Evolution 'not established truth'

Evolution 'not established truth'

There are 9177 comments on the GoErie.com story from May 30, 2008, titled Evolution 'not established truth'. In it, GoErie.com reports that:

Public schools should teach established truth. Evolution is not established truth.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at GoErie.com.

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Ray Ingles

Livonia, MI

#1 May 30, 2008
The problem with most 'creationist theories' is that they have already been disproved - they don't work. Finding oil is a very important and high-stakes issue for oil companies. Literally trillions of dollars are riding on it. Exxon's exploration budget alone is around $20 billion per year. When the chips are down and they need to find the most likely spots to drill - what kind of geology do they use? Flood geology, or mainstream? Which one actually delivers the goods?

Let's assume the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Where did the oil come from? Was it created in the ground with the rest of the Earth? If so, is there a way to predict where it might be found? Or perhaps it really did form from plankton (with a few plants and dinosaurs), but about 10,000 times faster than any chemist believes it could? Any way you look at it, a young Earth and a Flood would imply some very interesting scientific questions to ask, some interesting (and potentially extremely valuable) research programs to start. How come nobody's actually pursuing such research programs?

Why don't creationists put together an investment fund, where people pay in and the stake is used as venture capital for things like oil and mineral rights? If "Flood geology" is really a better theory, then it should make better predictions about where raw materials are than standard geology does. The profits from such a venture could pay for a lot of evangelism. Why isn't anyone doing this?
Dan in Missouri

Blue Springs, MO

#2 May 30, 2008
In Science, an "established truth" is called a theory. Theory is the highest regard for an idea that science can offer. Once a theory is accpepted by the public, it is commonly called a "natural law". But to scientists, it is still a theory.

In the case of evolution, 200 years of dedicated testing have yet to find a fault in the theory. Sure, some ideas around the edges are always challenged, and the theory is modified ever more slightly to fit new data. Nobel prizes are given out to those who manage to modify it in the slightest way.
Huh

Greenville, NC

#3 May 30, 2008
here here!
My name

Martinsburg, PA

#4 May 30, 2008
The letter writer does not understand what "theory" is in scientiffic terms. Evolution is an established theory, with a great deal of data do back it up.

Creationism and Intelligent Design, on the other hand, are not scientiffic theories.
classic095

Safety Harbor, FL

#5 May 30, 2008
A theory is just that a theory, an Idea that something is what it is due to many circustances, once the facts are gathered to substanciate that theory it becomes fact.

I have a theory that a flower comes from a seed, investigation through the entire process of a flower starting as a seed all the way through the process from the planting to the flowering establishes certain facts to turn my theory of seed to flower a reality therefor fact.

The fringe theories might be on how the seed roots, then how the flower develops. eventually the entire theory of seed to flower and why becomes fact.

In creationism there is not ONE fact to substanciate the claims. There is not ONE fact to substanciate a supreme creator. If someone could produce ONE undeniable FACT of a creator there would be a bunch of converts.

The only thing I have ever heard was "Its in the bible" therefore it must be true.. NO! the bible is not undeniable FACTS.

“Dor sho gha!”

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Iowa City, IA

#6 May 30, 2008
Again, I will make my point:

If you feel Creationism should be taught, that is fine. However, it has no place in science classes in public schools. There are plenty of private and parochial schools that will push that garbage, if you are really that frigging concerned with it.

Besides, what is there to teach about Creationism? "God used his magic to create everything, don't question it or you will go to hell."

Then again, people used to say the same thing about the Earth being flat, the sun orbiting the Earth...
Guy down the street

Ashtabula, OH

#7 May 30, 2008
Hey, bible thumpers, guess what? Gravity is still a theory. Should we stop teaching this topic?
Huh

Greenville, NC

#8 May 30, 2008
i wouldnt call it a theory... id call it a fact if you drop a big rock above your toe its going to fall and hit it and hurt alot.
Fossil Bob

Urbana, IL

#9 May 30, 2008
Ray Ingles wrote:
The problem with most 'creationist theories' is that they have already been disproved - they don't work. Finding oil is a very important and high-stakes issue for oil companies. Literally trillions of dollars are riding on it. Exxon's exploration budget alone is around $20 billion per year. When the chips are down and they need to find the most likely spots to drill - what kind of geology do they use? Flood geology, or mainstream? Which one actually delivers the goods?
Let's assume the Earth is only a few thousand years old. Where did the oil come from? Was it created in the ground with the rest of the Earth? If so, is there a way to predict where it might be found? Or perhaps it really did form from plankton (with a few plants and dinosaurs), but about 10,000 times faster than any chemist believes it could? Any way you look at it, a young Earth and a Flood would imply some very interesting scientific questions to ask, some interesting (and potentially extremely valuable) research programs to start. How come nobody's actually pursuing such research programs?
Why don't creationists put together an investment fund, where people pay in and the stake is used as venture capital for things like oil and mineral rights? If "Flood geology" is really a better theory, then it should make better predictions about where raw materials are than standard geology does. The profits from such a venture could pay for a lot of evangelism. Why isn't anyone doing this?
Exactly...!

Since: May 08

Halifax, Canada

#10 May 30, 2008
Huh wrote:
i wouldnt call it a theory... id call it a fact if you drop a big rock above your toe its going to fall and hit it and hurt alot.
That's the point. Gravity IS a theory, in the same way that evolution is a theory. Gravity is also a fact, in the same way that evolution is a fact.

In science, the word "theory" has a precise meaning that is quite different from its everyday use as a synonym for guess or hunch. To say that something is "just a theory" is nonsensical in the context of science.
The Dude

UK

#11 May 30, 2008
Dennis M. Kudlak

>>>"Some creationist theories and/or intelligent-design theories that harmonize science and faith would also then be included in the general survey of theories.

Our nation was founded on truth and on God.

God should not be excluded from our nation's schools as the source of truth."

But ID is about SCIENCE, not religion. Nosiree-bob. It's just them lying atheist Darwinists who say it is.

Problem is, Dennis, is that "truth" is subjective.(Just ask 'truth'- no, actually don't). Evolution may not be established "truth", but it is established fact. To paraphrase:

"Science is the search for FACT - not "TRUTH". If it's "truth" you're interested in, Dr Tyree's philosophy class is right down the hall."

“Turning coffee into theorems”

Since: Dec 06

Trapped inside a Klein Bottle

#12 May 30, 2008
Ray Ingles wrote:
Why don't creationists put together an investment fund, where people pay in and the stake is used as venture capital for things like oil and mineral rights? If "Flood geology" is really a better theory, then it should make better predictions about where raw materials are than standard geology does. The profits from such a venture could pay for a lot of evangelism. Why isn't anyone doing this?
About a year ago I did read about a group that was trying to raise money to search for oil in Israel. For some weird religious reasons, they thought that they would succeed.

However, they were having a hard time raising venture capital. From what I read, they were going to fundamentalist churches to raise the cash.

“Dor sho gha!”

Level 1

Since: Apr 08

Iowa City, IA

#13 May 30, 2008
Huh wrote:
i wouldnt call it a theory... id call it a fact if you drop a big rock above your toe its going to fall and hit it and hurt alot.
And why does the rock fall and not stay above your foot?

That's right, the Theory of Gravity.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#14 May 30, 2008
classic095 wrote:
A theory is just that a theory, an Idea that something is what it is due to many circustances, once the facts are gathered to substanciate that theory it becomes fact.
I have a theory that a flower comes from a seed, investigation through the entire process of a flower starting as a seed all the way through the process from the planting to the flowering establishes certain facts to turn my theory of seed to flower a reality therefor fact.
The fringe theories might be on how the seed roots, then how the flower develops. eventually the entire theory of seed to flower and why becomes fact.
In creationism there is not ONE fact to substanciate the claims. There is not ONE fact to substanciate a supreme creator. If someone could produce ONE undeniable FACT of a creator there would be a bunch of converts.
The only thing I have ever heard was "Its in the bible" therefore it must be true.. NO! the bible is not undeniable FACTS.
Actually there is a difference between 'theory' and 'fact'. You find it easier to look at it like this:

Evolution is a fact, life has changed over time. You can compare this to Gravity being a fact because things fall down.

Facts of observable and repeatable events and the evidence that shows that these things do happen and have happened.

The Theory of Evolution is the explanation of how life has changed. In other words the theory explains the fact -- just like the Theory of Gravity explains the how's of things falling down.

Scientific theories are the current best explanation of an observable phenomena based on the evidence.

I think this is what you said, but just expressed differently.
abb3w

Wytheville, VA

#15 May 30, 2008
Unfortunately for Mr. Kudlak's idea, no "truth" in the realm of science is ever absolutely "established", be it Evolution, Gravity, or that the Earth is more Round than Flat. At best, such statements are merely proven on a "most probably true" basis.

Mr. Kudlak's use of the word "theory" is not the formal scientific sense, but a colloquial one roughly synonymous with science's use of "hypothesis". Those with an interest in their own education may examine Florida's recently adopted Science standards ( FLDOESTEM.org ), benchmarks SC.3.N.3.1, SC.6.N.3.1, and SC.912.N.3.1 in particular. Intelligent Design does not qualify as "Theory".

TedHOhio: strictly speaking, what are colloquially called "facts" are more accurately referred to in science as "data"; a datum being an individual isolated observation. An excellent analogy, however; I plan to steal it for future use.=)

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Van Nuys, CA

#16 May 30, 2008
Huh wrote:
i wouldnt call it a theory... id call it a fact if you drop a big rock above your toe its going to fall and hit it and hurt alot.
Yes, that will happen. That is "Gravity: The Fact".
WHY will it happen? That is "Gravity: The Theory".

Populations change over time. "Evolution: The Fact".
WHY do populations change over time? "Evolution: the Theory".
Ken

Ashtabula, OH

#17 Jun 1, 2008
It took me awhile to understand myself first; then I started to teach by example (I find as the best way). The answers we seek are inside us all; I'm always learning but cautious as to what and who is trying to teach (sharing, nothing else). I prayed and asked for guidance, I then stareted to listen and focus real hard....all of a sudden the answers started popping up all over (we're all different)....complete trust and faith in God as well as doing for myself, God will never let anyone down all we have to do is allow ourself to ask His help, pray, listen and focus.... only GOD can teach "others" as He has us. WE just have to leave some things With GOD. GOD works in mysterious ways... HIS wonders to perform. It's that simple. I hope I helped. LOL

Since: May 08

Halifax, Canada

#18 Jun 1, 2008
Ken wrote:
The answers we seek are inside us all ...
I disagree ... the answers I was looking for were NOT all inside of me. They required thousands of hours of study and work ... and will require much more throughout the rest of my life. Mere navel-gazing won't cut it.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Van Nuys, CA

#19 Jun 1, 2008
Ken wrote:
...God will never let anyone down...
Translation: "If something bad happens to you, you deserved it."

"But what if I didn't deserve it? Why did God destroy ONLY the most religious parts of New Orleans and left the hedonistic parts high and dry?"
Ken wrote:
...GOD works in mysterious ways...
Oh, I see. So your "logic" here runs something like this:

Anything good is evidence of God. Anything bad is evidence that God doesn't always act the way we expect.

Uh huh.

Try this:

"The Christian God (if the Bible is to be believed) deliberately murdered millions of innocent children out of profound laziness."

Mysterious ways indeed.
Ken

Ashtabula, OH

#20 Jun 1, 2008
ZekeCDN wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree ... the answers I was looking for were NOT all inside of me. They required thousands of hours of study and work ... and will require much more throughout the rest of my life. Mere navel-gazing won't cut it.
I also stated and I quote, "as well as doing for myself". LOL

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