Ten Reason Why Evolution Is a Lie
BlackNGoldHead2T oe

Lake City, AR

#22 Jul 29, 2009
Come on guys, I've seen documentaries and videos, and write-ups, going all the way back to the 60's-present day. They are scientists, leaders of universities... they have denied evolution for the last decade... I'm not saying you don't have proof, you have shown proof to me... but what causes the inconsistences? It can't be merely written off as, they are lying, or they are religious, b/c many have claimed agnosticism, do not believe the bible, and if they did, they wouldn't take it literally. They are well educated men, some doing research in the respective fields you mention.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#23 Jul 29, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
Come on guys, I've seen documentaries and videos, and write-ups, going all the way back to the 60's-present day. They are scientists, leaders of universities... they have denied evolution for the last decade... I'm not saying you don't have proof, you have shown proof to me... but what causes the inconsistences? It can't be merely written off as, they are lying, or they are religious, b/c many have claimed agnosticism, do not believe the bible, and if they did, they wouldn't take it literally. They are well educated men, some doing research in the respective fields you mention.
They are a very tiny, tiny minority. Don't take my word for it. Check it yourself.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#24 Jul 29, 2009
>>>>BlackNGoldHead 2T oe
Come on guys, I've seen documentaries and videos, and write-ups, going all the way back to the 60's-present day. They are scientists, leaders of universities... they have denied evolution for the last decade...

>>>GIllette
Please be specific. Almost certainly, you will be quoting an evangelical Christian who disputes evolution because the Bible.....etc.

>>>>BlackNGoldHead 2T oe
I'm not saying you don't have proof, you have shown proof to me... but what causes the inconsistences?

>>>GIllette
Fundamentalist Christian propagandizing.

>>>>BlackNGoldHead 2T oe
It can't be merely written off as, they are lying, or they are religious, b/c many have claimed agnosticism, do not believe the bible, and if they did, they wouldn't take it literally. They are well educated men, some doing research in the respective fields you mention.

>>>GIllette
Again please be specific.

I have a long-standing request which I've made numerous times on these threads, with never a real answer, namely:

Please give us the name of one qualified, PhD'ed working biologist who is NON-CHRISTIAN or NON-RELIGOUS and who thinks evolution did not happen and the world was special-created 6000 years ago, etc. BASED SOLELY ON THE EVIDENCE.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#25 Jul 29, 2009
>>>>BlackNGoldHead 2T oe
Come on guys, I've seen documentaries and videos, and write-ups, going all the way back to the 60's-present day. They are scientists, leaders of universities... they have denied evolution for the last decade..

>>>GIllette
To put it another way, if there is a controversy, there is one because fundamentalist Christians SAY there is a controversy, not because there actually IS ONE in the field of biology.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#26 Jul 29, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, thats why they are examining the fossil records and disputing it as well.
Who are?(shrug)
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
Can it be you don't like checks and balances? A fair take in the classroom? Or an idiot christian, in your estimation, butting in?
Yes, that's exactly right, I'm a Satanist. I told you, here:

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/evolution/TLJ...
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#27 Jul 29, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
Chaz, the debate is on! Has been for 100 yrs. I must say the evidence is there, but as Darwin's stepchild has said for every stride made, it creates to wholes. I believe, it to be a fair observation. To simply dismiss one's doubts as ignorance, or the debate as only ,by the media, is absurd. There are many scientist who once believed evo, but now do not. They are far better qualified than I am. Why did they turn their backs on something, virtually established if it were so easily proven. This is one of my many discontentions. I want to learn more, as I have with the bible
(loud record scratching sound)

What does the Bible have to do with science, let alone evolution?

Since you like to guess I'm a "God hater" (despite the fact I get along just fine with the likes of FossilBob, Katydid and Nettiebelle - theists by the way) perhaps we can guess where your objections come from? You have a beef with evolution because that's not how your religion describes the diversity of life on this planet. What's more, there's an extremely vocal group of people who disagree with science precisely because it goes against their favourite religious texts - a group you appear to emphasize with. And that's the reason for your beef, no actual scientific objections. Is this correct?
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#28 Jul 29, 2009
Gillette wrote:
Please give us the name of one qualified, PhD'ed working biologist who is NON-CHRISTIAN or NON-RELIGOUS and who thinks evolution did not happen and the world was special-created 6000 years ago, etc. BASED SOLELY ON THE EVIDENCE.
Oh, they got plenty of engineers, philosophers, a few physicists and chemists, at least one photographer, and a fair few dead people. Biologists, not so much...
Chaz

Manchester, UK

#29 Jul 29, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
Chaz, the debate is on! Has been for 100 yrs.
No it hasn't. I ask you again: go and find any scientific doumentation or published, peer-reviewed papers that dispute evolution. They simply do not exist.

The only objections to evolution come not from science, but from the media. If these people who object to evolution have a case to present, they should present it to the academic arena - not just hire a film crew and broadcast their opinions to the masses claiming to have science on their side. It is dishonest, lazy and extremely harmful to science.
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
I must say the evidence is there, but as Darwin's stepchild has said for every stride made, it creates to wholes.
So? That's what a person would expect when we look for facts to piece together a jigsaw that took nature billions of years to put together.

The fact that the stride can be made is still a solid fact that evidences evolution.
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
I believe, it to be a fair observation. To simply dismiss one's doubts as ignorance, or the debate as only ,by the media, is absurd. There are many scientist who once believed evo, but now do not.
Please present them to me. As far as I am aware, over 99% of life scientists agree with evolution - and those that do not tend to come from areas of study in which they do not observe or apply evolutionary theory.
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
They are far better qualified than I am. Why did they turn their backs on something, virtually established if it were so easily proven.
If they did, it is not because they found contrary evidence - because NONE of that evidence has ever been presented to the scientific arena. It would be because of personal beliefs and biases.

I know I sound like I'm just wailing "everyone who doesn't agree with evolution is just biased!!", but this is something you yourself can check. Go to pubmed central and look for any scientific papers published which dispute evolution theory.

The science simply does not exist.
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
This is one of my many discontentions. I want to learn more, as I have with the bible, for myself, that I will not be led astray by a fine sounding argument.
Then I suggest you stop watching documentaries and start reading peer-reviewed literetature.

It sounds pompous, I know, but documentaries always have an agenda. Scientific literature makes specific references to observable facts, and are reviewed and objectively assessed on their own merits by the scientific community.

As I have said repeatedly, I don't hope to persuade you with my words. I want to encourage you to go out and look at the science itself. Ignore the documentaries, ignore the advice of so called "experts" and go and simply see for yourself that their objections have no scientific basis.
BlackNGoldHead2T oe

Lake City, AR

#30 Jul 29, 2009
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
(loud record scratching sound)
What does the Bible have to do with science, let alone evolution?
Since you like to guess I'm a "God hater" (despite the fact I get along just fine with the likes of FossilBob, Katydid and Nettiebelle - theists by the way) perhaps we can guess where your objections come from? You have a beef with evolution because that's not how your religion describes the diversity of life on this planet. What's more, there's an extremely vocal group of people who disagree with science precisely because it goes against their favourite religious texts - a group you appear to emphasize with. And that's the reason for your beef, no actual scientific objections. Is this correct?
Anybody disagrees they are fundamental christians, thats your argument... every time, no matter what... its your argument
Nuggin

La Quinta, CA

#31 Jul 30, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
<quoted text>
Right, thats why they are examining the fossil records and disputing it as well. Can it be you don't like checks and balances? A fair take in the classroom? Or an idiot christian, in your estimation, butting in?
Would you be willing to give EQUAL time to random people who want to raise questions about the Bible in church?

What criteria would you have for these people to have their questions considered?

Would you accept that EVERY CHURCH spend 10 hours EVERY Sunday answering the same questions over and over again from a group of people who are completely unfamiliar with the Bible?

How many times would you be willing to answer "Where did Moses build his Ark?" before you just scream out "It was Noah! You don't even know what you're talking about?!"

That's what we face when we deal with people like you. People who claim that dinosaurs never existed AND that they were on the ark AND that they existed with Adam and Eve in Eden AND that Jesus made fossils to trick people...all at the same time.

The only thing consistent coming from your side of this debate is a clear demonstration that you (individually and collectively) don't have a solid understanding of the topic at hand.

And that's ALWAYS been the case. You failed to get an education, as such you don't understand science. As a result you don't understand evolution and therefore you claim it is false.

Had you bothered to get an education, you would realize that EVERY objection you've made is based on YOUR misunderstanding of the topic at hand.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#32 Jul 30, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
<quoted text>
Anybody disagrees they are fundamental christians, thats your argument... every time, no matter what... its your argument
That's not what's being said. You're turning this around. The point is that those who dismisses ToE appear to do so based on a religious agenda and not on a scientific basis.

If you can cite a scientist or scientists who disagree with ToE based on science and NOT based on a religious belief, then do so.
The Dude

UK

#33 Jul 30, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
<quoted text>
Anybody disagrees they are fundamental christians, thats your argument... every time, no matter what... its your argument
Not always. There's a fair few muslims, a few Jews, the occasional Hindu, and a rare couple who aren't really religious, don't care too much but are also ignorant of science - like the guy in the video. Difference is, that when they get down to the actual science of evolution, it turns out that not one of them are capable of producing a single argument which hasn't already been put forward by the creo movement in the past 100 years. And all the arguments fail when put to scrutiny, as they are all based on ignorance of the topic.

Yes, like 95% of people who object to evolution are religious, and have religious objections to it rather than scientific ones. The majority of those tend to be of one Christian sect or another. But the fact that they are religious is not the problem - the problem is they don't understand the science involved, nor do they care to.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#34 Jul 30, 2009
The Dude wrote:
But the fact that they are religious is not the problem - the problem is they don't understand the science involved, nor do they care to.
Precisely.
BlackNGoldHead2T oe

Lake City, AR

#35 Jul 30, 2009
Once again, you make assumptions, I do not care if you question the Bible, if I believed you truly had an understanding of it, I might! I don't mean, you haven't had a class or two, I would say you lack life's experience as far as the bible and God, that I know! It must be lived not learned.

As far as the topic of evolution, I may not be as estute as you are. I am fine with the assessment. Evolution does not prove God does not exists. As god existing does not disprove evolution. That part of the debate is over, for me, unless you have another agenda, other than evolution... put it on the table... as with me and science, you lack "experience" in Christianity... It is a personal endeavor, between one man and his god... the church can not save you, if you think so, YOU ARE MISLED. If you think the sins of the father are on the son you are mistaken... the bible is philosophical, in many respects, and has nothing to do with science. I do not expect you to understand, you have proven your as ignorant of my beliefs as you presume me to be of Evolution.

There that states it in black and white, science and the bible have nothing to do with each other. I never took my bible to the science lab, as I did not need it. Get off your God bashing, and speak something more than... "Oh you must be an ignorant Christian Fundamentalist, b/c you don't agree with evolution"... your sermon is sad to say the least! I am embarking on another journey to understand the debate, over evo, it is an expression of my open-mindedness to the subject. I have stated before, it is a jumbled mess, but it is and informed stance, and even more so, since I have met DS, and MIke, I am looking objectively at the evidence, as to date, I see evidence/ similarities, in the gene pool and fossil record. I owe that to the one's on here trying to do something other than God Bash. I can respect your stance on religion, to a certain point I agree. I do more than just take the bible as literal/spiritual, I study it, the controversies around it, the other religions of the world, the archaeological finds that support, the times when dates and times do not match up... I have made an informed stance, based on what is right for me, as I will with evolution. So could we move on?
redneck

United States

#37 Jul 30, 2009
Evolution is a science..Theology is not.. it is non science or nonsense..
BlackNGoldHead2T oe

Lake City, AR

#38 Jul 30, 2009
redneck wrote:
Evolution is a science..Theology is not.. it is non science or nonsense..
It is a disputed science... I see the line of evidence, but the evidence is still debateable, even in the scientific realm. I must say as well, there is much evidence to support the holocaust being a product of science... not necessarily religion..........Proctor, Robert N., "Science and Nazism," review of Murderous Science, by Benno Müller-Hill (New York: Oxford University Press, 1988, 208 pp.), Science, vol. 241 (August 5, 1988), pp. 730-731.)

There is much evidence and much debate about it all...

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#39 Jul 30, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
I am embarking on another journey to understand the debate, over evo, it is an expression of my open-mindedness to the subject.
It gladdens me to see that you are looking at things with more objectivity, but you also have to understand how this reads to us (us being those who are educated in the sciences). The debate over evolution is purely a religious debate. The scientific debate ended about 100 years ago with the rediscovery of Mendel's work. The mechanisms of heredity was the last piece of the puzzle for the Theory of Evolution. In fact, the discovery that DNA was the molecule involved in heredity barely even changed the theory.

When someone says that they want to objectively study the debate over evolution it is equivalent to someone stating in the 21st century that they are going to objectively study the debate between heliocentrism and geocentrism. That's what it sounds like. The only reason that anyone even insists that there is a debate is because of religious dogma. That's it.

I'm not trying to bark at you. You are obviously making progress and that should be applauded. Perhaps after a few months you will come to see why "the debate over evolution" sounds so silly.

“Church of Latter Day Heathens”

Since: Feb 09

Austin, Tx

#40 Jul 30, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a disputed science... I see the line of evidence, but the evidence is still debateable, even in the scientific realm. I must say as well, there is much evidence to support the holocaust being a product of science... not necessarily religion..........Proctor, Robert N., "Science and Nazism," review of Murderous Science, by Benno Müller-Hill (New York: Oxford University Press, 1988, 208 pp.), Science, vol. 241 (August 5, 1988), pp. 730-731.)
There is much evidence and much debate about it all...
The ONLY time I ever hear about a debate over evolution is from fundamentalist, or people who have no idea what so ever concerning the sciences supporting evolution. The ONLY time.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#41 Jul 30, 2009
BlackNGoldHead2Toe wrote:
I must say as well, there is much evidence to support the holocaust being a product of science... not necessarily religion..........Proctor, Robert N., "Science and Nazism," review of Murderous Science, by Benno Müller-Hill (New York: Oxford University Press, 1988, 208 pp.), Science, vol. 241 (August 5, 1988), pp. 730-731.)
There is much evidence and much debate about it all...
ARGH! Please don't bring that argument up again. Hitler was into eugenics. Darwin, if you read him, was diametrically opposed to such a philosophy. As well as slavery.

It sounds like you've been watching Expelled.
BlackNGoldHead2T oe

Lake City, AR

#42 Jul 30, 2009
I'm not making strides, I'm only pulling the info together. I do have an informed stance, based on my readings... both pro and con... it's not easy to reconcile the two, when there is evidence both ways. Not that evo is not taking place, or we have commonalities with apes, but where the puzzle comes together. The divergence between the two, and this is the GREAT DEBATE!

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