A Trojan Horse for Creationism

Mar 8, 2013 Read more: Truthdig 1,536

I watched in shock the summer before my sophomore year of high school as my home state, Louisiana, passed a law that opened the door for the teaching of creationism.

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The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1024 Mar 15, 2013
His-truth wrote:
DNA language not the same as DNA molecule
Recent studies in information theory have come up with some astounding conclusions .. namely .. that information cannot be considered in the same category as matter and energy ... It's true that matter or energy can carry information .. but they are not the same as information itself ... For instance .. a book such as Homer's Iliad contains information .. but is the physical book itself information ?.. No .. the materials of the book .. the paper .. ink and glue contain the contents .. but they are only a means of transporting it ... If the information in the book was spoken aloud .. written in chalk or electronically reproduced in a computer .. the information does not suffer qualitatively from the means of transporting it .. "In fact the content of the message" .. says professor Phillip Johnson .. "is independent of the physical makeup of the medium" ( Defeating Darwinism by Opening Minds , 1997, p. 71)... The same principle is found in the genetic code ... The DNA molecule carries the genetic language .. but the language itself is independent of its carrier .. The same genetic information can be written in a book .. stored in a compact disk or sent over the Internet .. and yet the quality or content of the message has not changed by changing the means of conveying it ... As George Williams puts it:.. The gene is a package of information .. not an object ... The pattern of base pairs in a DNA molecule specifies the gene .. But the DNA molecule is the medium .. it's not the message" (quoted by Johnson, p. 70)
Excellent! So what's this "code" you speak of and what was the mechanism responsible for it? What's the "scientific theory" of IDC?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1025 Mar 15, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
hey idiot ... I'm not attempting to prove a designer .. but intelligent design .... of course not to you woodtick ... ignorance can be fixed .. but stupid is forever
Stupid isn't forever. You will eventually succumb to thermodynamic processes.

You've done a great job at demonstrating intelligent design because every time I ask you about it you always point me to houses and computers and stuff.

Every

Single

Time.

However you claim there's a different one that is actually responsible for life on Earth, and perhaps even the universe itself. You haven't been able to provide evidence of that though so far.

What's the "scientific theory" of IDC?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1026 Mar 15, 2013
His-truth wrote:
DNA (God's Signature) Stores Data More Efficiently than Anything We've Created
A fasincating story at ExtremeTech.com , "Harvard cracks DNA storage, crams 700 terabytes of data into a single gram," reports that Harvard scientists have broken the record for the data storage density in DNA. This method, apparently, could store all of Google's daily information in less than 5 grams of DNA.
Continue ... http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/134672-har...
all by mindless accident of-course ... Ha !! and yall claim "WE" believe in fairy tails
Your link did not go to any article.

You are making an assumption without any evidence when you call DNA "God's signature".

Yes, a lot of information can be stored in DNA. Of course a lot of that determines on how "information" is defined.

And you are again using a strawman argument at the end of your post when you try to say we believe DNA to be the product of a "mindless accident". We don't.

If you want to effectively debate against a subject you need to understand the subject. Otherwise you will make foolish mistakes.

I gave an example to that a few days ago, that is of a foolish mistake someone arguing against Christianity could make and all it did was to enrage the creatards since it struck a bit too close to home.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1027 Mar 15, 2013
His-truth wrote:
no intelligence here folks
You got that right. That's why you're incapable of discussing the subject and spamming stuff you don't even understand anyway. Otherwise we'd have a theory of ID by now.

What's the "scientific theory" of IDC?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1028 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, Islam has exactly the same position. Of course, we don't see similar attacks on Muslims from the Left .
We've had fundie Muslims on these threads. They get exactly the same treatment.

The reason?

Their position is EXACTLY the same as yours.

“the end-times is now”

Level 2

Since: Feb 13

Location hidden

#1029 Mar 15, 2013
I don't think you people would know intelligence if you see it ... I'll leave you with that problem .....

Information from an intelligent source
In addition, this type of high-level information has been found to originate only from an intelligent source.

As Lee Strobel explains: "The data at the core of life is not disorganized, it's not simply orderly like salt crystals, but it's complex and specific information that can accomplish a bewildering task—the building of biological machines that far outstrip human technological capabilities" (p. 244).

For instance, the precision of this genetic language is such that the average mistake that is not caught turns out to be one error per 10 billion letters. If a mistake occurs in one of the most significant parts of the code, which is in the genes, it can cause a disease such as sickle-cell anemia. Yet even the best and most intelligent typist in the world couldn't come close to making only one mistake per 10 billion letters—far from it.

So to believe that the genetic code gradually evolved in Darwinian style would break all the known rules of how matter, energy and the laws of nature work. In fact, there has not been found in nature any example of one information system inside the cell gradually evolving into another functional information program.

Michael Behe, a biochemist and professor at Pennsylvania's Lehigh University, explains that genetic information is primarily an instruction manual and gives some examples.

He writes: "Consider a step-by-step list of [genetic] instructions. A mutation is a change in one of the lines of instructions. So instead of saying, "Take a 1/4-inch nut," a mutation might say, "Take a 3/8-inch nut." Or instead of "Place the round peg in the round hole," we might get "Place the round peg in the square hole" ... What a mutation cannot do is change all the instructions in one step—say,[providing instructions] to build a fax machine instead of a radio" ( Darwin's Black Box , 1996, p. 41).

We therefore have in the genetic code an immensely complex instruction manual that has been majestically designed by a more intelligent source than human beings.

Even one of the discoverers of the genetic code, the agnostic and recently deceased Francis Crick, after decades of work on deciphering it, admitted that "an honest man, armed with all the knowledge available to us now, could only state that in some sense, the origin of life appears at the moment to be almost a miracle, so many are the conditions which would have had to have been satisfied to get it going" ( Life Itself , 1981, p. 88, emphasis added).

...... gotta love it

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1030 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Illegaly?
as per the constitution. perhaps you've heard of that document?

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1031 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The governent's ex parte support for the teaching of evolution could be construed as formation of a national religion.
No, it could not. Evolution is not a religion, even though creatards will try to claim that. It is science. It is based upon the scientific method which has nothing to do with religion.

Science is religion neutral. It does not try to attack any gods and it does not try to defend any gods. Science is just the observation of nature and applying a philosophy to better understand the nature of the universe. It uses a tool called the scientific method.

Now if your religion believes that the Earth is flat you might claim that science is attacking your religion by giving evidence that the Earth is a sphere. Or if your religion states that the Earth does not move and everything revolves around it again you might claim that science is attacking God when it gives evidence that this is not the case ( and we know that happened). In the same way evolution does not attack religion.

Your religion may not be able to deal with evolution. That is not science's fault. Science is neutral when it comes to God. It does not disprove God. It may disprove some of your personal beliefs. That cannot be helped if science is correct.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#1032 Mar 15, 2013
His-truth wrote:
<quoted text>
It's ALLLL about Homosexuality / same-sex mArRiAgE / Government sponsored abortion and birth-control
You are right, people who are against homosexualtiy, and other immorality(christians) draw the ire of ones who want to be gay and live like a libertine.Truth(God's word) to them is like sunlight to a vampire.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1033 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm just guessing here, but Fundamentalist Christians probably think the same about their children being force-fed something they believe is false.
The problem is that evolution is taught as indisputable fact, and not an unproven (and probably unprovable) theory.
Guess what? ALL fields of science are unprovable. Proof is only for math and alcohol. The reason for this is potential falsifiability is ESSENTIAL for any scientific to be considered scientific. This is what separates science from religious dogma.

Also if you reject reality you are FREE to do so. Want your kids to be stupid and reject evolution? Fine. Have a word with your school headmaster and tell them your kid wants to be taken out of science class and fail it. Or you can homeschool them. Or send them to a private fundamentalist religious school where they teach ignorance is a virtue. Or your kid can take science, lie like hell and put all the correct answers they've been taught in science then still decide not to believe it.

But there are NO mean old evolutionist scientists knocking down the doors of your Sunday School and demanding BY LAW that science must be taught in your church.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#1034 Mar 15, 2013
His-truth wrote:
DNA (God's Signature) Stores Data More Efficiently than Anything We've Created
Right.

So what you're saying it's NOTHING like human designs therefore it must be designed. Brilliant!

What's the "scientific theory" of IDC?
Elohim

Branford, CT

#1035 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
The governent's ex parte support for the teaching of evolution could be construed as formation of a national religion.
Only by members of certain cults who are against the teaching of anything that isn't in their version of a bronze age fairy tale book.

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1036 Mar 15, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You are right, people who are against homosexualtiy, and other immorality(christians) draw the ire of ones who want to be gay and live like a libertine.Truth(God's word) to them is like sunlight to a vampire.
how is homosexuality, a natural part of our species, immoral?

two people loving each other is immoral? since when?

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#1037 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Funny, Islam has exactly the same position. Of course, we don't see similar attacks on Muslims from the Left .
Ummm... could that be because it's the fundie Christians and not the fundie Muslims pushing their brand of idocy here, maybe?
Say the Truth

Lansdale, PA

#1038 Mar 15, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
We've had fundie Muslims on these threads. They get exactly the same treatment.
The reason?
Their position is EXACTLY the same as yours.
What's "my" position, Dud?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1039 Mar 15, 2013
Elohim wrote:
<quoted text>Only by members of certain cults who are against the teaching of anything that isn't in their version of a bronze age fairy tale book.
yeah, most sadne people would call it 'science'. something we are lagging behind in in this nation, due in great part to the albatross of religion that is hanging like an anchor around our necks...

we need an enlightenment in this nation...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1040 Mar 15, 2013
woodtick57 wrote:
<quoted text>how is homosexuality, a natural part of our species, immoral?
two people loving each other is immoral? since when?
I don't know.

Maybe because it is icky?

Since: Mar 11

St. Croix valley

#1041 Mar 15, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't know.
Maybe because it is icky?
some people seem to think so. others...not so much.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1042 Mar 15, 2013
Forgive me for the "sin" I am about to do.

I must spam the board with evidence of the existence of my god:

http://www.fermentarium.com/random-news/giant...

“Happiness comes through giving”

Level 7

Since: Feb 08

Location hidden

#1043 Mar 15, 2013
Say the Truth wrote:
<quoted text>
Thou clay-brained guts, thou knotty-pated fool, thou whoreson obscene greasy tallow-catch!
Thy momma weareth boxer shorts.

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