A Trojan Horse for Creationism

A Trojan Horse for Creationism

There are 1536 comments on the Truthdig story from Mar 8, 2013, titled A Trojan Horse for Creationism. In it, Truthdig reports that:

I watched in shock the summer before my sophomore year of high school as my home state, Louisiana, passed a law that opened the door for the teaching of creationism.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

“I Am No One Else”

Level 7

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#186 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>YOu are judging by saying I am judging. I was stating what God's word says, it was not "me" saying what it is you disagree with.
That's like saying blue cannot be blue because it says it is.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#187 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
To those who laugh at God and his word. Proverbs 1:7 states The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge. But fools despise wisdom and instruction. If believing in and following God's word makes me a fool...then I am MR FOOL to you .
I don't laugh at God. God is greater than you can possibly imagine. I often laugh at the fundie portrayal of God though, which is of course something QUITE different.

Not that the fundies understand this.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#188 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually the Bible was disproven centuries before you were born. You are merely unaware of the scholarship undertaken in the 16th and 17th centuries. It turns out the Bible gets some bits right, some bits wrong, and the rest is not verifiable. Especially the magic bits.
However the ultimate premise that Goddidit with magic is non-falsifiable. If it's non-falsifiable it is not scientific.
<quoted text>
Actually I'm not aware of anyone who can do that.(shrug)
That is WHY I've been asking for the "scientific theory" of creationism for such a long time now.
<quoted text>
It sure does. But if theories still match with reality we keep the theory, unless a better one is put forth.
Which is what I'm still waiting for.
<quoted text>
Aside from it all being unsupported by evidence, I stopped at talking lizard. That is wrong. Lizards don't talk. Your book has been falsified in the first chapter.
Unless of course you use invisible Godmagic to fix any and all problems, in which case it's non-falsifiable. In which case it's not scientific.
It may be worth pointing out that many Christians may think you're making a mistake by taking the Biblical literally rather than accepting it as an allegory or parable from which to derive religious meaning. That is however your choice. But unfortunately for you that does mean you will ultimately end up at odds with reality.
<quoted text>
Then you obviously have no idea what "theory" means in a scientific context. In every day conversation it means wild guess. In science it means a collection of facts and testable hypotheses which are grouped together to form a coherent scientific model capable of making successful scientific predictions. That's what evolution has. That's what creationism does not have. Some here have claimed otherwise. I am therefore attempting to ascertain the nature of this "scientific model" of creationism, but with no success. And through no fault of my own I might add.
<quoted text>
Romans 1:20 refers to "invisible things clearly seen." Clearly a contradiction in terms. Can you tell us how this works in a coherent rational scientific manner?
If not then I say the Flying Spaghetti Monster is just as valid.
You try to disprove Rom 1:20. Take for example the wind, you cannot see the wind per se but you can hear it and see the workings of it.That should clear up the rest of any doubt you may have which was written in scripture.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#189 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>YOu are judging by saying I am judging.
I disagree. But then even if you are correct remember that I do not share your theology and therefore do not have to abide by it.

The Dude abides.

But not with fundamentalism.
Patriot wrote:
I was stating what God's word says, it was not "me" saying what it is you disagree with.
No, you were stating what the Bible says. Which we have already established is inaccurate. The Bible was written by MEN. Ancient, flawed, fallible, superstitious men, who knew little of the world and didn't even know the shape of it. Plus had a vested interest in controlling the masses.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#190 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
You may be right.
You may also be wrong.
You have approximately a 1 in 10,000 chance of being right. And that is assuming that at least one man-made religion is correct.
But all the Bible quotes in the world does not change the fact that you are unable to demonstrate your baseless religious opinions.
And the Earth still isn't a flat square circle.
Christ's founding of HIS church was not a man made thing. It was "predestined" to happen BEFORE CREATION BEGAN.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#191 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't laugh at God. God is greater than you can possibly imagine. I often laugh at the fundie portrayal of God though, which is of course something QUITE different.
Not that the fundies understand this.
I am not a fundie, the fundies are ones who spout out scripture they have little if any understanding of.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#192 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>You try to disprove Rom 1:20.
As I already stated in the response you quoted I do not have to. It is up to you to demonstrate it.
Patriot wrote:
Take for example the wind, you cannot see the wind per se but you can hear it and see the workings of it.
Yes, but we have objectively verifiable evidence of the wind.

Notice that when I ask for direct evidence you guys only ever provide analogies. I ask for the workings of God and you give me wind. I ask HT for ID, he gives me Windows 7.
Patriot wrote:
That should clear up the rest of any doubt you may have which was written in scripture.
Unfortunately not. Scripture is unreliable.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#193 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Christ's founding of HIS church was not a man made thing. It was "predestined" to happen BEFORE CREATION BEGAN.
Maybe, maybe not.

You're preaching. I'm not interested in preaching, only in what you can demonstrate.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#194 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>For the sake of argument say suppose one day what you call my superstitions turn out to be reality and you are not prepared to meet God?
For the sake of the same argument, suppose the MUSLIMS are correct and ALlah is Lord and you Christians are judged as shameless infidels fit only to be tortured forever in Allah's hell?

Ready to change your beliefs to Islam, JUST IN CASE?

If not, then you know how WE feel when you make the same CRACKPOT ARGUMENT to us about believing in your fundie Christianity.

Since: Aug 12

Buffalo, NY

#195 Mar 11, 2013
His-truth wrote:
Have I mentioned God yet ????.. Y/N
Intelligent design says life is so complex and beyond mans understanding, that the very complexity is proof of a designer or a god. Or is this being put forth to advance a non deity designer?
Discussed in science class a thousand years ago today. was the topic of infection. The teacher couldn't explain infection thus proving gods existence.
You say. Ask Not the teacher...they aren't the smartest people around.
Being sarcastic I reply. "For gods sake let's not ask a scientist...They don't know squat about science."

If some day man was to be able to answer to the complexities of life on Earth would god cease.
The two science and religion are being fraudulently connected here.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#196 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>I am not a fundie, the fundies are ones who spout out scripture they have little if any understanding of.
Virtually everything you have pushed at us today in the form of Christian dogma is a part of the worldview of a certain type of Protestant, conservative, perhaps "non-denom", born-again religion known as "fundamentalist Christianity."

You are certainly and absolutely a "fundie."

Why deny it?

Next you'll drag out the hoary old nonsense about "not having a religion, but a relationship," right?
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#197 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>I am not a fundie, the fundies are ones who spout out scripture they have little if any understanding of.
And why is your understanding better than anyone else's? Do you know more about the Bible than anyone else? Do you have access to special information that no-one else does? Are you the world's greatest Biblical scholar? Does God love you best? Are you His personally appointed mouth-piece? Did God give you a personal visitation to your room and give you a happy? Are you always correct while the Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, SDA, whatever, always wrong?

No. Your baseless religious opinions are nothing more than just that. Your opinions. They are no better than mine, his, hers, the guy who delivers my pizza or the next-door neighbour's cat. And you don't know anything more about God than anyone else does. Period.

(with apologies to Lenny)
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#198 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
As I already stated in the response you quoted I do not have to. It is up to you to demonstrate it.
<quoted text>
Yes, but we have objectively verifiable evidence of the wind.
Notice that when I ask for direct evidence you guys only ever provide analogies. I ask for the workings of God and you give me wind. I ask HT for ID, he gives me Windows 7.
<quoted text>
Unfortunately not. Scripture is unreliable.
well, I am not a scientist but put it this way one being in the desert can see tracks in the sand and know it is the tracks of a camel,etc but look up in the sky and see the sun and see that it is NOT the tracks of man. Shutting down for the day, have a good evening, I think you blokes in England are about 7 hours past time here in the south east.Take care.It is really pretty over there in England.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#199 Mar 11, 2013
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
For the sake of the same argument, suppose the MUSLIMS are correct and ALlah is Lord and you Christians are judged as shameless infidels fit only to be tortured forever in Allah's hell?
Ready to change your beliefs to Islam, JUST IN CASE?
If not, then you know how WE feel when you make the same CRACKPOT ARGUMENT to us about believing in your fundie Christianity.
Through Christ is THE ONLY WAY to the Father. Case Closed.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#200 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Scientist have never been able to disprove the bible, they can only come up with a THEORY or THEORIES concerning creation. Well REALITY trumps THEORY.
Scientific theories ARE reality, as understood but lots and lots of scientists with loads of evidence to back them up.

Learn how science works. Every time you open your mouth about science, you embarrass yourself.
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Reality can be accessed by Reading Genesis 1:1
Religious myths are not considered "reality" by intelligent, educated thoughtful people. They were the opinions and rudimentary explanations for reality put forward by ignorant Bronze Age men.
Patriot

Nashville, TN

#201 Mar 11, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Maybe, maybe not.
You're preaching. I'm not interested in preaching, only in what you can demonstrate.
I need not demonstrate a thing, GOD has demonstrated his power by creating the world and universe and everything in them.Seems like an open and shut case.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#202 Mar 11, 2013
CBOW wrote:
<quoted text>
Not mine, yours. I was looking forward to a stimulating conversation, but if your typing skills match your wittiness, we have a problem.
You actually entered this thread with sarcasm and put downs. There is no indication up until now that you are interested in "a stimulating conversation."

If you really ARE perhaps one can be found.
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#203 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>well, I am not a scientist but put it this way one being in the desert can see tracks in the sand and know it is the tracks of a camel,etc but look up in the sky and see the sun and see that it is NOT the tracks of man.
Correct. Does that make it God? The FSM? Or natural phenomena?
Patriot wrote:
Shutting down for the day, have a good evening, I think you blokes in England are about 7 hours past time here in the south east.Take care.It is really pretty over there in England.
In some places.

:-)
Elohim

Branford, CT

#204 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Good luck then!
Thanks!
The Dude

Macclesfield, UK

#205 Mar 11, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Through Christ is THE ONLY WAY to the Father. Case Closed.
Talking lizard.

And Zeus will be might pished at you.

Case open.

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