god is not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!...
lectron

Howell, MI

#13828 Jun 26, 2014
he's not even close to being real l Everytitime I pray it wasn't even me praying it was just just me peering into the future my life is Awful god is not real And if I didn't believe in him I would habe been A better person And more people would would like me.. And I would have less suicidal thoughts! Or I would have less morals And woulda like went Around killing people And tryna take over the world.. so good job subduing me

“There is no Truth in Faith”

Level 5

Since: Dec 08

nowhere near a pound of $100's

#13829 Jun 26, 2014
lectron wrote:
he's not even close to being real l Everytitime I pray it wasn't even me praying it was just just me peering into the future my life is Awful god is not real And if I didn't believe in him I would habe been A better person And more people would would like me.. And I would have less suicidal thoughts! Or I would have less morals And woulda like went Around killing people And tryna take over the world.. so good job subduing me
Yea, that's what I've always suspected. At the heart of every religinut is an evil despot who would go around killing people if he weren't scared of his God.
tokyojim

Mount Joy, PA

#13831 Nov 13, 2014
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Ooooops!
Hitler was a self-professed Christian-- JUST LIKE YOU.
None of the rest held atheism as their CHIEF CAUSE-- thus it was not ATHEISM that drove them to do what they did...
So I did not bother to read the rest of your rant-- it was likely to be a lie anyway.
Bob, Hitler was not a true Christian. The Bible says "You shall know them by their fruits." He was a very clever guy though. In the beginning, I believe he did believe in God, but he was greatly influenced by evolutionary thought, eugenics, etc. He learned that he could use religion to control the people. And he did so with great success.

Even wikipedia has this sentence about Hitler: "According to Geoffrey Blainey, when the Nazis became the main opponent of Communism in Germany, Hitler saw Christianity as a temporary ally."

You better get your atheist cronies up in arms about that and re-edit it to reflect your own views. Look up the religious views of Adolph Hitler. Not that you are interested in the truth, but if you need some evidence to back up what I said above, you may check out this site: http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.h...

However, I probably should not have put his name on that list. I knew of his religious claims before. Whatever the case, it is certainly true that he was not a Christian. You may not agree. That is your prerogative, but much study has been done on this.

The other atheists you say did not hold it as their first cause. I don't know about that, but I do know that their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died. So, in that sense, their atheism played a key enabling role in their decision to murder so many. If they thought they would be held accountable by someone after death, there is no way they would have done what they did.(my opinion)

Cheers!
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#13832 Nov 14, 2014
tokyojim wrote:
<quoted text>
Bob, Hitler was not a true Christian.
Of course. Anybody you don't agree with is "not a true christian." LOL
tokyojim wrote:
<quoted text>
In the beginning, I believe he did believe in God, but he was greatly influenced by evolutionary thought, eugenics, etc.
The "evolutionary thought" you cite here is whackjob political distortions of what scientists discovered about the evolution of species. Eugenics has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution per se.
tokyojim wrote:
<quoted text>
Not that you are interested in the truth, but if you need some evidence to back up what I said above, you may check out this site: http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.h...
Yeah, we're all going to go right over to some hillbilly "Christian" website to "get the truth." LOL
tokyojim wrote:
<quoted text>
The other atheists you say did not hold it as their first cause. I don't know about that, but I do know that their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died.
And just how do you "know" this? Because Pastor Billy Bob told you?

Go ahead and quote some of the direct writings or speeches of Nazi-era Germans that say "their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died."
tokyojim wrote:
<quoted text>
So, in that sense, their atheism played a key enabling role in their decision to murder so many. If they thought they would be held accountable by someone after death, there is no way they would have done what they did.(my opinion)
Cheers!
Suggested reading:
"Hitler's Willing Executioners: Ordinary Germans and the Holocaust" by Daniel
http://www.amazon.com/Hitlers-Willing-Executi...

From the Amazon review copy:

Goldhagen's gripping and shocking landmark study transforms our understanding of the Holocaust. Refuting the widespread notion that those who carried out the genocide of Jews were primarily SS men or Nazi party members, he demonstrates that the perpetrators --those who staffed and oversaw the concentration camps, slave labor camps, genocidal army units, police battalions, ghettos, death marches --were, for the most part, ordinary German men and women: merchants, civil servants, academics, farmers, students, managers, skilled and unskilled workers.

Rejecting the conventional view that the killers were slavishly carrying out orders under coercion, Goldhagen, assistant professor of government at Harvard, uses hitherto untapped primary sources, including the testimonies of the perpetrators themselves, to show that they killed Jews willingly, approvingly, even zealously.

Hitler's genocidal program of a "Final Solution" found ready accomplices in these ordinary Germans who, as Goldhagen persuasively argues, had absorbed a virulent, "eliminationist" anti-Semitism, prevalent as far back as the 18th century, which demonized the Jews and called for their expulsion or physical annihilation.

Furthermore, his research reveals that a large proportion of the killers were told by their commanders that they could disobey orders to kill, without fear of retribution?yet they slaughtered Jews anyway. By his careful estimate, hundreds of thousands of Germans were directly involved in the mass murder, and millions more knew of the ongoing genocide.

End quote

And guess what? 99% of these "willing German executioners" were church-going Lutheran Christians. Not atheists.

Gee, I wonder where they got their long-standing history of Jew-hating? Could it be the Catholic (and later the Protestant) Church?

And actually, the Jew hatred can be traced straight back to the gospels. It is rooted very deeply in the scriptures and history of Christianity.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#13833 Nov 14, 2014
tokyojim wrote:
Bob, Hitler was not a true Christian. The Bible says "You shall know them by their fruits." He was a very clever guy though.
Fundies like you don't get to decide. You aren't God. If they did, there would hardly be any.
tokyojim wrote:
In the beginning, I believe he did believe in God
What YOU believe is irrelevant.
tokyojim wrote:
but he was greatly influenced by evolutionary thought
Even if that was the case that wouldn't affect the validity of evolution.
tokyojim wrote:
eugenics, etc.
Eugenics being the idea of restricting diversity, as opposed to evolution which thrives on diversity. So kinda complete opposites really.
tokyojim wrote:
He learned that he could use religion to control the people. And he did so with great success.
Fundamentalist religion in a nutshell.

It obviously worked on you.(shrug)
tokyojim wrote:
Even wikipedia has this sentence about Hitler: "According to Geoffrey Blainey, when the Nazis became the main opponent of Communism in Germany, Hitler saw Christianity as a temporary ally."
You better get your atheist cronies up in arms about that and re-edit it to reflect your own views.
No need. The guy's dead, his religious beliefs along with him. The claim however is about Hitler being a proponent of evolution, which we've just debunked (again). A silly claim though since he was also a proponent of gravity.
tokyojim wrote:
Look up the religious views of Adolph Hitler. Not that you are interested in the truth, but if you need some evidence to back up what I said above, you may check out this site: http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.h...
There are no answers there, only apologetics ignoring his pro-theistic quotes. They also LIE for Jesus on other subjects, such as science. Hitler certainly had his own religious ideas which the church may not have appreciated, but since you yourself said he believed in God it's quite obvious he was NOT an atheist.
tokyojim wrote:
However, I probably should not have put his name on that list. I knew of his religious claims before. Whatever the case, it is certainly true that he was not a Christian. You may not agree. That is your prerogative, but much study has been done on this.
Not by you, obviously.
tokyojim wrote:
The other atheists you say did not hold it as their first cause. I don't know about that, but I do know that their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died. So, in that sense, their atheism played a key enabling role in their decision to murder so many. If they thought they would be held accountable by someone after death, there is no way they would have done what they did.
Let's pretend that's true. Fundies don't think themselves accountable either because they think God WANTS them to lie or kill, or that God will forgive them - 100% guaranteed. There is also the one thing you're forgetting, is that not one atheist would think they would be held unaccountable in THIS life.

So you're still making stupid arguments.
tokyojim wrote:
(my opinion)
Cheers!
And your opinion is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else. It doesn't matter. Never did. You are quite simply not that important.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#13834 Nov 14, 2014
People don't believe in God because of emperical evidence; faith is the standard for religious belief.

I hope that helps.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#13835 Nov 14, 2014
Why yes it does. Thank you Brian, for that most profound of profound revelations; in fact I believe that is at the very heart of why this entire forum exists in the first place: showing that fundies voracious appetite for the non-empirical leads to reality-denial so strong it kinda makes ya wonder whether slamming them with a two-by-four would actually have any kind of affect at all. But don't worry buddy, I'm sure you'll get all those hospital bills paid someday.

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#13836 Nov 15, 2014
I find Christians perfectly comfortable with knowing their belief is based on faith and not reason; everybody has irrational beliefs. I see the problem where secularists don't understand their irrational beliefs are based on faith too.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#13837 Nov 15, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
I find Christians perfectly comfortable with knowing their belief is based on faith and not reason; everybody has irrational beliefs. I see the problem where secularists don't understand their irrational beliefs are based on faith too.
Yeah like we haven't heard that one before. What "irrational belief" is required to support rational empirical skepticism in your humble opinion?
Jim May

Mount Joy, PA

#13838 Nov 15, 2014
Bob,
I see you are more interested in insult, ridicule, and ignoring my points rather than having an honest discussion. I don’t think it is worth my time, but I will make a few points and then let you have at it.
<quoted text>
Eugenics has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution per se. <quoted text>

From Darwin’s Descent of Man:““It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.”“

Eugenics comes straight out of the evolutionary idea of the survival of the fittest and Darwin himself was full on board as that quote shows. Darwin’s cousin, Sir Francis Galton is called the “Father of Eugenics”. Eugenics is even making a comeback today in some circles. There is really no way to say that it is “wrong” from an evolutionary perspective. Eugenics makes sense from an evolutionary perspective - you are simply getting rid of genetic misfits in society so they cannot reproduce and spread their corrupted genes any further. Of course, that implicates all of us since we all carry many many mutations in our genes, but that’s beside the point. It encourages racism and a condescending view of people. It bases their “value” not on their humanity, but their abilities, health, etc. http://www.discovery.org/a/1573

tokyojim wrote:
<quoted text>
"... but I do know that their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died.

“And just how do you "know" this? Because Pastor Billy Bob told you?” <quoted text>

More condescending ridicule as if anyone who disagrees with you is some uneducated redneck.

How do I know this? Because we need laws in society to keep order. Even with moral accountability people break the law, but imagine if there was no law and we actually believed that we are morally free to live and act as we want! Now fortunately, most atheists do not carry their beliefs to their logical conclusion or to the extreme like these guys did. Usually one’s conscience and the laws of the country prevent this, but when you become the law in a country, watch out! It becomes easier to do and to justify. You can rationalize anything if you really want to, especially when you have convinced yourself that there is no such thing as absolute right/wrong.

<quote>Go ahead and quote some of the direct writings or speeches of Nazi-era Germans that say "their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died." <quote>

http://humanevents.com/2008/05/05/darwin-and-...

You suggested a book to read, but I found it interesting that there were almost as many low reviews as high reviews which tells me his work is controversial. The naysayers seemed to have some good points. There are other books that come to different conclusions. That said, I can’t deny that some “ordinary” Germans were involved in the atrocities. There were also some “ordinary” Germans involved in helping the Jews and advocating for the other groups he discriminated against – which were totally ignored by Goldhagen in his book.
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#13839 Nov 15, 2014
Brian_G wrote:
I find Christians perfectly comfortable with knowing their belief is based on faith and not reason; everybody has irrational beliefs. I see the problem where secularists don't understand their irrational beliefs are based on faith too.
And while you ignore your fellow creationists, to which are you referring?

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Level 10

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#13840 Nov 15, 2014
Equality, social justice and class struggle to name three.
Jim May

Mount Joy, PA

#13841 Nov 15, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Fundies like you don't get to decide. You aren't God. If they did, there would hardly be any.
</quoted text>

I see. But atheist fundies like you do? Hmm.
But you are right in that I do not decide ultimately, but Jesus will and He is the one who said “You shall know them by their fruits.” The Bible is filled with warnings to so called believers. Here is another one:“Not everyone who says to me,‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.”

Hitler may have self-identified as a Christian in the early days, but I think any objective person can see that from God’s point of view, that would not be the case.

<quoted text>
Even if that was the case that wouldn't affect the validity of evolution.
</quoted text>

Did I make that claim? Why are you attacking straw men?

<quoted text>Eugenics being the idea of restricting diversity, as opposed to evolution which thrives on diversity. So kinda complete opposites really.</quoted text>

http://humanevents.com/2008/05/05/darwin-and-...
Nice try! Come on. That’s ridiculous! Do you honestly think that people can't see through your word smithing? You really do think we're stupid, don't you!

Eugenics is not about restricting diversity, but eliminating the bad genes from the gene pool so evolution can speed on. This type of dishonesty does not bode well for any of your claims.

<quoted text>Hitler certainly had his own religious ideas which the church may not have appreciated, but since you yourself said he believed in God it's quite obvious he was NOT an atheist.</quoted text>

Yes, in the beginning he was definitely not an atheist. I personally am of the opinion that he gave up his faith, embraced evolutionary thought and never looked back. You are free to disagree.

<quoted text>
Let's pretend that's true. Fundies don't think themselves accountable either because they think God WANTS them to lie or kill, or that God will forgive them - 100% guaranteed. There is also the one thing you're forgetting, is that not one atheist would think they would be held unaccountable in THIS life.</quoted text>

Sir, respectfully, I don’t think you understand “Fundies” like me. If you are of the opinion that we think that God wants us to lie or kill, you are gravely mistaken. We do believe that God will forgive us, but not that we have a “license to sin” and do anything we want. The verses I quoted above should make that sufficiently clear.

<quoted text>And your opinion is exactly that. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing else. It doesn't matter. Never did. You are quite simply not that important.</quoted text>
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#13842 Nov 15, 2014
Jim May wrote:
From Darwin’s Descent of Man:““It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.”“
Eugenics comes straight out of the evolutionary idea of the survival of the fittest and Darwin himself was full on board as that quote shows.
Since eugenics is about artificial intervention to remove natural selection, fitness is no longer a factor. Also Darwin was not a proponent like his cousin was.
Jim May wrote:
There is really no way to say that it is “wrong” from an evolutionary perspective.
There's no way to say it's "wrong" from a gravitational perspective, so why not lay that criticism of gravity or any other natural process?
Jim May wrote:
Eugenics makes sense from an evolutionary perspective - you are simply getting rid of genetic misfits in society so they cannot reproduce and spread their corrupted genes any further.
No you're not. You're ensuring they occur in the long run because you're restricting diversity. Diversity is what gives the best chances for survival.
Jim May wrote:
It encourages racism and a condescending view of people.
Which is why the Nazis went for it.
Jim May wrote:
More condescending ridicule as if anyone who disagrees with you is some uneducated redneck.
How do I know this? Because we need laws in society to keep order. Even with moral accountability people break the law, but imagine if there was no law and we actually believed that we are morally free to live and act as we want! Now fortunately, most atheists do not carry their beliefs to their logical conclusion or to the extreme like these guys did. Usually one’s conscience and the laws of the country prevent this, but when you become the law in a country, watch out! It becomes easier to do and to justify. You can rationalize anything if you really want to, especially when you have convinced yourself that there is no such thing as absolute right/wrong.
So what you're saying is that invisible magic Jews are necessary for us to make up laws because atheists don't worry about accountability in the afterlife means they don't in this life either? That's some effed up logic ya got thar, Jim. Besides which I already explained why your position means no accountability, so uh...(shrug)
Jim May wrote:
http://humanevents.com/2008/05 /05/darwin-and-hitler-in-their -own-words
So what you did was IGNORE their theistic beliefs and linked to an idiot who can't tell the difference between natural and artificial selection either. Quite disingenuous.
Jim May wrote:
You suggested a book to read, but I found it interesting that there were almost as many low reviews as high reviews which tells me his work is controversial. The naysayers seemed to have some good points. There are other books that come to different conclusions. That said, I can’t deny that some “ordinary” Germans were involved in the atrocities. There were also some “ordinary” Germans involved in helping the Jews and advocating for the other groups he discriminated against – which were totally ignored by Goldhagen in his book.
As a creationist you have no problem with ignoring inconvenient facts.(shrug)
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#13843 Nov 15, 2014
Jim May wrote:
I see. But atheist fundies like you do?
Nope. I never made that claim. What makes me an atheist fundie then?
Jim May wrote:
The Bible is filled with warnings to so called believers.
It doesn't matter. It's only the word of believers we have on the existence of these invisible Jews of yours in the first place, and each and every fundie thinks God WILL give them a free pass. That's why you're all riding an (imaginary) Holy High Horse.
Jim May wrote:
Hitler may have self-identified as a Christian in the early days, but I think any objective person can see that from God’s point of view, that would not be the case.
Considering ANY God's actual EXISTENCE cannot be objectively verified AT ALL I'd say you're fulloshit.(shrug)
Jim May wrote:
Nice try! Come on. That’s ridiculous! Do you honestly think that people can't see through your word smithing? You really do think we're stupid, don't you!
Eugenics is not about restricting diversity, but eliminating the bad genes from the gene pool so evolution can speed on. This type of dishonesty does not bode well for any of your claims.
Really? Then which dog has the "bad genes", the Labrador or the Great Dane?

It ain't ME being a wordsmith, Jimbo, it's just you being utterly clueless on science, period.
Jim May wrote:
Yes, in the beginning he was definitely not an atheist. I personally am of the opinion
Nobody gives a fig about your opinion.(shrug) Fact is the idea he was an atheist at all was invented by liars for Jesus.
Jim May wrote:
embraced evolutionary thought
Maybe he even thought that himself, fact is he was doing it wrong.
Jim May wrote:
You are free to disagree.
I disagree because facts you're wrong period.
Jim May wrote:
Sir, respectfully, I don’t think you understand “Fundies” like me. If you are of the opinion that we think that God wants us to lie or kill, you are gravely mistaken.
Tell that to ISIS. Or even a certain portion of the US military who fight them. However that's beside the point, which was that fundies can and do justify anything they like via "God", and their ego lets them think that not only are they personally cosmically important, but also that the Almighty Creator of the entire universe itself will agree with them no matter what. Hitler certainly seemed to play it that way. And we already know fundies lie on THESE forums profusely, so like I said obviously "true" Christians must be a worldwide minority, relegating it to a pretty insignificant minor religion.
Jim May wrote:
We do believe that God will forgive us, but not that we have a “license to sin” and do anything we want.
Uh, that's what the assumption of forgiveness IS. It serves two purposes - to guilt-trip others into believing, and to feed your ego.
Jim May wrote:
The verses I quoted above should make that sufficiently clear.
It doesn't matter since they were all written by MEN anyway. ALL our "knowledge" of God comes from men pretending to know more about invisible wizards existing beyond spacetime as we know it than anyone else does. Hitler's theistic beliefs? Man's opinion. Bible's theistic beliefs? Man's opinion. Your theistic beliefs? Man's opinion. Your baseless theological opinions are irrelevant. And they are also irrelevant to evolution in its entirety.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#13844 Nov 15, 2014
Jim May wrote:
Hitler may have self-identified as a Christian in the early days, but I think any objective person can see that from God’s point of view, that would not be the case.
I don;t think Martin Luther ever identified as anything but an ardent Christian....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Luther_an...

"In 1543 Luther published On the Jews and Their Lies in which he says that the Jews are a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[13] They are full of the "devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine."[14] The synagogue was a "defiled bride, yes, an incorrigible whore and an evil slut ..."[15] He argues that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated. They should be shown no mercy or kindness,[16] afforded no legal protection,[17] and these "poisonous envenomed worms" should be drafted into forced labor or expelled for all time.[18] He also seems to advocate their murder, writing "[w]e are at fault in not slaying them".[19]"

Read the last sentence carefully then ask yourself whether Luther, father of Protestantism and hugely influential, might just have laid Hitler's foundations for him.

Read it again: we are at fault for not slaying them. Not Hitler's words and not an atheist's words.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#13845 Nov 15, 2014
Jim May wrote:
I see you are more interested in insult, ridicule, and ignoring my points rather than having an honest discussion.
You're right on this. I apologize for the ridicule, etc. End of along, frustrating day at work, etc.

I prefer intelligent discussion over tit-for-tat insults, etc.(even though I'm not perfect in that regard from time to time ).
Jim May wrote:
Eugenics has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution per se. <quoted text>
From Darwin’s Descent of Man:““It is surprising how soon a want of care, or care wrongly directed, leads to the degeneration of a domestic race; but excepting in the case of man himself, hardly any one is so ignorant as to allow his worst animals to breed.”“
Eugenics comes straight out of the evolutionary idea of the survival of the fittest and Darwin himself was full on board as that quote shows.
Fully on board? You seem to be claiming that Darwin was a crusader for the killing off of the weak, etc. Huge exaggerration.:)

It's certainly true that in the late 19th century a few political and philosophical people speculated about improving the human race by eugenics, although it remained a crackpot few, until Hitler came along to institutionalize it.

The modern Theory of Evolution, which has been the backbone of the life sciences for 150 years and is accepted by virtually all scientists in the field (even if disputed by many conservative Christians) is NOT A POLITICAL PROGRAM or a philosophy, but an experimental recognition of WHAT IS and what happens in nature, namely that species evolve from one another in nested hierarchies based on mutation plus the filtering action of natural selection.
Jim May wrote:
There is really no way to say that it is “wrong” from an evolutionary perspective.
Right or wrong is a value judgement. Science doesn't advocate political or religious solutions.

Science just shows us how the undirected, non-conscious, non-deliberate process of evolution works. Does science intervene in that process from time to time, as in dog-breeding or updating of flu vaccines? Yes.

Does science advocate the killing of inferior human beings? Clearly not.
Jim May wrote:
It encourages racism and a condescending view of people.
Science doesn't encourage racism or a condescending view of others. Racists and condescending people do, for the furtherance of their political agendas. And they usually twist the scientific knowledge when they do.
Jim May wrote:
<quoted text>
"... but I do know that their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died.
“And just how do you "know" this?

How do I know this? Because we need laws in society to keep order.....Now fortunately, most atheists do not carry their beliefs to their logical conclusion or to the extreme like these guys did.

Please explain how the basic atheist point of view – that there is no evidence of God and in the absence of such, they do not believe in one – naturally and logically leads to lawlessness, murder, rape, etc.

Are there any statistics that show that the world's atheists are violent, frothing-at-the-mouth people just teetering on the edge of "going off" violently? I think you know there ISN'T.

How do you explain that the most atheist countries -- many of the European countries and especially the Scandinavian countries such as Finland, Norway, Sweden, etc.-- are by and large the most peaceful countries with the lowest crime and violence rate, the highest living standard, the highest educational standards, etc.?

Wouldn't you predict, based on their supposed "moral values," that overtly religious countries like the US, etc. would always be in top in terms of those measurements?

Surely that's not the fault of "evil biologists"?:)
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#13846 Nov 15, 2014
Jim May wrote:
<quote>Go ahead and quote some of the direct writings or speeches of Nazi-era Germans that say "their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died." <quote>
http://humanevents.com/2008/05/05/darwin-and-...
Completely evades the question. Show evidence that either Hitler or Darwin professed atheism and felt that "their atheism freed them up to act as they did because they knew they would not be accountable to any god when they died."

There IS none, because this is a fundamentalist Christian pastor's talking point, and not a very good one, at that.

Plus, your page says, "All this doesn’t mean that Darwinism was the sole cause of Hitler’s barbarism. But it does make clear that Darwinism must shoulder its share of the moral burden, because the connection is undeniable."

There it is again. The willful and dishonest confusion of science and crackpot political philosophy in order to attack science and promote Jesus. There is no such thing as "Darwinism" in science, and modern biology does not advocate any such thing, therefore it does not "shoulder a moral burden."
The Dude

Wallasey, UK

#13847 Nov 15, 2014
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
You're right on this. I apologize for the ridicule, etc. End of along, frustrating day at work, etc.
I prefer intelligent discussion over tit-for-tat insults, etc.(even though I'm not perfect in that regard from time to time ).
Well he IS invoking Godwin's which is about the basest ad-hom you can get, so uh...

(shrug)
Jim May

Mount Joy, PA

#13848 Nov 16, 2014
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Since eugenics is about artificial intervention to remove natural selection, fitness is no longer a factor. Also Darwin was not a proponent like his cousin was.
<quoted text>
There's no way to say it's "wrong" from a gravitational perspective, so why not lay that criticism of gravity or any other natural process?
<quoted text>
No you're not. You're ensuring they occur in the long run because you're restricting diversity. Diversity is what gives the best chances for survival.
<quoted text>
Which is why the Nazis went for it.
<quoted text>
So what you're saying is that invisible magic Jews are necessary for us to make up laws because atheists don't worry about accountability in the afterlife means they don't in this life either? That's some effed up logic ya got thar, Jim. Besides which I already explained why your position means no accountability, so uh...(shrug)
<quoted text>
So what you did was IGNORE their theistic beliefs and linked to an idiot who can't tell the difference between natural and artificial selection either. Quite disingenuous.
<quoted text>
As a creationist you have no problem with ignoring inconvenient facts.(shrug)
OK Dude,

When I answer one of your accusations, you just shrug it off and claim you already answered it. We just can't have a rational discussion like this.

Wishing you & yours the best!

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