by God's instuction Noah built the ark. Does any today have the knowledge of the Creator of all things?
Matt 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mark 9:23 ​Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Mark 10:27 And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.
Evidence?
The Dude

UK

#10 Apr 10, 2010
So JRS. Since you are a "Flood theory" proponent, does this mean you are admitting you were wrong when you stated there are no such thing as beneficial mutations? You do wish your position to be consistent, yes?
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#11 Apr 10, 2010
More questions that never seem to be answered:

How many trees needed to be cut down to make the ark and where did Noah get them all?

Did his neighbors appreciate Noah and his sons cutting down every tree for miles around?

How big would the keel timbers have to be for an aircraft carrier sized wooden boat?

Were the side planks overlapping or butt joints?

How big was the average plank that Noah used?

How long did it take Noah to finish all of the planks and timbers (taking into account that lumber mills, large saws and modern metal wood finishing tools did not yet exist)?

Did Noah use wooden pegs or nails in the construction of the ark?

How many nails or wooden pegs were used?

How many trees did Noah need to boil for the pine tree pitch that he used to seal his vessel?

How big was the one door that provided the access to the ark?

Where was the door located?

How small was the one window that the ark had?

Where was the window located and what does the phrase "in a cubit shalt thou finish it above" in reference to the window?

Why do all of the pictures of the ark show a superstructure (with a standard roof) when the Bible never mentions this?

----------

Since the "creationists" demand that EVERY detail of life on earth is answered before the accept it then it is only fair that they provide EVERY DETAIL (with appropriate empirical evidence) of their "hypothesis".

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

#12 Apr 10, 2010
In order to prevent explosive levels of methane gas, not to mention an odor of biblical proportion, the air in the ark would need to be totally exchanged every two hours. The velocity of the air in Noah's window needed to be maintained at 170.45 miles per hour for 11+ months. Unfortunately, the window was closed. No provision was made for exhaust gas.

Gen 6:15-16 "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above."
Gen 8:5-6 " And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month were the tops of the mountains seen. And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#13 Apr 10, 2010
15th Dalai Lama wrote:
In order to prevent explosive levels of methane gas, not to mention an odor of biblical proportion, the air in the ark would need to be totally exchanged every two hours. The velocity of the air in Noah's window needed to be maintained at 170.45 miles per hour for 11+ months. Unfortunately, the window was closed. No provision was made for exhaust gas.
Gen 6:15-16 "The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits. A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above."
Gen 8:5-6 " And the waters decreased continually until the tenth month: in the tenth month were the tops of the mountains seen. And it came to pass at the end of forty days, that Noah opened the window of the ark.
You know, with the HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of dollars that the "fundamentalist christian" community generates each year, that it would be very easy for them to prove all of the nay-sayers wrong. Pass the plate a few times, collect the money, build a big ark, fill it with the appropriate number of animals, put eight people inside, seal it for ten months and see what happens. If they can actually tow it out into the open sea, so much the better.

I would imagine that some of our resident "creationists" would JUMP at the chance to part of this HISTORIC experiment.

Odd (not really) that no one has ever bothered to prove to the world that the ark is "feasible" (tip of the hat to John Woodmorrape/Jan Peczkis).
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#14 Apr 10, 2010
What wrote:
<quoted text>
You forget that it was by God's instuction Noah built the ark. Does any today have the knowledge of the Creator of all things?
Then why didn't he just teach Noah to build an interstellar spaceship with a DNA "library" instead of a leaky old wooden boat and a mass of stinky animals that needed looking after?

It would certainly help with the "how did all of the animals get to where they are now" question by having the possibility of a "Noah just orbited around the planet and reconstituted the animals in the appropriate places using the DNA library and the matter reassembler matrix" explanation. Plus it has the added benefit of being a "cool" explanation to todays techno geeky youth.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#15 Apr 10, 2010
ScienceRules wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course it was possible. What most modern engineers do not know is that the properties of unobtanium, the material used for the structural integrity of the ark, are limitless. Unfortunately, there is no more of this material left in the universe today.
I'm guessing it was because of the extinct Termitus eatum unobtanium insect species.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#16 Apr 10, 2010
Gee, Junior claims that the entire human population of the Earth, in 2010, can fit in his back yard.

Assuming he is not stacking people, and that one person takes roughly 1 sq. ft. to stand in (they'd be packed in like sardines), that works out to Junior's backyard being about 200 sq. miles.

That's one darned big back yard. Must be a b*tch to keep mowed.
JRS

Oak Creek, WI

#17 Apr 10, 2010
MIDutch wrote:
Given that this wooden boat (and the flood it floated on) is the FUNDAMENTAL "fact" in the entire "creation science" paradigm, it is AMAZING that no evidence of it (or the flood that caused it's necessity) has ever been uncovered in over 4000+ years worth of looking.
Also interesting is that there is NO evidence of the people or animals that got off of the boat.
If Ham, Sham and Curly raced off to the ends of the earth to rebuild the Egyptian, Minoan, Indian and Chinese civilizations along with racing off to complete the Stonehenge monuments one would think that they would have honored the man who saved humanity from extinction.
Instead, Ham, Sham and Curly continued the civilizations exactly as if the flood never happened, even going so far as to describe a drought in Egypt at about the same time the flood was happening. Why, EXACTLY, would Ham, Sham and Curly be such evil sons and knowing the power of Noah's God, why would they immediately take up the worship of the gods of the civilizations they were rebuilding?
As for the animals, why is there NO evidence of the long journeys that all of the animals that got off of the boat had to make to where they are today? How long does it take a three toed sloth to get from the mountains of Ararat to South America.? How long does it take an echidna to get to Australia? Further, why would all of the same "kinds" of animals all go off in one direction: kangaroos to Australia, poison dart frogs off to South America, penguins to the Antarctic, etc.?
The casual reader will note the complete lack of empirical evidence for the supposed flood events.
"The casual reader will note the complete lack of empirical evidence for the supposed flood events. "
----------

Grand Canyon for starters.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#18 Apr 10, 2010
ROFLMAO
The Dude

UK

#19 Apr 10, 2010
MIDutch wrote:
More questions that never seem to be answered:
How many trees needed to be cut down to make the ark and where did Noah get them all?
Did his neighbors appreciate Noah and his sons cutting down every tree for miles around?
How big would the keel timbers have to be for an aircraft carrier sized wooden boat?
Were the side planks overlapping or butt joints?
How big was the average plank that Noah used?
How long did it take Noah to finish all of the planks and timbers (taking into account that lumber mills, large saws and modern metal wood finishing tools did not yet exist)?
Did Noah use wooden pegs or nails in the construction of the ark?
How many nails or wooden pegs were used?
How many trees did Noah need to boil for the pine tree pitch that he used to seal his vessel?
How big was the one door that provided the access to the ark?
Where was the door located?
How small was the one window that the ark had?
Where was the window located and what does the phrase "in a cubit shalt thou finish it above" in reference to the window?
Why do all of the pictures of the ark show a superstructure (with a standard roof) when the Bible never mentions this?
----------
Since the "creationists" demand that EVERY detail of life on earth is answered before the accept it then it is only fair that they provide EVERY DETAIL (with appropriate empirical evidence) of their "hypothesis".
And did Noah get his heatshield technology from the Klingons or Romulans, or did he cut a deal with the Ferengi?
The Dude

UK

#20 Apr 10, 2010
JRS wrote:
<quoted text>
"The casual reader will note the complete lack of empirical evidence for the supposed flood events. "
----------
Grand Canyon for starters.
So the "Flud" was powerful enough to cut the Grand Canyon, but Noah's dinky little wooden boat was fine?

So JRS. Since you are a "Flood theory" proponent, does this mean you are admitting you were wrong when you stated there are no such thing as beneficial mutations? You do wish your position to be consistent, yes?

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