Endogenous NON-retroviruses

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“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#1 Jan 7, 2010
This is new, hot off the presses...

http://scienceblogs.com/erv/2010/01/endogenou...

Seems there are viruses, which are not retroviruses, that still occasionally get added to our genome. These viruses do their replication in the nucleus of the cell, and reside near the chromosomes, using the mechanisms of our DNA to replicate. On very rare occasions they get added to our DNA, though that isn't their usual MO (unlike retroviruses which DO add to our DNA all the time).

So an endogenous NON-retrovirus (there has got to be a better name) is very, very rare.

Well, it seems that scientists have found one that is not only in all apes, all primates, but in a very large number of mammal species, including elephants. Not just the same virus, but in the same location in all these genomes.

So you either have a very VERY unlikely insertion, happening in hundreds of species, by the exact same virus, in the exact same location...

Or you have one insertion and common descent.

Which makes more sense?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#2 Jan 7, 2010
They've faded away!!!!

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#3 Jan 7, 2010
The Dude wrote:
They've faded away!!!!
Yes, marky.[/sarcasm]

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#4 Jan 7, 2010
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#5 Jan 7, 2010
This won't matter at all to the "creationists".

NO amount of evidence will ever convince them that the ToE is a valid scientific theory and that their childish goat-herder interpretation of a bronze age book of myth and fable is wrong.

They will either;

1) ignore the evidence,...

2) claim it is all a lie perpetrated by the global anti-christian liberal communist scientific community,...

3) merely claim that it is actually evidence for a "common designer" without ever explaining WHY a common designer would need to design all of these mammalian species (but not others) with this endogenous NON-retrovirus in the EXACT same spot in their genes.

We've seen it all before with hundreds of new scientific discoveries that have come out, Archaeopteryx, Lucy, Tiktaalik roseae, Gerobatrachus hottoni, endogenous retroviruses, primate chromosome 2 fusion in humans, etc., etc., etc., and we will continue to see the same with this new information and we will continue to see the same in the future.

"creationist thinking" is immune to scientific evidence, logic and reason.

“Dor sho gha!”

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Iowa City, IA

#6 Jan 7, 2010
One thing we need to consider is if this ENRV falls within a specific 1/10th block of the genome...

*dodges thrown tomatoes, large Vaudeville hook on stage*

Level 1

Since: Nov 08

Boise, ID

#7 Jan 7, 2010
Feklahr wrote:
One thing we need to consider is if this ENRV falls within a specific 1/10th block of the genome...
*dodges thrown tomatoes, large Vaudeville hook on stage*
1/10th of the genome is still 300 million bases, or 300 million possible insertion sites. Also, the insertions are spread over multiple chromosomes indicating that there are many insertion sites available. So the chances of sharing just one insertion through independent insertions would be 1 in 300 million. There many of these insertions.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#8 Jan 7, 2010
MIDutch wrote:
This won't matter at all to the "creationists".
NO amount of evidence will ever convince them that the ToE is a valid scientific theory and that their childish goat-herder interpretation of a bronze age book of myth and fable is wrong.
They will either;
1) ignore the evidence,...
2) claim it is all a lie perpetrated by the global anti-christian liberal communist scientific community,...
3) merely claim that it is actually evidence for a "common designer" without ever explaining WHY a common designer would need to design all of these mammalian species (but not others) with this endogenous NON-retrovirus in the EXACT same spot in their genes.
We've seen it all before with hundreds of new scientific discoveries that have come out, Archaeopteryx, Lucy, Tiktaalik roseae, Gerobatrachus hottoni, endogenous retroviruses, primate chromosome 2 fusion in humans, etc., etc., etc., and we will continue to see the same with this new information and we will continue to see the same in the future.
"creationist thinking" is immune to scientific evidence, logic and reason.
Sadly, this likely is true. These are the same arguments they use on ERVs. And they make just as little sense in this case.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#9 Jan 7, 2010
And of course the creo's will ignore the fact that this ENRV insertion fits right in with the phylogenic tree that has been developed by ToE.
MIDutch

Waterford, MI

#10 Jan 7, 2010
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
And of course the creo's will ignore the fact that this ENRV insertion fits right in with the phylogenic tree that has been developed by ToE.
Well, "ignore" and "ignorance" have the same root word, ignorare, which I believe is Latin for "creationist".

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#11 Jan 7, 2010
Erasmus05 wrote:
1/10th of the genome is still 300 million bases, or 300 million possible insertion sites.
I think he was busting on Markey's 'Block Theory of Biblical Prophesy'

“Transitional Molecular Fossils”

Since: Dec 06

Somewhere in Penn's Woods

#12 Jan 7, 2010
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
So an endogenous NON-retrovirus (there has got to be a better name) is very, very rare.
There is, it is called a “bornavirus” and it has been linked to mental illness.

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/52...

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#13 Jan 7, 2010
Katydid wrote:
<quoted text>
There is, it is called a “bornavirus” and it has been linked to mental illness.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/52...
Thanx.

Off topic...

Been a weird week. My neighbor's wife tried to take Missy-dog. She claimed I was mistreating Missy by keeping her outside in the cold. Missy is a VERY furry dog and loves this cold weather.

Anyway, I had to call the police to get my dog back. Now my neighbor's wife is in the hospital, having had some other delusional breaks. Weird week.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#14 Jan 7, 2010
Katydid wrote:
<quoted text>
There is, it is called a “bornavirus” and it has been linked to mental illness.
http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/52...
BTW, thanx for pointing out the "bornavirus". After going back and rereading ERV's article, I notice the name.

“Dor sho gha!”

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Iowa City, IA

#15 Jan 7, 2010
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
I think he was busting on Markey's 'Block Theory of Biblical Prophesy'
Yeha, sry, didn't mean to get too "inside jokey", I am just trying to make 1/10th blocks more ubiquitous.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#16 Jan 7, 2010
Feklahr wrote:
Yeha, sry, didn't mean to get too "inside jokey", I am just trying to make 1/10th blocks more ubiquitous.
Yes. The scientific significance of the 1/10th block should not be overlooked. It is important. ;-)

“Transitional Molecular Fossils”

Since: Dec 06

Somewhere in Penn's Woods

#17 Jan 7, 2010
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanx.
Off topic...
Been a weird week. My neighbor's wife tried to take Missy-dog. She claimed I was mistreating Missy by keeping her outside in the cold. Missy is a VERY furry dog and loves this cold weather.
Anyway, I had to call the police to get my dog back. Now my neighbor's wife is in the hospital, having had some other delusional breaks. Weird week.
How awful! You mean the police or SPCA or whomever just up and took your dog? On her word alone? You need to be careful, although I understand that Missy is able to withstand this cold snap, there are many out there that are misinformed and think that they are doing a kind, humane thing. I know that right now in PA we have a few people that are trying to get a law passed to make it illegal to keep your dog outside for prolonged periods, especially in this horrendous cold. My little dog cannot be outside for more that 5-7 minutes, she starts shivering.

“Transitional Molecular Fossils”

Since: Dec 06

Somewhere in Penn's Woods

#18 Jan 7, 2010
Darwins Stepchild wrote:
<quoted text>
BTW, thanx for pointing out the "bornavirus". After going back and rereading ERV's article, I notice the name.
Yep, more molecular fossils, On and on they just keep on coming. They have found two genes, coining them, EBLN-1 and EBLN-2 (for endogenous Borna-like N), are molecular fossils of this ancient bornavirus.

Ooh, "On and on, they just keep on coming", you know, like the Stephen Bishop song?

On and on
He (the Creationist) just keeps on trying
And he smiles when he feels like crying ("No, why are there more molecular fossils?!!!! Dang Nab It!!!")
But they keep on comin'
On and on, on and on, on and on.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#19 Jan 7, 2010
Katydid wrote:
<quoted text>
How awful! You mean the police or SPCA or whomever just up and took your dog? On her word alone? You need to be careful, although I understand that Missy is able to withstand this cold snap, there are many out there that are misinformed and think that they are doing a kind, humane thing. I know that right now in PA we have a few people that are trying to get a law passed to make it illegal to keep your dog outside for prolonged periods, especially in this horrendous cold. My little dog cannot be outside for more that 5-7 minutes, she starts shivering.
No, no, no. The police got my dog back from her. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I let Missy sleep inside when it is cold or wet if she wants to. She knows all she has to do is scratch at the back door if she wants in. Even in this cold weather, she will want out and stay out for hours.

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#20 Jan 7, 2010
Katydid wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, more molecular fossils, On and on they just keep on coming. They have found two genes, coining them, EBLN-1 and EBLN-2 (for endogenous Borna-like N), are molecular fossils of this ancient bornavirus.
Ooh, "On and on, they just keep on coming", you know, like the Stephen Bishop song?
On and on
He (the Creationist) just keeps on trying
And he smiles when he feels like crying ("No, why are there more molecular fossils?!!!! Dang Nab It!!!")
But they keep on comin'
On and on, on and on, on and on.
Been quite a day for evolution news. Bornavirus. Tetrapod footprints. Pre baleen whale fossil.

All in one day (at least for me).

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