Opponents of Evolution Adopting a New...

Opponents of Evolution Adopting a New Strategy

There are 3459 comments on the www.nytimes.com story from Jun 4, 2008, titled Opponents of Evolution Adopting a New Strategy. In it, www.nytimes.com reports that:

Opponents of teaching evolution, in a natural selection of sorts, have gradually shed those strategies that have not survived the courts.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.nytimes.com.

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Level 1

Since: Dec 06

Saint Petersburg, FL

#1 Jun 4, 2008
What amazes me is that they seem to think they are actually fooling anyone with their lame attempts at subterfuge. They use the exact same arguments, long disproven, under a different name, and expect it suddenly to be acceptable and valid.
larry g

Baltimore, MD

#2 Jun 4, 2008
Texas , always Texas
TheVinylVillager

Greenville, SC

#4 Jun 4, 2008
What amazes me is that these sort of people are too simple minded to see that the two ideas are not necessarily at odds with one another.

http://thevinylvillage.wordpress.com
Lester Phinney

Hermitage, TN

#5 Jun 4, 2008
What’s even more amazing is to hold onto the belief that a human being has somehow evolved over x number of generations from a chimpanzee. To pass off the religion of evolution as science boggles the mind. To consciously develop a theory that cannot be tested via the scientific method and then label such a theory “scientific” is the epitome of insanity. To hide behind a consensus, a poll among scientists, as proof that evolution is real truly puzzles the mind. In science, there can be no consensus. No one conducts a poll to discover what science is. When not even the fossil record supports the notion of evolution, for the evolutionist to condemn creationism because it cannot be proven is indeed the pot calling the kettle black.

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cracker

United States

#6 Jun 4, 2008
with all the objections being raised on wht & wht not to teach kids also the subjects tht hv already been removd & argued over they should just close schools down cause by the time their done there won't be anything to teach

Not tht I believe or don't believe wht is writen in the article hs nothing to do w/ my comment

It hs to do w/ how rediculous things are getting & petty they have become

“Electric Blue Sunshine”

Since: Oct 07

Riverside, CA

#7 Jun 4, 2008
Funny- you don't see groups of scientists running around the country trying to "debunk" Christianity.

Whay are so many Christians so closed minded? Why is their world view so "black and white?"

There is room for both faith AND science in the classroom.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#8 Jun 4, 2008
Dennis2 wrote:
What amazes me is that they seem to think they are actually fooling anyone with their lame attempts at subterfuge. They use the exact same arguments, long disproven, under a different name, and expect it suddenly to be acceptable and valid.
But they are fooling some people. Some hear the 'academic freedom' line and because it sounds so reasonable think it's a good idea. I've also had well meaning people fall for the "teach the controversy" and "free speech" tactic.

The academic freedom and also the 'strengths and weaknesses" tactics really piss me off because the driving force behind this marketing campaign has no interests in academic freedom nor an honest examination of strengths and weaknesses.

It's just the latest way of trying to weaken evolution and bring their religious ideas into the science classroom. I mean where was their academic freedom support when Evolution was fighting Creationism to just get into the classroom? The Butler Act of TN, the one John Scopes was convicted of violating in 1925, was on the books as late as 1964. It wasn't until 1987 and Edwards v. Aguillard ruled that Creationism/Creation Science couldn't be required to be taught alongside Evolution was the last nail in that idea ..and also the birth of the current headache Intelligent Design.

Like I said they are folling some people, which is why folks like us have to keep that awareness in front of folks. I've written each member of my local school board, the state school board, state representatives, the Governor, and Ohio's Congressmen and Senators on this issue. They know not everyone has the wool pulled over their eyes because of nice sounding words!
Zealotry Rising

Hillsboro, OH

#9 Jun 4, 2008
It's coming, folks. The fanatic zealotry so common in the radical Muslim factions is rapidly taking hold here in American Organized Christian Religion! They are adopting the radical mindset and they will not stop until every living person is under their tight, twisted control!
The TRUTH

Phoenix, AZ

#10 Jun 4, 2008
Oh, LORD!! Here we go again!

“Hey Mon!”

Since: Mar 08

Ocho Rios, Jamaica

#12 Jun 4, 2008
Da Truth wrote:
evolutionist think their MOM's a Hairy Baboon!!!!
Neither Science or English appears to be your strength.
Try a capital "E" with appropriate possessive attribution.
You must have been home or church schooled.
The TRUTH

Phoenix, AZ

#13 Jun 4, 2008
Lester Phinney wrote:
What’s even more amazing is to hold onto the belief that a human being has somehow evolved over x number of generations from a chimpanzee.
First, the above demonstrates that you do not understand evolution or what it says.

Evolution is only amazing to those who can't comprehend that it's supported by factual evidence from virtually every scientific field known to man.

It's definitely NOT an unsupported theory.

Read a book!

“Don't try to goad me...”

Level 1

Since: Nov 07

... I'm a goadless heathen.

#14 Jun 4, 2008
Just in case some of you couldn't be bothered reading the article...

"Evolution as a principle is not disputed in the scientific mainstream, where the term 'theory' does not mean a hunch, but an explanation backed by abundant observation, and where gaps in knowledge are not seen as grounds for doubt but points for future understanding. Over time, research has strengthened the basic tenets of evolution, especially as advances in molecular genetics have allowed biologists to read the history recorded in the DNA of animals and plants.
.
.
Mr. Fisher points to the flaws in Darwinian theory that are listed on an anti-evolution Web site, strengthsandweaknesses.org , which is run by Texans for Better Science Education.

'Many of them are decades old,' Mr. Fisher said of the flaws listed.'They’ve all been thoroughly refuted.'"

Since: Dec 07

Atlanta

#15 Jun 4, 2008
Once again we see creationist demanding special treatment for their ideas. Rather than actually doing the scientific legwork to convince the scientific community that they are right (I mean if they are right they should be able to prove it right?), like every other theory has done. They instead are using state and local governments to legislate their ideas into being taught. Special treatment! They also always seem to do this in the name of some vague notion of "Academic Freedom" which they also never seem to apply to any other scientific, historical, economic theories, ect that are taught in schools. So even when they cry for "Academic Freedom", they only want it applied to them. More special treatment!
Lisa

United States

#16 Jun 4, 2008
TheVinylVillager wrote:
What amazes me is that these sort of people are too simple minded to see that the two ideas are not necessarily at odds with one another.
http://thevinylvillage.wordpress.com
Thank you for this link. I did not take time to read it all ...yet. But what I did see was very interesting. By the way I am a graduate of Berea, class of '77. Have a great day.
Mimi

Spokane, WA

#17 Jun 4, 2008
Of course , we all came from the stars...

“Concerned in Tennessee”

Level 1

Since: Dec 07

Knoxville, TN

#18 Jun 4, 2008
TheVinylVillager wrote:
What amazes me is that these sort of people are too simple minded to see that the two ideas are not necessarily at odds with one another.
http://thevinylvillage.wordpress.com
Exactly! The religous right though, insists on literal interpertations of everything. They also believe the world is only 5-6,000 years old despite the astounding and overwhealming amount of evidence to the contrary.

These are the kind of people that if you showed them a white wall, would insist that it is really black, despite the evident of thier own two eyes.

Level 1

Since: Dec 06

Saint Petersburg, FL

#19 Jun 4, 2008
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
But they are fooling some people. Some hear the 'academic freedom' line and because it sounds so reasonable think it's a good idea. I've also had well meaning people fall for the "teach the controversy" and "free speech" tactic.
The academic freedom and also the 'strengths and weaknesses" tactics really piss me off because the driving force behind this marketing campaign has no interests in academic freedom nor an honest examination of strengths and weaknesses.
It's just the latest way of trying to weaken evolution and bring their religious ideas into the science classroom. I mean where was their academic freedom support when Evolution was fighting Creationism to just get into the classroom? The Butler Act of TN, the one John Scopes was convicted of violating in 1925, was on the books as late as 1964. It wasn't until 1987 and Edwards v. Aguillard ruled that Creationism/Creation Science couldn't be required to be taught alongside Evolution was the last nail in that idea ..and also the birth of the current headache Intelligent Design.
Like I said they are folling some people, which is why folks like us have to keep that awareness in front of folks. I've written each member of my local school board, the state school board, state representatives, the Governor, and Ohio's Congressmen and Senators on this issue. They know not everyone has the wool pulled over their eyes because of nice sounding words!
You're right. I guess I should have been more clear. They aren't fooling the people that ultimately make the decisions, and those that are educated about the topic. No court has yet fallen for their dishonesty, and in fact they've even been given a sound lashing by a conservative judge because of their dishonesty.

“I'm not your friend, buddy.”

Since: Apr 08

Amarillo, TX

#20 Jun 4, 2008
I think we need to focus more on rather or not our children are actually learning anything at all. The USA test scores in math, reading, writing, and science are bad enough without having to add some other stuff to confuse the hell out of everyone. Creationism can be taught by parents and religious congregation better than having to use tax funds to hire some "specialist." And it doesn't put anyone out. Seperation of Church and State hold strong, without any negative consequences.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#21 Jun 4, 2008
Lester Phinney wrote:
What’s even more amazing is to hold onto the belief that a human being has somehow evolved over x number of generations from a chimpanzee. To pass off the religion of evolution as science boggles the mind. To consciously develop a theory that cannot be tested via the scientific method and then label such a theory “scientific” is the epitome of insanity. To hide behind a consensus, a poll among scientists, as proof that evolution is real truly puzzles the mind. In science, there can be no consensus. No one conducts a poll to discover what science is. When not even the fossil record supports the notion of evolution, for the evolutionist to condemn creationism because it cannot be proven is indeed the pot calling the kettle black.
After reading your post I find it difficult to understand how you even figured out how to turn on a computer
wheres the moderation

Nashua, NH

#25 Jun 4, 2008

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