imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#1546 Aug 2, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you have a problem with a very small slice of Islam, and no problem with the rest of Islam. Right?
Or do you have a double standard about other religions?
My question was why do you think Protestants (Protest-ants) left Catholicism?

Islam can't split up or they will be killed by each other. Their family members must, at least 'pretend', to worship, or the neighbors will attack the father if he doesn't punish whoever doesn't worship their precious mohammed & allah. Most of them worship out of fear of being killed.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#1547 Aug 2, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are just a few scriptures of hatred and murder that is preached, allowed and commanded in the Quran. It is the opposite of the Holy Bible.
You are kidding right? I can cite you literally twenty verses that are pro-murder, pro-genocide, pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-child abuse., etc.

Anyone who claims the Holy Bible isn't full of violence has never read the Bible.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#1548 Aug 2, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
My question was why do you think Protestants (Protest-ants) left Catholicism?
The Protestants were the slave traders, they formed the KKK, they are just as violent and vile as the Catholics or the Muslims.
imagine2011

Southaven, MS

#1549 Aug 3, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
You are kidding right? I can cite you literally twenty verses that are pro-murder, pro-genocide, pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-child abuse., etc.
Anyone who claims the Holy Bible isn't full of violence has never read the Bible.
Where are these 20 verses that are pro-murder, pro-genocide, pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-child abuse etc...? You are obviously mis-interpreting these verses.

Do you know where muhammed got many of his twisted scriptures? He copied PART of the Torah, OT and NT and twisted it all around to fit his perverted, murderous lifestyle. He did this 700 years after the Bible was already written and Christianity had spread around the world.

He is a false prophet, plain and simple.

Catholics twisted scripture too, so much so, they had to write their own bible, which does not coincide with ancient Holy Bible scripture. Their 10 commandments are even different than ours. Remember, the Roman leaders were in power when Christ was crucified and afterward when Christians were being persecuted for their new faith by the Romans. They killed anyone who read scripture, was caught with scripture or tried to write scripture in other languages for people to learn. The only people they allowed to read scripture was their "appointed priests". Now, they have the Vatican,(being its own sovereign nation), with its own leader (king, president), the pope and still teaching some of the same lies as before. This pope has more political power than most leaders of all other nations combined...think about it.

Catholics completely removed the 2nd commandment : 2. You shall not make unto you any graven images (you know how they love to pray to the man made statues) They took #10 and divided in two for their #9 & #10.

The Ten Commandments as handed down by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai were the beginning of the nation of Israel, when they were leaving Egypt as slaves, for freedom in the promised land. They were considered to be the Law of God for his chosen people. There are, however, some major differences in interpretation. There is a difference in what the Catholic Church uses as the Ten Commandments and what the protestant churches use.

*****In the Catholic Church they are as follows:

1. I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
***2. You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
3. Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
4. Honor your father and your mother
5. You shall not kill
6. You shall not commit adultery
7. You shall not steal
8. You shall not bear false witness
***9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
***10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods

*****In the Protestant Churches, they are as follows, with the differences highlighted:

1. You shall have no other gods but me.
*****2. You shall not make unto you any graven images
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
4. You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
5. Honor your mother and father
6. You shall not murder
7. You shall not commit adultery
8. You shall not steal
****9. You shall not bear false witness
****10. You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor

The differences are that the protestant churches forbid any graven images, the word “kill” is replaced by the word “murder”, and they lump all covetous things together, while the Catholic Church specifically adds the prohibition of coveting your neighbor’s wife. Why the differences? The 10 Commandments come to us from Exodus 20:2-17.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#1550 Aug 3, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are these 20 verses that are pro-murder, pro-genocide, pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-child abuse etc...? You are obviously mis-interpreting these verses.
I'll deal with this in another post.
Do you know where muhammed got many of his twisted scriptures? He copied PART of the Torah, OT and NT and twisted it all around to fit his perverted, murderous lifestyle.
You know where the Christians got theirs? They copied them from earlier works as well.

There's no point that Jesus makes that wasn't first made by Buddha.

The miracles of Jesus include the resurrection of Lazarus.
The miracles of Horus predate Jesus by hundreds of years and include the resurrection of Al Azarus.

All religions crib from earlier religions because they are trying to convert those worshipers to join and need to keep it somewhat familiar.
Catholics twisted scripture too, so much so, they had to write their own bible, which does not coincide with ancient Holy Bible scripture. Their 10 commandments are even different than ours.
You do realize that you Bible an altered version of theirs, right? They had it first by more than 1,000 years.

Luther didn't go back to the source material. He translated from Latin to German.
Remember, the Roman leaders were in power when Christ was crucified ...Now, they have the Vatican...think about it.
This is so muddled, I don't know where to start.
Catholics completely removed the 2nd commandment : 2. You shall not make unto you any graven images (you know how they love to pray to the man made statues) They took #10 and divided in two for their #9 & #10.
Protestants have changed the commandments from the original Hebrew.
The Hebrews changed the commandments from their original form in the Egyptian Book of the Dead.
The Book of the Dead probably got their commandments from some even earlier religion.
The Ten Commandments as handed down by God to Moses on Mt. Sinai were the beginning of the nation of Israel
Actually, he handed for MORE than ten commandments. Even today the Jews have 11 Commandments, not 10.
when they were leaving Egypt as slaves, for freedom in the promised land.
The Jews were never slaves in Egypt. AND, the story of Exodus contradicts itself in a number of VERY troubling ways.
Why the differences? The 10 Commandments come to us from Exodus 20:2-17.
The original material has been translated in and out of a dozen languages between ancient Hebrew or Aramaic into modern English. These include Greek, Latin, German and Old English.

There are _MANY_ terms which do not translate well between versions and thus result in changes.

A glance at an Orthodox Jewish Torah's version of Exodus shows you that your Commandments from the KJV are worded VERY differently than theirs.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Valley Village, CA

#1551 Aug 3, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are these 20 verses that are pro-murder, pro-genocide, pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-child abuse etc...? You are obviously mis-interpreting these verses.
10 Verses that are Pro-Rape:
Judges 21:10-24
Numbers 31:7-18
Deuteronomy 20:10-14
Deuteronomy 22:28-29
Deuteronomy 22:23-24
2 Samuel 12:11-14
Deuteronomy 21:10-14
Judges 5:30
Exodus 21:7-11
Zechariah 14:1-2

7 Verses that are Pro-Slavery (some duplication with the above list)
Leviticus 25:44-46
Exodus 21:2-6
Exodus 21:7-11
Exodus 21:20-21
Ephesians 6:5
1 Timothy 6:1-2
Luke 12:47-48

22 Verses that are Pro-Murder (to be fair, many of these are "punishments for a crime", however when the punishment is death and the crime is "not listening to" someone. That's murder)
Deuteronomy 17:12
Exodus 22:17
Leviticus 20:13
Leviticus 20:27
Exodus 21:15
Proverbs 20:20
Leviticus 20:9
Leviticus 20:10
Leviticus 21:9
Exodus 22:19
2 Chronicles 15:12-13
Zechariah 13:3
Deuteronomy 13:13-19
Deuteronomy 22:20-21
Deuteronomy 13:7-12
Deuteronomy 17:2-5
(Leviticus 24:10-16
Deuteronomy 13:1-5
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
Romans 1:24-32
Numbers 1:48-51
Exodus 31:12-15

Just a partial list. Gave you a few extras because, you'll likely disagree with a couple of them.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#1552 Aug 3, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
The differences are that the protestant churches forbid any graven images, the word “kill” is replaced by the word “murder”, and they lump all covetous things together, while the Catholic Church specifically adds the prohibition of coveting your neighbor’s wife. Why the differences? The 10 Commandments come to us from Exodus 20:2-17.

No.

They come from Exodus 20:2-17 AND Deuteronomy 5:4-21

The versions differ. Worse there are a plethora of translations that also differ.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Commandment...

“The strength of science is”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#1553 Aug 3, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
My question was why do you think Protestants (Protest-ants) left Catholicism?
Islam can't split up or they will be killed by each other. Their family members must, at least 'pretend', to worship, or the neighbors will attack the father if he doesn't punish whoever doesn't worship their precious mohammed & allah. Most of them worship out of fear of being killed.
Ever heard of Suni and Shiite. Different sects that split off after the death of the prophet. There are others that are smaller.

Most of the muslims I know worship because it is their belief to. I don't have the ability to know what reasons others may have, but I very much doubt most worship out of fear. That is just your prejudice talking.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1554 Aug 4, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Here are more verses from the Quran that allow the murder of Jews and Christians.
Hadith:
Bukhari (52:177)- Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."
Sura:
[5.33] The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His apostle and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement,
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Quran (8:12)- "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them" (No reasonable person would interpret this to mean a spiritual struggle.)
[2.135] And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay!(we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the Hanif, and he was not one of the polytheists.
[4.160] Wherefore for the iniquity of those who are Jews did We disallow to them the good things which had been made lawful for them and for their hindering many (people) from Allah's way.
Remember that the Quran does not believe Jesus is the Son of God and the Jews haven't accepted His first coming, so that's not their reason for hating Jews.
I am aware of all that. I don't like it either. but still its not the full picture. Jews and Christians who do not make war against Islam are to be treated with respect as "People of the Book" who are understood to worship the same God and have the same prophets (Adam, Moses, Abraham, Jesus etc) as the Muslims.

They are to be tolerated as second class citizens and free to worship as long as they do not make trouble, and they have to pay a special tax. The real Unbelievers to Muslims are the pagans or kafirs, those who believe in many Gods etc, and Islam is brutal to them (Just as Christianity has been too). On the other hand there have always been Christians and Jewish minorities in Islamic states, and they have the protection of the Law. I even visited the Christian Quarter in Tehran myself.

Contrast this with Christian policy towards Muslims and Jews for centuries, this total intolerance only weakening with the Enlightenment when Christian control of Europe was declining anyway.

So I am not saying you are entirely wrong, but your view is skewed towards an extremism that is not the whole story either in the Quran or according to Islamic Law. Jews and Christians can even go to heaven by their Law, unlike what the Christians preach.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#1555 Aug 4, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
If Islamist, who follow the Quran, are really worshipping the same God as the Holy Bible, then why are they set on killing Jews and Christians who do follow the Holy Bible?
Its always "they they they".

Why are WE set on flying drones over muslims to kill them, long after we have extracted a death toll on their side that far exceeds the lives lost in their terrorist bombings?

Why are we set on being completely one-sided on the question of Israel, when we were so against similar policies in South Africa?

They see them killing us as part of a war where we attacked them, colonised them, toppled half their governments and bribed the others, seek to impose our way of life on them, and despise their cherished religion.

I am not saying we did not have our reasons or that all the charges are fair. But its insane on both sides. When each side merely points out what the OTHER has done and never acknowledges what IT has done, or keeps making excuses, then there is no solution.

Just for one minute try to see this conflict from the point of view of a Muslim. Without all your blinders. Just see it from the perspective of another person who is just like YOU in most ways.

This time, I will defer to the wisdom of Jesus, which seems to have been forgotten by most Christians. Remove the plank from your own eye first.

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1556 Aug 4, 2013
Nuggin wrote:
<quoted text>
The Protestants were the slave traders, they formed the KKK, they are just as violent and vile as the Catholics or the Muslims.
Well, the far, far right-wing, cult-minded Protestants were involved with these misdeeds, but the balanced, right-minded Protestants helped create great, industrialized countries such as England, Germany, Sweden, Australia, New Zealand, America and Canada. These countries have created one of the best forms of law, politics and work ethics (the Protestant Work Ethic).

In regards to the initial topic of this thread, evolution cannot be a lie, as the obvious proof of the world has been evolving since its existance. Plants, animals and humans have been evolving - and still is evolving at this present time.

Many gagos who are indoctrinated by religious fabrications and deception, of course they are going to say that evolution is a lie. Religion has been/is a tool to control and manipulate masses. But now, certain Christian sects are starting to realize that the masses are now more informed about science and evolution, so they are now starting to incorparate these studies in their church organizations.

Level 5

Since: Jan 12

Location hidden

#1557 Aug 4, 2013
Sorry for the double-post.

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#1558 Aug 4, 2013
AussiPino wrote:
Sorry for the double-post.
No need to apologize. This site both creates, and then eventually eliminates double posts. Sometimes this is a bad thing. I have seen people unwittingly repeat a prior post word for word, this obviously works only with very short posts, only to have the system realize that it is "duplicate" and erase it.

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1559 Aug 5, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
Where are these 20 verses that are pro-murder, pro-genocide, pro-rape, pro-slavery, pro-child abuse etc...? You are obviously mis-interpreting these verses.
….
Here are a few so first off its is written that your god killed the entire human population of earth except for one guy who was what, 900 years old and his close family. Genesis 6:11-17, 7:11-24 sort out the genocide aspect. Or are you going to say it never happened? Or are you going to say it’s fine because your god did it?

Numbers 24:4 (KJV) cites your god giving instructions to moses to kill by beheading. This appears to be something you are up in arms about the Qur’an, yet you willingly accept it in the babble.

Numbers 31:17-18 (KJV) shows you god telling to kill (murder) men and women who have known man (I ask myself how did they find out) and to keep all the virgins as slaves,(for what reason?)

Deuteronomy 3:6 (KJV) teaches that it’s ok to “utterly destroy” kings, men women and children

Deuteronomy 20:13-14 (KJV) teaches the murder of vanquished men and keep the women, children, cattle and spoils of the vanquished city, thus promoting slavery and theft.

Joshua 6:21-27 (KJV) You god approves the murder of murder of men women and children

2 Kings 2:23-24 (KJV) The bible teaches that it’s ok to abuse and injure chiildren


Ezekiel 9:6 (KJV) Your lord says “Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women…”

Israel is (was) not a nation, it is a religion, the nationhood if Ideal has only been around for 60 odd years

Note that the 10 commandments appear twice in the Tanakh and are different from both the Catholic and Protestant versions

Edited extract from http://www.jewfaq.org/10.htm
Judaism, Catholicism and Protestantism divide up the commandments in different ways. Judaism, unlike Catholicism and Protestantism, considers "I am the Lord, your God" to be the first "commandment." Catholicism, unlike Judaism and Protestantism, considers coveting property to be separate from coveting a spouse. Protestantism, unlike Judaism and Catholicism, considers the prohibition against idolatry to be separate from the prohibition against worshipping other gods. No two religions agree on a single list.

Also note that the differences between catholic and protestant versions arouse in the commandments between the early 1500s (Henry VIII) and early 1600s (King James). Before this time there was no protestant version of the faith. This therefore means that the catholic version (which dates back to the 3rd century) has a better history and providence than the protestant version. Also note that the KJV was written (by committee) because there were so many differing version that King James wanted to rationalise the scriptures. He had no aim of what the scriptures consider Truth (note the capital T) but of what best fitted the weighted average of the existing versions. Since then there are now over 200 different English language versions, each slightly different (and who known how many in other languages) giving rise to over 40,000 different sects of christianity, each believing there interpretation of their preferred version of the babble is the correct interpretation.

You really do not know much about what you claim to worship do you?

“I started out with nothing”

Level 6

Since: Nov 10

and still got most of it left

#1560 Aug 5, 2013
imagine2011 wrote:
<quoted text>
My question was why do you think Protestants (Protest-ants) left Catholicism?
Islam can't split up or they will be killed by each other. Their family members must, at least 'pretend', to worship, or the neighbors will attack the father if he doesn't punish whoever doesn't worship their precious mohammed & allah. Most of them worship out of fear of being killed.
Because Henry VIII wanted to loose a wife so he could screw a different woman. There your question is answered.

Islam is split you moron, but not in to as many factions/cults as christianity however just as with christians those splits often lead to friction. You are minimising (or more probably deliberately ignoring) the culture of location, the middle east is not the pristine streets of babble belt USA and laws not so clearly defined. However Moslems tend to be more passionate about their belief than christians (back to culture and location). This could be because (like the US is a young country) Islam is a young religion.

What a load of funnymentalist and ignorant bollocks, Moslems follow their faith for exactly the same reason that you follow yours, because they are indoctrinated from early childhood.

Both Judaism and Islam believe jesus was a prophet. Muslims believe that jesus was the Messiah and a messenger of God

The Muslim god (Allah) is the christian god (no name) is the jewish god (YHVA/Elohim etc). That is the god of abraham, just because you are too deliberately ignorant to comprehend this is your problem and no one else’s.
Mitch

Prior Lake, MN

#1562 Aug 18, 2013
Don't your theories have to be observable and repeteable?

Can anyone give me one example of change of kinds?
Mitch

Prior Lake, MN

#1563 Aug 18, 2013
As far as change of kinds, I would also need evidence
Mitch

Prior Lake, MN

#1564 Aug 18, 2013
Can't do it?

Blind faith in man?
Mitch

Prior Lake, MN

#1565 Aug 18, 2013
Faith is the great cop out, the great excuse to evade the need to think and evaluate evidence. Richard Dawkins.

Blind faith in man?

Show me the evidence of what you believe in
Mitch

Prior Lake, MN

#1566 Aug 18, 2013
Richard Dawkins states, life began on the back of a chrystal, show me the evidence..

Blind faith

Richard Dawkins is funny. I'd pay to see him at our local comedy club

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