A Universal Flood - The Genesis Conflict

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“What's your story? Nevermind.”

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Since: Apr 13

none of my business.

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#894
Jun 13, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
More of a concern about sides is that you have not supported anything and seem to have no understanding of the areas under discussion.
And yes, you are a creationist. So am I. I just do not place restrictions on God as to how he must create.
I do not know what you are. I see positive and negative in both sides. I am for me and I hope you are for you. I will not be pushed by one or the other. I will go with what I want, not with what other people want. I don't follow the crowd nor will I kiss anyone's @ss. I can make up my own mind and come to my own conclusion. Either way it only effects me and does not effect anyone else.

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Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#895
Jun 13, 2013
 
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
The quran took the Torah and the OT and twisted it's words by a child molester, theif and murderer named mohammed, who claimed he was possessed by the devil.
If Islam worshipped the same God as Jews and Christians, why would they call us infidels and try their best to kill us???
Far be it for me to defend Islam, as I am no fan. But get your facts straight. Muslims by Quranic (Sharia) Law tolerate Christians and Jews in their communities, as "People of the Book" who worship the same God and Prophets they do including Moses and Jesus. They regard it as possible for good Jews and Christians to go to heaven.

The same could not be said for Christians in regards to Muslims or Jews, when the Christians had Theocratic power in Europe. Furthermore it seems Christians are in no doubt that Muslims and Jews will all be going to Hell.

It might even surprise you to know there are still Christian and Jewish communities in places like Iran.

A bit of balance, please!

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#896
Jun 13, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, I got one: God was so powerful that he could create the universe in a few days but, when it came to saving his creatures from death (something he originally built in) the best idea he could come up with was to have his son get nailed to a tree.
But he got better.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

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#897
Jun 13, 2013
 

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Nuggin wrote:
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Irrational fear of an imaginary figure is not the beginning of knowledge. It's the end of knowledge.
It isn't so much a 'fear' but more of a respectful type of love.

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Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

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#898
Jun 13, 2013
 
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not know what you are. I see positive and negative in both sides. I am for me and I hope you are for you. I will not be pushed by one or the other. I will go with what I want, not with what other people want. I don't follow the crowd nor will I kiss anyone's @ss. I can make up my own mind and come to my own conclusion. Either way it only effects me and does not effect anyone else.
This claim is not well thought out.

"It effects only me" is simply not true.

If you are perpetuating a way of thinking that holds back humanity, denies children a proper education and promotes mythology over reality, then you are effecting everyone.

The problem here is simple:
The religious people want to thumb their nose at science yet still avail themselves of all the goods and services that science provides.

If you were Amish, we wouldn't have a problem with you. You don't believe and you don't use our tech.

That's not the case. Telling scientists they are wrong while simultaneously using what the "wrong" scientists provide is the height of hypocrisy.

So, you are free to think what you like, but you shouldn't visit a doctor or eat any food if you think we're making this stuff up. None of that would be available without us.

“Maccullochella macquariensis”

Since: May 08

Melbourne, Australia

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#899
Jun 13, 2013
 
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
But he got better.
What? Did he get turned into a newt, or something?

“Maccullochella macquariensis”

Since: May 08

Melbourne, Australia

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#900
Jun 13, 2013
 
Nuggin wrote:
Irrational fear of an imaginary figure is not the beginning of knowledge. It's the end of knowledge.
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
It isn't so much a 'fear' but more of a respectful type of love.
OK, so you think Nuggin should have written:

"An irrational, more of a respectful type of love of an imaginary figure is not the beginning of knowledge. It's the end of knowledge."

Yep. Works for me...

“Pissing people off since 1949”

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Lakeland, FL

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#901
Jun 14, 2013
 
Bluenose wrote:
<quoted text>
What? Did he get turned into a newt, or something?
LOL! Good catch!

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#902
Jun 14, 2013
 
GLXGT wrote:
<quoted text>
I do not know what you are. I see positive and negative in both sides. I am for me and I hope you are for you. I will not be pushed by one or the other. I will go with what I want, not with what other people want. I don't follow the crowd nor will I kiss anyone's @ss. I can make up my own mind and come to my own conclusion. Either way it only effects me and does not effect anyone else.

The science is out there. It is very clear. I can believe water is dry if I want, but that does not change the reality.

How does one make up ones own mind about something one does not understand or have any background in?

I know nothing about 17th century French poetry as I know nothing about it. But I will not make up my own mind about it because of that very reason. With no reason to doubt experts in 17th century I will accept what those experts have to say. Unless I am prepared to spend years learning about it so I know what they know I am forced to do so.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

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#903
Jun 15, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Far be it for me to defend Islam, as I am no fan. But get your facts straight. Muslims by Quranic (Sharia) Law tolerate Christians and Jews in their communities, as "People of the Book" who worship the same God and Prophets they do including Moses and Jesus. They regard it as possible for good Jews and Christians to go to heaven.
The same could not be said for Christians in regards to Muslims or Jews, when the Christians had Theocratic power in Europe. Furthermore it seems Christians are in no doubt that Muslims and Jews will all be going to Hell.
It might even surprise you to know there are still Christian and Jewish communities in places like Iran.
A bit of balance, please!
I don't think you realize what the Muslims are doing to Christians and Jews.

We already know the Iranian President want to "WIPE ISRAEL OFF OF THE MAP".

http://www.blog.standforisrael.org/issues/sec...

Persecution of Christians in the Middle East

In the daily drumbeat of Mideast news, there is one story of historic proportion that is nearly unreported: the growing persecution and systematic destruction in the Islamic world of some of the world’s oldest Christian communities.

We hear when a Catholic bishop is murdered in Iraq, when machete-armed fanatics attack Egyptian Copt worshipers, or when churches are torched in Hamas-controlled Gaza. But what about the jailing in Saudi Arabia of foreign workers for holding forbidden Christian prayers? Or the arrest in Pakistan of a Christian man for marrying a Muslim woman? Or the continuing Islamic educational system that teaches the young that Christians (as well as Jews) are “the descendants of apes and pigs”?

The pattern is nearly the same wherever extremist Islam holds sway. From Bangladesh to Darfur, Christians have become regular targets for Islamic thugs and the governments that back them. Just this month, a Pakistani court upheld the kidnapping, conversion and “marriage” to older Moslem men of two Christian sisters, aged 10 and 13.

Yet even in lands that are not under orthodox Sharia law, Christian communities feel the pressure of persecution. In constitutionally secular Turkey, a legally recognized Protestant church in the capital of Ankara is under threat of closure by local Islamist police.

Many Christians in Islamic lands have become subject to such terror that they are fleeing the homelands their ancestors have known almost since the time of Jesus. Iraq’s Christian sects now feel forced to pray in secret. Others simply leave. Although they comprise less than four percent of Iraq’s population, Iraqi Christians now account for 40 per cent of its refugees.

Lebanon’s once politically powerful Christian community has already shrunken almost beyond recognition. Thirty years ago, Lebanon was 60% Christian; today it is barely 25%. The growing political power of Iran-backed Hezbollah is encouraging further departures.

Even in the Holy Land, where Jesus walked, there is an increasing Christian exodus from both the West Bank and Gaza. Part of it surely stems from the continuing Palestinian- Israeli conflict. But much of it results from a growing Islamic campaign to force Christians to sell their property and leave. Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was once 90% Christian. Today it has a 65% Moslem majority.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#904
Jun 15, 2013
 
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think you realize what the Muslims are doing to Christians and Jews.
We already know the Iranian President want to "WIPE ISRAEL OFF OF THE MAP".
http://www.blog.standforisrael.org/issues/sec...
Persecution of Christians in the Middle East
In the daily drumbeat of Mideast news, there is one story of historic proportion that is nearly unreported: the growing persecution and systematic destruction in the Islamic world of some of the world’s oldest Christian communities.
We hear when a Catholic bishop is murdered in Iraq, when machete-armed fanatics attack Egyptian Copt worshipers, or when churches are torched in Hamas-controlled Gaza. But what about the jailing in Saudi Arabia of foreign workers for holding forbidden Christian prayers? Or the arrest in Pakistan of a Christian man for marrying a Muslim woman? Or the continuing Islamic educational system that teaches the young that Christians (as well as Jews) are “the descendants of apes and pigs”?
The pattern is nearly the same wherever extremist Islam holds sway. From Bangladesh to Darfur, Christians have become regular targets for Islamic thugs and the governments that back them. Just this month, a Pakistani court upheld the kidnapping, conversion and “marriage” to older Moslem men of two Christian sisters, aged 10 and 13.
Yet even in lands that are not under orthodox Sharia law, Christian communities feel the pressure of persecution. In constitutionally secular Turkey, a legally recognized Protestant church in the capital of Ankara is under threat of closure by local Islamist police.
Many Christians in Islamic lands have become subject to such terror that they are fleeing the homelands their ancestors have known almost since the time of Jesus. Iraq’s Christian sects now feel forced to pray in secret. Others simply leave. Although they comprise less than four percent of Iraq’s population, Iraqi Christians now account for 40 per cent of its refugees.
Lebanon’s once politically powerful Christian community has already shrunken almost beyond recognition. Thirty years ago, Lebanon was 60% Christian; today it is barely 25%. The growing political power of Iran-backed Hezbollah is encouraging further departures.
Even in the Holy Land, where Jesus walked, there is an increasing Christian exodus from both the West Bank and Gaza. Part of it surely stems from the continuing Palestinian- Israeli conflict. But much of it results from a growing Islamic campaign to force Christians to sell their property and leave. Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was once 90% Christian. Today it has a 65% Moslem majority.
Jealousy is a terrible thing, muggins...

Anyway, weren't you saying something the other day about Catholics being a part of the world-wide Islamic conspiracy or something?

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

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#905
Jun 17, 2013
 

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imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think you realize what the Muslims are doing to Christians and Jews.
We already know the Iranian President want to "WIPE ISRAEL OFF OF THE MAP".
http://www.blog.standforisrael.org/issues/sec...
Persecution of Christians in the Middle East
In the daily drumbeat of Mideast news, there is one story of historic proportion that is nearly unreported: the growing persecution and systematic destruction in the Islamic world of some of the world’s oldest Christian communities.
We hear when a Catholic bishop is murdered in Iraq, when machete-armed fanatics attack Egyptian Copt worshipers, or when churches are torched in Hamas-controlled Gaza. But what about the jailing in Saudi Arabia of foreign workers for holding forbidden Christian prayers? Or the arrest in Pakistan of a Christian man for marrying a Muslim woman? Or the continuing Islamic educational system that teaches the young that Christians (as well as Jews) are “the descendants of apes and pigs”?
The pattern is nearly the same wherever extremist Islam holds sway. From Bangladesh to Darfur, Christians have become regular targets for Islamic thugs and the governments that back them. Just this month, a Pakistani court upheld the kidnapping, conversion and “marriage” to older Moslem men of two Christian sisters, aged 10 and 13.
Yet even in lands that are not under orthodox Sharia law, Christian communities feel the pressure of persecution. In constitutionally secular Turkey, a legally recognized Protestant church in the capital of Ankara is under threat of closure by local Islamist police.
Many Christians in Islamic lands have become subject to such terror that they are fleeing the homelands their ancestors have known almost since the time of Jesus. Iraq’s Christian sects now feel forced to pray in secret. Others simply leave. Although they comprise less than four percent of Iraq’s population, Iraqi Christians now account for 40 per cent of its refugees.
Lebanon’s once politically powerful Christian community has already shrunken almost beyond recognition. Thirty years ago, Lebanon was 60% Christian; today it is barely 25%. The growing political power of Iran-backed Hezbollah is encouraging further departures.
Even in the Holy Land, where Jesus walked, there is an increasing Christian exodus from both the West Bank and Gaza. Part of it surely stems from the continuing Palestinian- Israeli conflict. But much of it results from a growing Islamic campaign to force Christians to sell their property and leave. Bethlehem, the birthplace of Jesus, was once 90% Christian. Today it has a 65% Moslem majority.
I told you I am mo fan of Islam. However you are oblivious to the underlying reasons for a lot of it. Christian and Jewish communities thrived for centuries in these Muslim countries. The difference today is that the Jews annexed Palestine with Christian backing. I wonder how the West would react if the Apaches annexed Arizona and declared it independent of the USA with the financial and military backing of the Muslims. Would you not be at war with both the Apaches and their Muslim supporters? What about Apaches and Musl8ms in your own neighbourhood. Would you suspect them of conspiring with the en3my? Be honest.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

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#906
Jun 18, 2013
 
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
I told you I am mo fan of Islam. However you are oblivious to the underlying reasons for a lot of it. Christian and Jewish communities thrived for centuries in these Muslim countries. The difference today is that the Jews annexed Palestine with Christian backing. I wonder how the West would react if the Apaches annexed Arizona and declared it independent of the USA with the financial and military backing of the Muslims. Would you not be at war with both the Apaches and their Muslim supporters? What about Apaches and Musl8ms in your own neighbourhood. Would you suspect them of conspiring with the en3my? Be honest.

I agree this is a big source of hostility between the various religious stakeholders, but I don't agree that this is the root source of the conflict. The issues of three religions trying to share a region while competing for dominance go back a long way. The middle east is the permanent home of the religious war hall of fame.

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Lisbon, Portugal

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#907
Jul 15, 2013
 

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Legionnaire wrote:
Professor Walter Veith (zoology) while holding his lecture “A Universal Flood”.
Here he’s talking about the cretaceous layer, which can only form in water;
“The cretaceous layer, is the one layer that is universal. Take note; the cretaceous layer is the one layer that stretches from continent to continent. And in some areas it’s thick, in other areas it’s less thick, but it is universal, and it covers every single continent. And it’s on the same base rock, so, my question to you is this; if that layer is universal it tells us one thing; and that is what?– That the whole world MUST HAVE BEEN UNDER WATER AT THE SAME TIME....
There are so may problems associated with the idea of a global flood. I'll give an example of why the biblical flood did not happen. And I'll do that using creationist arguments.

If the biblical flood account were true, all modern animal life would descend from a pair of ancestors (a male and a female) saved in Noa's ark. Considering the creationist view that no new genetic information is added, all modern animal life would have the same genetic information of the ancestors in the ark. Animals have 2 copies, or alleles, of each gene (except for a few exceptions) and alleles of the same gene can come in different versions (like the allele for blue eyes and the allele for brown eyes). It follows that each gene could only have a maximum of 4 different alleles (2 from each parent saved in the ark). However, we can observe that some genes have a lot more than 4 different alleles. If new information is impossible, where did the extra alleles come from? The conclusion is inevitable. The creationist view is incorrect.

“I am Sisyphus”

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#908
Jul 16, 2013
 
CH2O2 wrote:
<quoted text>
There are so may problems associated with the idea of a global flood. I'll give an example of why the biblical flood did not happen. And I'll do that using creationist arguments.
If the biblical flood account were true, all modern animal life would descend from a pair of ancestors (a male and a female) saved in Noa's ark. Considering the creationist view that no new genetic information is added, all modern animal life would have the same genetic information of the ancestors in the ark. Animals have 2 copies, or alleles, of each gene (except for a few exceptions) and alleles of the same gene can come in different versions (like the allele for blue eyes and the allele for brown eyes). It follows that each gene could only have a maximum of 4 different alleles (2 from each parent saved in the ark). However, we can observe that some genes have a lot more than 4 different alleles. If new information is impossible, where did the extra alleles come from? The conclusion is inevitable. The creationist view is incorrect.

Nice post. Only one of many ways genetics refutes both the flood and that creation story.

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#909
Jul 18, 2013
 
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice post. Only one of many ways genetics refutes both the flood and that creation story.
It is quite obvious the creationist story is incorrect. All it takes is to define the key concepts used in creationist arguments. If only creationists would define the term "information" when used in genetics, they would come to the inevitable conclusion that the whole argument is flawed. Unfortunately, creationists often lack precise definitions.

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