New Theory of Evolution: Apes devolve...

New Theory of Evolution: Apes devolved from Humans

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supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#1 Oct 2, 2007
I would just like to call everyone's attention to a new book out called "The Upright Ape" by Aaron Filler. I just received it in the mail a couple days ago and have not had a chance to read every page, but I've been able to read enough to get the gist his new theory as to where and what humans came from.

You evolutionists know how you've been telling everyone for all these years how we humans came from tree-swinging, knuckle-walking chimpanzee-type apes? You can throw that nonsense out the window. According to this guy, it's the other way around. See, according to the fossil evidence, bones that are either human, or indistinguishable from human, have been unearthed from places that no such bones should be unearthed. There are many such examples in the book, but I'll quote from the preface:

"In part, this book details what I have discovered since the day in 1981 when David Pilbeam placed in my hands the problem of explaining a seemingly inexplicable 21-million-year-old fossil. This bone had the totally unique features found in humans, but it was from a creature that lived 15 million years too soon. There should not have been anything that looked like this until the human-chimp split 6 million years ago. I believe this conundrum can be explained, but Darwinian Evolutionary Theory as it now stands cannot provide everything that is required to explain it." Pg. 9

So, in other words, human bones were found in the same strata as other supposedly 21 million year old creatures. Any normal person would take from this that maybe -- just maybe -- that "strata" was not layed down slowly, over a course of millions of years, but maybe in one catastrophic event -- say, oh I don't know -- like A FLOOD, or something weird like that.

But no. Instead of assuming catastrophic geology, this guy just transforms the theory to make it fit...and in the meantime dumps out 50 years of paleontology and anthropology in the waste basket.
And this guy doesn't mince words. Here are his conclusions:

"It is a widely held position among anthropologists who study Australopithecus and Homo that upright bipedalism must have arisen from a quadrupedal common ancestor with the chimpanzee. However, there is no definitive fossil evidence at all for this position. All the evidence, which is reviewed in detail in the following chapter, actually appears to point the other way when it is fully and fairly considered. Certainly, some theoretical models and historical views exist that predate our fossil discoveries and thus support a quadrupedal ancestor for the so-called hominine lineage of human ancestors......However, the evidence form the fossil record and the evidence from our understanding of lineage relationships has failed to support these positions in any definitive way. The time has come fro the specialists involved to sagely put aside four decades of hypotheses based solely on the quadrupedal ancestor."

(next paragraph)...."there is clearly absolutely no basis for insisting that a primarily upright bipedal last common ancestor could not have been present a virtually every branch point that leads away from our own hominiform lineage. The fact is that a quadrupedal ancestor for the hominines remains to be proven."

(next paragraph) "There is just no way to deny the mounting evidence from anatomy, genetics, embryology, and paleontology. Almost certainly, the ancestor shared by the quadrupedal apes and the bipedal humans was itself an upright biped." pg. 222

to be continued...
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#2 Oct 2, 2007
continued...

Finally, in the very last paragraph of the book, he sums it up:
"The first upright ape was also human. In the millions of years that followed, new species branched off and abandoned their upright posture to descend to what we now call "ape." pg. 260
See, if ToE was actually falsifiable, people like this dude wouldn't have to make up stories that wreak of stupidity in order to justify the fossil evidence. And speaking of fossil evidence, isn't it funny how the decades we were told by scientists that the fossils showed a progression from knuckle-walking apes to humans? Now we know, however, that this is nothing but a fairytale.

http://www.amazon.com/Upright-Ape-New-Origin-...

Since: Apr 07

Evergreen, CO

#3 Oct 2, 2007
Sorry SS,

You're "the boy who cried wolf".

You're the little fibbing boy that no one believes anymore.

You're Eddie Haskell (for those old enough to remember).

You've lied about your motives. You've lied about your interest in Evolution.

You've wasted everyone's time. Over & over & over again.

In case any of you haven't followed the unraveling story of SS, he simply posts to generate hate & discontent.

He doesn't believe the things he posts. I doubt that he believes anything in this post.

He is simply a troll.

You spent your credibility, SS.

tk
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#4 Oct 2, 2007
You know what? I don't care what you think...I could care less, in fact. The author's words speak for themselves.
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#5 Oct 2, 2007
amazing...I post this thing several hours ago -- and all I get is a personal insult. No responses from evolutionists. No intelligent response. No debate. No defense of their evolutionist brethren fibbing about the fossil record for decades. Nothing....and that's about all Toe is good for -- nothing.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Level 2

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#6 Oct 2, 2007
Hear, Hear TK.

*hoists a stein in salute*
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#7 Oct 2, 2007
You know the opposition is in trouble when they resort to mindless blabber and personal insults.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Los Angeles, CA

#8 Oct 2, 2007
supersport wrote:
amazing...I post this thing several hours ago -- No responses from evolutionists.
Dude, it's the start of a new TV season. I'm checking out the premeires.

I notice you didn't respond to my thread about creationist reasoning...

Since: Apr 07

Evergreen, CO

#9 Oct 2, 2007
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
Hear, Hear TK.
*hoists a stein in salute*
Bob,

I hope that stein is filled with GOOD beer.

SS,

Sorry, SS. There's an unstated contract when a person chooses to engage in conversation. The contract says that neither person will be deceitful or perversely argumentative. Nor will they simply lie.

You violated that contract. You're not worth the time or effort to engage in conversation. Because there NEVER was a CONversation in the first place. It was simply sequential posturing, and inflammatory nonsense.

Oh, yeah. I don't want to forget the frequent cock-of-the-walk self-congratulatory announcements of your (imaginary) victories over the forces of evil evolution.

Get used to the sounds of no response.

Your bed. Rest comfortably.

tk

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Los Angeles, CA

#10 Oct 2, 2007
supersport wrote:
...See, if ToE was actually falsifiable, people like this dude wouldn't have to make up stories that wreak of stupidity in order to justify the fossil evidence. And speaking of fossil evidence, isn't it funny how the decades we were told by scientists that the fossils showed a progression from knuckle-walking apes to humans? Now we know, however, that this is nothing but a fairytale.
SS, I read your posts twice, and I'm not entirely sure I follow your reasoning.

Are you saying the evidence in this book IS to be believed or IS NOT to be believed?

You reference this "21 million year old fossil" in a way that makes be think that you feel it is believable.

But, your conclusion seems to be that the author of the book is making it all up.

So, what gives?
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#11 Oct 2, 2007
I'm saying science has no idea which animal evolved from which -- or even if evolution happened at all. Science has been telling us for decades that the fossil evidence shows that humans evolved from apes -- now it's come out that the fossil record shows the opposite -- that apes evolved from humans.....the fossil evidence, according to this guys shows that human bones, or bones indistinguishable from humans, are found in certain layers of the earth that would indicate an age of over 20 million years. This fact lead the author to conclude that knucklewalkers must have evolved from humans or human-like creatures with our same body-style as ours.

He is forceful in his conclusion that there is no fossil evidence for ape-to-human evolution.

This is evidence that science has no clue.

personally I think it's all a complete farce.

Level 7

Since: Sep 07

Los Angeles, CA

#12 Oct 2, 2007
supersport wrote:
I'm saying science has no idea which animal evolved from which -- or even if evolution happened at all. Science has been telling us for decades that the fossil evidence shows that humans evolved from apes -- now it's come out that the fossil record shows the opposite -- that apes evolved from humans.....the fossil evidence, according to this guy...
So, the premise of your argument is that this guy's opinion carries the equal amount of weight as all of the rest of silence.

I assume that you grant the same power to any individual with a published book.

So, for example, if one of us was to present you with a single book by a single author saying "Jesus never existed", you would have to conclude that all religeous scholars up to this point have been proven wrong?

“blow it out your bagpipes”

Since: Dec 06

Salford, Manchester UK

#13 Oct 2, 2007
supersport wrote:
I'm saying science has no idea which animal evolved from which -- or even if evolution happened at all. Science has been telling us for decades that the fossil evidence shows that humans evolved from apes -- now it's come out that the fossil record shows the opposite -- that apes evolved from humans.....the fossil evidence, according to this guys shows that human bones, or bones indistinguishable from humans, are found in certain layers of the earth that would indicate an age of over 20 million years. This fact lead the author to conclude that knucklewalkers must have evolved from humans or human-like creatures with our same body-style as ours.
He is forceful in his conclusion that there is no fossil evidence for ape-to-human evolution.
This is evidence that science has no clue.
personally I think it's all a complete farce.
So...you admit to not having read all of the book, yet you are able to make these claims with your brilliant powers of observation. What a fascinatingly narrow little world you must live in. Too bad no one buy it but you.
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#14 Oct 3, 2007
so are you evolutionists embarrased that you ever believed something so dumb that you came from kunckle-walkers?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Level 2

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#15 Oct 3, 2007
supersport wrote:
so are you evolutionists embarrased that you ever believed something so dumb that you came from kunckle-walkers?
No.

In a way, I'm embarrased for YOU.

You, who now ADMITS to having been banned from CARM-- the Christian Apologetics Ministries.

One of THE MOST tolerant forums on the 'net, when it comes to believers and such.

Yet-- YOU managed to get yourself banned.

The ONLY reason you haven't been banned on Topix, is that, so far, you haven't stooped to racial slurs and threats of violence.

Yet.

Time will tell....
Fossil Bob

Urbana, IL

#16 Oct 3, 2007
supersport wrote:
He is forceful in his conclusion that there is no fossil evidence for ape-to-human evolution.
This is evidence that science has no clue.
personally I think it's all a complete farce.
I'd give him the same credibility I give you...
supersport

Fort Worth, TX

#17 Oct 3, 2007
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
In a way, I'm embarrased for YOU.
You, who now ADMITS to having been banned from CARM-- the Christian Apologetics Ministries.
One of THE MOST tolerant forums on the 'net, when it comes to believers and such.
Yet-- YOU managed to get yourself banned.
The ONLY reason you haven't been banned on Topix, is that, so far, you haven't stooped to racial slurs and threats of violence.
Yet.
Time will tell....
I'm not banned from Carm. Come on over, let's debate -- I have a new thread up called "Tripping the Philosophical Fantasic."

Since: Apr 07

Evergreen, CO

#18 Oct 3, 2007
One of the best things about science is its willing truthfulness (in most cases). And forced truthfulness (in all the rest).

You just cannot get away with lying. For more than a short period. The vast majority of scientists embrace this as a great thing.

Every once in awhile, one crosses the border into lying about his methods or results. These guys are almost always 3rd rate scientists who could not have made it on their own merits.

Whenever this happens, the media make a GIANT deal about it. As though, without the media, the guy would have gotten away with it. NOTHING could be further from the truth. Because, to the media, the fact that a guy lied 1 or 5 or 20 years ago is old news, and not an issue today. In science, once you lie, you're an outcast forever.

When I started responding to, and learning about the ID / Creationist movement, I was absolutely STUNNED with the constant stream of lying that is its foundation. NOT on the part of the credulous masses, the rank & file believers. But on the part of those who direct the movement.

The Wedge document is a prime, and frightening, example.

Authored, not by a scientist, but by Phillip E Johnson, a born again christian LAWYER, the purpose of the document is downright terrifying:

[from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_document ]

"The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Institute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Institute manifesto known as the Wedge Document, which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda whose ultimate goal is to "defeat [scientific] materialism" represented by evolution, "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions" and to "affirm the reality of God." Its goal is to "renew" American culture by shaping public policy to reflect conservative Christian values.

A sense of the honest & integrity of its originators at the Discovery Institute is encompassed in the facts that (1) it was originally "marked 'Top Secret' and 'Not For Distribution'",(2) although they have acknowledged authorship now, the DI initially LIED and denied ownership and (3) they STILL LIE to people by claiming "Conspircay [sic] theorists in the media continue to recycle the urban legend of the 'Wedge' document".

[End Part 1]

Since: Apr 07

Evergreen, CO

#19 Oct 3, 2007
[Part 2]

It is NOT POSSIBLE to get sleazier than this. This goes far, FAR beyond the excesses & evils of the Popes & other religious leaders who merely tortured, murdered or imprisoned scientists whose studies were perceived as threatening to the power & influence of the church.

Obviously it does NOT exceed those earlier incidents in harm caused to the scientists. Except in a very few cases, scientists are not burned at the stake or conviced of blasphemy anymore.

However, today's treachery (by folks like the DI) DOES far exceed the evil of those earlier cases in a very important way. Today, we have seen several hundred years of revealed truth & knowledge about the world by the methods of science. Knowledge completely inaccessible by religion.

In the early days, the fact that science (uncompromised by religious meddling) would turn out to be such a successful path to knowledge was not yet evident.

Today, it is evident. And yet, lying bastards at the DI & elsewhere are STILL willing to twist any truth, mislead, obfuscate, and stoop to any trick or deception in order to discredit "materialistic" science.

So that they can grab back some of the power over society that they lost after the Dark Ages.

And SS, I don't give a rats ass what you do for a living. You may be a slumlord or you may manage reasonable properties in a reasonable manner.

But you have zero knowledge or understanding about evolution. You traffic in deceit. You have zero interest in an open and honest exchange of ideas. You don't even believe the crap that you beshit upon the blogosphere.

And everything in the paragraph above is BY YOUR OWN ADMISSION!

And THAT is what makes you a lying scumbag. And a true & revealing representative of the deceptive methods and evil purposes of the movement you so enthusiastically serve.

Congrats on your choice of a terrific hobby...

tk

“Transitional Molecular Fossils”

Since: Dec 06

Somewhere in Penn's Woods

#20 Oct 3, 2007
supersport wrote:
I'm saying science has no idea which animal evolved from which -- or even if evolution happened at all. Science has been telling us for decades that the fossil evidence shows that humans evolved from apes -- now it's come out that the fossil record shows the opposite -- that apes evolved from humans.....the fossil evidence, according to this guys shows that human bones, or bones indistinguishable from humans, are found in certain layers of the earth that would indicate an age of over 20 million years. This fact lead the author to conclude that knucklewalkers must have evolved from humans or human-like creatures with our same body-style as ours.
He is forceful in his conclusion that there is no fossil evidence for ape-to-human evolution.
This is evidence that science has no clue.
personally I think it's all a complete farce.
If this were the case then chimps, gorillas and orangutans would have 23 pairs of chromosomes and humans would have 24.

That is not the case though. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes; the chimp has 24 (gorillas and orangutans also have 24 pairs like the chimp). The difference in the number appears to be the consequence of two ancestral chromosomes fusing together to form chromosome number 2 in humans.

To review, chromosomes are made up of two parts called arms. They are joined by something called a centromere, which is the pinched or narrow area between the arms. The short arm of the chromosome is called p (petite or small); the long arm is called q because q follows p. The p arm is always on top and the arms are what contain the genes.

At the end of the Human Genome Project they were able to pinpoint the exact location where the fusion occurred. Special sequences occur at the tips of all primate chromosomes and those sequences do not occur elsewhere. Now where we have chromosome number 2, primates have one extra chromosome (for clarity’s sake we will call them chromosome 2a and 2b). They have proof that 2a and 2b fused together to make chromosome 2 in humans because that special primate sequence (remember, it occurs at the tips of the primate chromosomes) is found along the long arm (q) of chromosome number 2 in humans (which is right in the middle of chromosome number 2, remember the short arm p, is on top, comes first, then it is joined by the q arm at the centromere).

So, this special sequence, which is only found on the tips of primate chromosomes, is found right in the middle of our fused second chromosome!!!!

Again, irrefutable proof that we both shared a common ancestor in the distant past, and that apes did not "Devolve from humans".

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