god is not real!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#13426
Jan 29, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
I don’t mean to be rude, please correct me if I’m wrong & I apologise in advance but I’m afraid you don’t seem to get it re:USB. The point is that the essay has NO MASS period. How precisely one can describe its electronics is irrelevant. Perhaps you could try answering the question why it has no mass & what’s the significance of this?
The essay is physically in the *arrangement* of the materials on the USB. So it is based on material things. I see no relevance to your claim that it is massless.
I will grant the point photons have no mass & opine they could be on a continuum between material & non-material reality.[This is strictly MY opinion at this stage & if it’s wrong I accept that].
BS. Photons are material, physical things that obey the laws of physics.
Mental state DO involve material processes in the brain but it does not follow they are also material. A story in book involves materials – ink & paper – but this doesn’t make the story material. May be you think stories are material. And just a thought, are lies material? I must confess I am dreading your answer.
yes, of course they are. Lies are states of the brain and so are material.
LGK

Warrington, UK

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#13427
Jan 29, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
To be material requires mass?
Of course you avoided my point:
1 - This red USB stick has a Batman game.
2 - This blue USB stick has a spreadsheet program.
3 - This green USB stick has family photos.
Hence we have definitive material locations for specific collections of 1's and 0's.
Materialism all the way, baby!
I don't where you learned how to do syllogism but I'm afraid the structure above is not one I recognise. You will have to excuse me but it doesn't seem to make any sense. Is it meant as a joke?
LGK

Warrington, UK

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#13428
Jan 29, 2012
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
The essay is physically in the *arrangement* of the materials on the USB. So it is based on material things. I see no relevance to your claim that it is massless.
<quoted text>
BS. Photons are material, physical things that obey the laws of physics.
<quoted text>
yes, of course they are. Lies are states of the brain and so are material.
Does the essay have mass; yes or no?

I won’t argue with photons & mass, like I said I expressed an OPINION which as you say could possibly be BS.

You have side-stepped 2 questions:

(1) Is a story in a book material?
(2)–[from an earlier post] because a prior mythical story of an “unsinkable” ship the Titan exists, does this mean the Titanic was also mythical?

Finally, you have asserted that lies are states of the brain – have you got evidence for this & what exactly is “a state of the brain?” I’m worried about such terms being used loosely so please explain. As a medic, I’m not aware of any work that can locate lies to a neural pathway, neurotransmitter etc. Are there any particular EEG changes or something?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

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#13429
Jan 29, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the essay have mass; yes or no?
I won’t argue with photons & mass, like I said I expressed an OPINION which as you say could possibly be BS.
You have side-stepped 2 questions:
(1) Is a story in a book material?
(2)–[from an earlier post] because a prior mythical story of an “unsinkable” ship the Titan exists, does this mean the Titanic was also mythical?
Finally, you have asserted that lies are states of the brain – have you got evidence for this & what exactly is “a state of the brain?” I’m worried about such terms being used loosely so please explain. As a medic, I’m not aware of any work that can locate lies to a neural pathway, neurotransmitter etc. Are there any particular EEG changes or something?
The bar is open. This may take a while.

“Pay it forward!”

Level 4

Since: Oct 09

Harrisburg

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#13430
Jan 30, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
...
Thank you for describing how Maths works but that was not my question. I asked which part of the rule 1 + 1 = 2 is material. Was this rule true before humans existed or did humans cause it? If humans discovered it surely it must have pre-dated them. You haven’t persuaded me rules are material & I am quite entitled to reasonably conclude that they are not.
...
The fact of 1 + 1 = 2 or the expression of 1 + 1 = 2?

Two different things ... humans use the language to say "one plus one equals two" in English, for example.

Try expressing the fact without language - using, of course, the material.
LGK

Rhuddlan, UK

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#13431
Jan 30, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I pointed out earlier you are the one equivocating properties with "rules". The rocks could be ghost-like and pass through everything, it doesn't matter. What matters is that "someone" set the rules for the rocks to be ghost-like, or hard, or whatever. Just as they did for grass being green, water to be wet, gravity to be... gravitic, and photons to travel 186,000 mps (except when your god changed the rules willynilly cuz the universe is only 6,000 years old). Now, if you want to say I equivocated "designed" and "rules" here, then perhaps, however the point being the words point to a "someone" who assigned the properties or rules to various phenomena when they 'created' them.
Rocks are not hard because a human set a rule for them to be so; I have heard all now. This is more grandiose than the IPCC legislating what temperature of the earth should to be. I’d really like to see you make a rule that rocks become ghost-like. I’m not being funny but is it going to be The Dude said “let rocks be soft” & it was so!

At the core of ALL of this is humans trying to be gods; it’s that simple & straight out of Lucifer’s five “I will bes ”–(Isaiah 14:12)

1) I will ascend to heaven
2) I will raise my throne above the stars of God
3) I will sit on the mount of congregation on the heights of Zaphon
4) I will ascend to the tops of the clouds
5) I will make myself like the Most High

Lucifer is a crafty character alright & has got a lot of folk taken in. As Sarah Palin would say, He’s misunderstimated.
LGK

Rhuddlan, UK

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#13432
Jan 30, 2012
 
SsixtytwoS wrote:
<quoted text>
The fact of 1 + 1 = 2 or the expression of 1 + 1 = 2?
Two different things ... humans use the language to say "one plus one equals two" in English, for example.
Try expressing the fact without language - using, of course, the material.
I'll be happy to express fact without language & using the material if you ask the question without language & using the material. So, in your own time please & I shall answer accordingly.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#13433
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
I won’t argue with whether the ideas in the essay exist in the essay or not. My simple point is that the essay is immaterial. To show that immaterial reality exists only one example is required the rest is just detail.
I know you won't argue the details, just like your code. So in order to proceed we have to accept your proclamation and that's that.

Well I don't.(shrug)
LGK wrote:
PDF converters, essays, Windows, spyware etc are examples of ONE entity – immaterial reality. If you successfully show that this is equivocation I could even call you a genius.
Your standards are low.
LGK wrote:
Yes, the essay CAN be fouled up with a magnet. This demonstrates that non-material reality can interact with non-material reality. Either way, non-material reality exists – that’s pretty obvious.
No, it demonstrates it's all material. That's pretty obvious to everyone that's not fundie.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#13434
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't where you learned how to do syllogism but I'm afraid the structure above is not one I recognise. You will have to excuse me but it doesn't seem to make any sense. Is it meant as a joke?
The joke's been on fundies from the beginning, didn't you know that?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#13435
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Does the essay have mass; yes or no?
I won’t argue with photons & mass, like I said I expressed an OPINION which as you say could possibly be BS.
You have side-stepped 2 questions:
(1) Is a story in a book material?
(2)–[from an earlier post] because a prior mythical story of an “unsinkable” ship the Titan exists, does this mean the Titanic was also mythical?
Finally, you have asserted that lies are states of the brain – have you got evidence for this & what exactly is “a state of the brain?” I’m worried about such terms being used loosely so please explain. As a medic, I’m not aware of any work that can locate lies to a neural pathway, neurotransmitter etc. Are there any particular EEG changes or something?
As a medic, there's no reason you should know.(shrug)

Perhaps someone with a little more know can explain some more, but I can tell you that certain brain activity occurs during some specific mental activities. For example, channelling aggressiveness activates certain neural branches.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#13436
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Rocks are not hard because a human set a rule for them to be so; I have heard all now. This is more grandiose than the IPCC legislating what temperature of the earth should to be. I’d really like to see you make a rule that rocks become ghost-like. I’m not being funny but is it going to be The Dude said “let rocks be soft” & it was so!
At the core of ALL of this is humans trying to be gods; it’s that simple & straight out of Lucifer’s five “I will bes ”–(Isaiah 14:12)
1) I will ascend to heaven
2) I will raise my throne above the stars of God
3) I will sit on the mount of congregation on the heights of Zaphon
4) I will ascend to the tops of the clouds
5) I will make myself like the Most High
Lucifer is a crafty character alright & has got a lot of folk taken in. As Sarah Palin would say, He’s misunderstimated.
But you're misunderstanding me. I never said humans could make up the rules of the universe. But if God wants ghost rocks (to be the rule), who are you to stop Him?
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

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#13437
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll be happy to express fact without language & using the material if you ask the question without language & using the material. So, in your own time please & I shall answer accordingly.
Unless you reach another impass and tell us that for discussion to proceed further we must accept your undemonstrated proclamations.
LGK

Abergele, UK

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#13438
Jan 31, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
Unless you reach another impass and tell us that for discussion to proceed further we must accept your undemonstrated proclamations.
If it’s OK for SsixtytwoS to use language then it’s only reasonable that I too use language. If bans are imposed this should apply both ways, bans too must be presented in non-language. Fair is far.
LGK

Abergele, UK

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#13439
Jan 31, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
But you're misunderstanding me. I never said humans could make up the rules of the universe. But if God wants ghost rocks (to be the rule), who are you to stop Him?
Please give me a natural rule, I take it you accept that the universe is natural, that has been made by humans. How are such human made rules enforced on the universe?

“Wear white at night.”

Since: Jun 09

Albuquerque

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#13440
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Please give me a natural rule, I take it you accept that the universe is natural, that has been made by humans. How are such human made rules enforced on the universe?
Gravity makes things fall. It is not a rule. It's just the way it is.
The Dude

Ellesmere Port, UK

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#13441
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Please give me a natural rule, I take it you accept that the universe is natural, that has been made by humans. How are such human made rules enforced on the universe?
I repeat, since you obviously should have gone to Specsavers:

I never said humans could make up the rules of the universe.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Level 8

Since: Apr 08

Tampa, FL

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#13442
Jan 31, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I repeat, since you obviously should have gone to Specsavers:
I never said humans could make up the rules of the universe.
It's a little game he likes to play. Rephrasing what someone else has said in order to make it sound silly. He thinks he's being clever. It gets tiresome.
LGK

Tilston, UK

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#13443
Jan 31, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
As a medic, there's no reason you should know.(shrug)
Perhaps someone with a little more know can explain some more, but I can tell you that certain brain activity occurs during some specific mental activities. For example, channelling aggressiveness activates certain neural branches.
I can tell you that there are no EEG changes that can be decoded into particular thoughts. Thank God.

I can also tell you that some parts of my iPod e.g. the screen light up a certain way when producing certain sounds. This is so specific that if it’s Beethoven playing, the LCD screen says “Beethoven.” But I do not believe for 1 second that Beethoven symphony is a material thing, it’s totally immaterial although it can be expressed via material objects.

I haven’t used the iPod thing to be facetious but to expose what’s concealed by fancy jargon & may lead to wrong conclusions e.g. nothing = something. I’ve seen structural & functional scans of people in various states. There's at present no way (except what you’d call a conspiracy theory**) precise sentences can be tied down to a specific brain activity. If anyone can prove the contrary I’m all ears. Until then, that specific brain parts light up in association with “certain states” is LESS informative than iPod displays. Guess what, whenever you speak your lips move. Are your ideas in your mouth? Of course not.

**Don’t ask!
LGK

Tilston, UK

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#13444
Jan 31, 2012
 
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
I repeat, since you obviously should have gone to Specsavers:
I never said humans could make up the rules of the universe.
That's OK & it clears up misunderstandings so we can move on. Good. Now seeing as the uinverse is full of rules & as you say none of them are Man-made, who made them?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#13445
Jan 31, 2012
 
LGK wrote:
<quoted text>
Please give me a natural rule, I take it you accept that the universe is natural, that has been made by humans. How are such human made rules enforced on the universe?
I accept that the universe is natural, but I have no idea why you think it was made by humans. The rules we discover are tentative ones that are made to help us explain the behaviors we see in the things around us.*Our* rules are not 'enforced'. They are descriptive of the patterns we see around us. The goal of science is to discover those patterns and explain them. The patterns are not made by humans. They are not enforced. They simply are.

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