A Trojan Horse for Creationism

A Trojan Horse for Creationism

There are 1536 comments on the Truthdig story from Mar 8, 2013, titled A Trojan Horse for Creationism. In it, Truthdig reports that:

I watched in shock the summer before my sophomore year of high school as my home state, Louisiana, passed a law that opened the door for the teaching of creationism.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1271 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
"actually there is no selction going on"
oh ... but yes there is a selection process
Why is natural selection .. a principle recognized by creationists .. taught as ‘evolution’.. as if it explains the origin of the diversity of life ?... By definition it is a selective process (selecting from already existing information).. so is not a creative process .. It might explain the survival of the fittest (why certain genes benefit creatures more in certain environments).. but not the arrival of the fittest (where the genes and creatures came from in the first place)... The death of individuals not adapted to an environment and the survival of those that are suited does not explain the origin of the traits that make an organism adapted to an environment .. E.g .. how do minor back-and-forth variations in finch beaks explain the origin of beaks or finches ?... How does natural selection explain goo-to-you evolution?
http://creation.com/defining-terms .. Evolutionist Dr John Endler’s refreshing clarity about ‘natural selection’ has been largely ignored
http://creation.com/genesis-unleashed... .. Video
if you can't figure that out, you are really not up to this level of discussion. perhaps you should find a chat room about angels and fairies and stuff.

the bird able to crack open seeds would be able to survive better.

again, no selection going on, just nature...

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1272 Mar 17, 2013
yes indeed ... a bird able and "deciding" to crack open seeds would be able to survive better

........ http://creation.com/creation-station

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#1273 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
yes indeed ... a bird able and "deciding" to crack open seeds would be able to survive better
........ http://creation.com/creation-station
So, when will you stop advertising your website?

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1275 Mar 17, 2013
atheist "logic":.. selection does not mean selection .. it means ...

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1276 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
yes indeed ... a bird able and "deciding" to crack open seeds would be able to survive better
........ http://creation.com/creation-station
no, but one having that beak would be. animals do not decide what they are born with.

you really aren't up for this level of discussion are you?

is that your dad's photo you're using?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1277 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
atheist "logic":.. selection does not mean selection .. it means ...
it mens a concept beyond your understanding, even though it has been laid out for you fact by fact.
Or will be when you get to high school.

Since: Aug 10

Hollis Center, ME

#1278 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
atheist "logic":.. selection does not mean selection .. it means ...
You tend to go on long rants that are completely irrellevant to the conversation.

Everyone is entitled to their beliefs, including you and me. The ACTUAL TOPIC of this thread is the attempt to sneak ID into the schools. Its an attempt by religious groups to teach religion in PUBLIC schools.

ID would not be a science class by its very name "Intelligent Design". You simply cant get around the god part of that.

I dont care what your beliefs are, but they DO NOT BELONG IN PUBLIC SCHOOL. There is no curriculum ID can be taught under.

If you want religion, go to church!

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1279 Mar 17, 2013
so in the atheist's definition of "selection" .. it simply means ....... go

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1280 Mar 17, 2013
FFS- wrote:
You tend to go on long rants that are completely irrellevant to the conversation everyone is entitled to their beliefs including you and me the ACTUAL TOPIC of this thread is the attempt to sneak ID into the schools its an attempt by religious groups to teach religion in PUBLIC schools ID would not be a science class by its very name Intelligent Design you simply cant get around the god part of that I dont care what your beliefs are but they DO NOT BELONG IN PUBLIC SCHOOL There is no curriculum ID can be taught under If you want religion go to church
blah blah .......

Frequently described as “the Cambrian Explosion,” the development of these new animal types required a massive increase in genetic information.“The big question that the Cambrian Explosion poses is where does all that new information come from?” says Dr. Stephen Meyer, a featured expert in the documentary and author of the book Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design. Growing evidence suggests that the creation of novel genetic information requires intelligence, and thus the burst of genetic information during the Cambrian Explosion provides convincing evidence that animal life is the product of intelligent design rather than a blind undirected process like natural selection ... http://www.darwinsdilemma.org/ .. continue

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1281 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
so in the atheist's definition of "selection" .. it simply means ....... go
in terms of natural selection, as stated, as concept you do not get.

so in a religious cult members' definition of their god proven to be a myth, that means what? go...

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1282 Mar 17, 2013
selection does not mean selection ??

so in the atheist's definition of "selection" .. it simply means .......

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1283 Mar 17, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
In terms of natural "selection" .. as stated
please clarify .. before, you did not explain

Since: Aug 10

Hollis Center, ME

#1284 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
blah blah .......
Frequently described as “the Cambrian Explosion,” the development of these new animal types required a massive increase in genetic information.“The big question that the Cambrian Explosion poses is where does all that new information come from?” says Dr. Stephen Meyer, a featured expert in the documentary and author of the book Signature in the Cell: DNA and the Evidence for Intelligent Design. Growing evidence suggests that the creation of novel genetic information requires intelligence, and thus the burst of genetic information during the Cambrian Explosion provides convincing evidence that animal life is the product of intelligent design rather than a blind undirected process like natural selection ... http://www.darwinsdilemma.org/ .. continue
When did Christians become so cowardly?

I dont think God is proud of cowards like yourself.

So your answer is Turly as weak as "blah blah"....seriously?

You either understand that you cannot hold that conversation, or you are simply not bright enough.

I pity you for your cowardice!

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1286 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
selection does not mean selection ??
so in the atheist's definition of "selection" .. it simply means .......
Natural selection describes how some animals are more apt to pass on their genes than others. So that does not necessarily mean the biggest and strongest. There are times when bigger and stronger means the animal must east more food to survive and in hard times it may be the smaller critter that is more "fit" for that particular environment. Smallness may be selected for if the big strong versions die of hunger before they mate.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#1287 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
How long will it take in-order for those one million tooth picks to "accidently" spell out the Gettysburg Address (1863)?? all correct spelling and punctuation ....
A REALLY long time.

But now let's add another factor that you like you conveniently leave out ('cuz you're a lying Jesus Freak, right?".

To make this analogy much more like the process of biological evolution, let;s add a filter whereby every time a series of toothpicks form a word or phrase that's in the Gettysburg Address, it is KEPT for the next throw of the toothpicks.

How long would it take then to form the whole address? Not long at all, right?

Now, instead of just one person throwing toothpicks, let's have a TRILLION TRILLION people throwing them at the same time. How long THEN (with the filter of natural selection, mind you) to throw the whole address?

5 minutes? LOL!

“ad victoriam”

Level 8

Since: Dec 10

arte et marte

#1288 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
selection does not mean selection ??
so in the atheist's definition of "selection" .. it simply means .......

Exactly the same thing as it does for ignorant ficks like you.
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#1289 Mar 17, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Frequently described as “the Cambrian Explosion,” the development of these new animal types required a massive increase in genetic information.
Creationist Claim CC300:

Complex life forms appear suddenly in the Cambrian explosion, with no ancestral fossils.

Response:

1. The Cambrian explosion was the seemingly sudden appearance of a variety of complex animals about 540 million years ago (Mya), but it was not the origin of complex life. Evidence of multicellular life from about 590 and 560 Mya appears in the Doushantuo Formation in China (Chen et al. 2000, 2004), and diverse fossil forms occurred before 555 Mya (Martin et al. 2000).(The Cambrian began 543 Mya., and the Cambrian explosion is considered by many to start with the first trilobites, about 530 Mya.) Testate amoebae are known from about 750 Mya (Porter and Knoll 2000). There are tracelike fossils more than 1,200 Mya in the Stirling Range Formation of Australia (Rasmussen et al. 2002). Eukaryotes (which have relatively complex cells) may have arisen 2,700 Mya, according to fossil chemical evidence (Brocks et al. 1999). Stromatolites show evidence of microbial life 3,430 Mya (Allwood et al. 2006). Fossil microorganisms may have been found from 3,465 Mya (Schopf 1993). There is isotopic evidence of sulfur-reducing bacteria from 3,470 Mya (Shen et al. 2001) and possible evidence of microbial etching of volcanic glass from 3,480 Mya (Furnes et al. 2004).

2. There are transitional fossils within the Cambrian explosion fossils. For example, there are lobopods (basically worms with legs) which are intermediate between arthropods and worms (Conway Morris 1998).

3. Only some phyla appear in the Cambrian explosion. In particular, all plants postdate the Cambrian, and flowering plants, by far the dominant form of land life today, only appeared about 140 Mya (Brown 1999).

Even among animals, not all types appear in the Cambrian. Cnidarians, sponges, and probably other phyla appeared before the Cambrian. Molecular evidence shows that at least six animal phyla are Precambrian (Wang et al. 1999). Bryozoans appear first in the Ordovician. Many other soft-bodied phyla do not appear in the fossil record until much later. Although many new animal forms appeared during the Cambrian, not all did. According to one reference (Collins 1994), eleven of thirty-two metazoan phyla appear during the Cambrian, one appears Precambrian, eight after the Cambrian, and twelve have no fossil record.

And that just considers phyla. Almost none of the animal groups that people think of as groups, such as mammals, reptiles, birds, insects, and spiders, appeared in the Cambrian. The fish that appeared in the Cambrian was unlike any fish alive today.

4. The length of the Cambrian explosion is ambiguous and uncertain, but five to ten million years is a reasonable estimate; some say the explosion spans forty million years or more, starting about 553 million years ago. Even the shortest estimate of five million years is hardly sudden.

continued...
Gillette

Packwood, IA

#1290 Mar 17, 2013
CAMBRIAN CONTINUED...

5. There are some plausible explanations for why diversification may have been relatively sudden:

• The evolution of active predators in the late Precambrian likely spurred the coevolution of hard parts on other animals. These hard parts fossilize much more easily than the previous soft-bodied animals, leading to many more fossils but not necessarily more animals.

• Early complex animals may have been nearly microscopic. Apparent fossil animals smaller than 0.2 mm have been found in the Doushantuo Formation, China, forty to fifty-five million years before the Cambrian (Chen et al. 2004). Much of the early evolution could have simply been too small to see.

The earth was just coming out of a global ice age at the beginning of the Cambrian (Hoffman 1998; Kerr 2000). A "snowball earth" before the Cambrian explosion may have hindered development of complexity or kept populations down so that fossils would be too rare to expect to find today. The more favorable environment after the snowball earth would have opened new niches for life to evolve into.

• Hox genes, which control much of an animal's basic body plan, were likely first evolving around that time. Development of these genes might have just then allowed the raw materials for body plans to diversify (Carroll 1997).

• Atmospheric oxygen may have increased at the start of the Cambrian (Canfield and Teske 1996; Logan et al. 1995; Thomas 1997).

• Planktonic grazers began producing fecal pellets that fell to the bottom of the ocean rapidly, profoundly changing the ocean state, especially its oxygenation (Logan et al. 1995).

• Unusual amounts of phosphate were deposited in shallow seas at the start of the Cambrian (Cook and Shergold 1986; Lipps and Signor 1992).

6. Cambrian life was still unlike almost everything alive today. Although several phyla appear to have diverged in the Early Cambrian or before, most of the phylum-level body plans appear in the fossil record much later (Budd and Jensen 2000). Using number of cell types as a measure of complexity, we see that complexity has been increasing more or less constantly since the beginning of the Cambrian (Valentine et al. 1994).

7. Major radiations of life forms have occurred at other times, too. One of the most extensive diversifications of life occurred in the Ordovician, for example (Miller 1997).

Further Reading:
Conway Morris, Simon. 1998. The Crucible of Creation. Oxford.
Conway Morris, Simon. 2000. The Cambrian "explosion": Slow-fuse or megatonnage? Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA 97(9): 4426-4429.(technical)
Schopf, J. William. 2000. Solution to Darwin's dilemma: Discovery of the missing Precambrian record of life. Proceedings of the National Academy of Science USA 97(13): 6947-6953. http://www.pnas.org/cgi/content/full/97/13/69...

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1291 Mar 17, 2013
pass on their genes .. an agenda

the animal must east more food .. the plan

to survive and in hard times .. a recognition of environment

Smallness may be selected .. oops!! you tripped again

before they mate ... desire ??.. oh yes, the desire

now .. apply all of this to a bag of "natural" dead hammers

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1293 Mar 17, 2013
And H-t has dipped into the sacramental wine again.

Poor drug addled fool.

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