Flight feathers, easiest disproof of ...

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#21 Jan 21, 2014
DarwinPaul wrote:
Chuckles Darwin said:
"If it could be exhibited that any complex organ was, which could not maybe have been organised by numerous, successive, little adjustments, my theory would utterly break down."
Aside from the part you posted bearing little resemblance to his actual words, why the need to leave off the last line of that quote? oooh, that's right... his actual words don't support your claims. When you MUST lie to support your claim, you;ve already shown your claim to be bullshyt.

The ACTUAL quote:

"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find out no such case."

(about 1/2 way through chapter 6, first edition)
Charles Darwin, The Origin of the Species
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#22 Jan 21, 2014
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>Aside from the part you posted bearing little resemblance to his actual words, why the need to leave off the last line of that quote? oooh, that's right... his actual words don't support your claims. When you MUST lie to support your claim, you;ve already shown your claim to be bullshyt.
The ACTUAL quote:
"If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down. But I can find out no such case."
(about 1/2 way through chapter 6, first edition)
Charles Darwin, The Origin of the Species
To be fair to our teenage idiot, most "Christian" anti-science sites leave off the final line of Darwin's quote, usually because they have copied it that way from the original quote-miner, which I believe was a group of Jehovah's Witnesses in the 1970s who spent a lot of time combing the scientific literature to find quotes they could deceptively twist.

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#23 Jan 21, 2014
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
To be fair to our teenage idiot, most "Christian" anti-science sites leave off the final line of Darwin's quote, usually because they have copied it that way from the original quote-miner, which I believe was a group of Jehovah's Witnesses in the 1970s who spent a lot of time combing the scientific literature to find quotes they could deceptively twist.
With it being so easy to to show them how they are lying, it's a wonder that they still do it. It's almost as though they think we're just as stupid as they choose to be.
Gillette

Fairfield, IA

#24 Jan 21, 2014
TerryL wrote:
<quoted text>With it being so easy to to show them how they are lying, it's a wonder that they still do it. It's almost as though they think we're just as stupid as they choose to be.
I don't think "they think" all that much, to tell you the truth.:)

“Leave That Thing Alone!”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#25 Jan 21, 2014
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think "they think" all that much, to tell you the truth.:)
Well... it's definitely not their strong suit
DarwinPaul

Houston, TX

#26 Jan 25, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
sort of true. Recent researcch show gene activitation (via mainly hormone exposure), more so than the genes themselves, determine romantic/sexual attraction.
There is no means to reverse this process at least at this time.
Learn to deal with people being different from (or simillar to) you.
You mean recent agenda driven politicized research. As Plato said your culture is given to you and the culture of those just becoming sexually aware is dripping with homosexuality courtesy of media and government.

hail the Charles Martel of our times, hail Putin!

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#27 Jan 25, 2014
DarwinPaul wrote:
<quoted text>You mean recent agenda driven politicized research. As Plato said your culture is given to you and the culture of those just becoming sexually aware is dripping with homosexuality courtesy of media and government.

hail the Charles Martel of our times, hail Putin!
Please provide a link to that Plato "quote".

I have my doubts.

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#28 Jan 25, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Please provide a link to that Plato "quote".
I have my doubts.
Even if he did provide a link and it was from a site that you did not approve of it would not matter for you would not except it. There is never going to be a happy medium or a site you all can agree on and accept as equal on the terms that you disagree on.

It is all just a bunch of BS from both sides trying to out-do the other, both trying to prove right and wrong. We are all going to die regardless if anyone believes in God or Evolution.

My question to you all is that we only have this one life and we all can agree it is limited. So what do you hope to accomplish by posting here for many many days and hours when it really does not matter for neither of you will ever convert anyone to your side of your beliefs.

I will admit I come here because I get bored and most times I think both sides are full of crap so I just join in the game to pass a little time and to have a little fun but there seem to be many here that not only take it seriously, but really think they are making a difference. That just makes me WTF! Really!

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#29 Jan 26, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if he did provide a link and it was from a site that you did not approve of it would not matter for you would not except it. There is never going to be a happy medium or a site you all can agree on and accept as equal on the terms that you disagree on.
It is all just a bunch of BS from both sides trying to out-do the other, both trying to prove right and wrong. We are all going to die regardless if anyone believes in God or Evolution.
My question to you all is that we only have this one life and we all can agree it is limited. So what do you hope to accomplish by posting here for many many days and hours when it really does not matter for neither of you will ever convert anyone to your side of your beliefs.
I will admit I come here because I get bored and most times I think both sides are full of crap so I just join in the game to pass a little time and to have a little fun but there seem to be many here that not only take it seriously, but really think they are making a difference. That just makes me WTF! Really!
As usual, someone like DP makes a claim that feathers disprove evolution, then other posters provide links and explanation showing this is not the case.

Then you come along and pretend both sides are equivalent.

I asked you before and you ran for the hills in avoiding an answer.

Just show us the equivalent list of lies and quote mines and failures of logic on the part of the evolution "side" (i.e. the science) that comes close to matching the BS that the creationists have offered. You have been here long enough now to know that you cannot.

So stop kidding yourself.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#30 Jan 26, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if he did provide a link and it was from a site that you did not approve of it would not matter for you would not except it.
And BTW I never dispute links based on the website they come from.

I dispute them when they show bad science, and I say why the science is bad too.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#31 Jan 26, 2014
Juan wrote:
<quoted text>
No you have utterly failed to PROVE evolution. All your types ever say is your right without proof.
Merging of different species, genus, orders, classes, and phyla is a core prediction of evolution with common ancestry, and its found throughout the fossil record.

In the case linked, we see a therapod dinosaur showing a feature that looks like a very early form of feather. Evolution predicts that feathers are not something that would suddenly emerge in their current complex state but develop in stages from earlier, simpler antecedents.

Now we see those antecedents in the fossils.

The class of creatures called birds today merges with the class of creatures known as dinosaurs. We have 30+ different specimens of dino / birds that blur the boundary.

That evidence supports evolution.

All the evidence we have ever found supports evolution.

Theories in science are not proven the way 2+3=5 is proven. They are proven beyond reasonable doubt by weight of evidence, especially if the evidence agrees with the predictions that the theory made. That is as true of evolution as it is for every other well established theory in science.

“I am Sisyphus”

Since: Nov 07

Location hidden

#32 Jan 26, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if he did provide a link and it was from a site that you did not approve of it would not matter for you would not except it.

Why would he not accept it as long as it was not a quote-mine, which you must admit creationists do a lot of.
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text> There is never going to be a happy medium or a site you all can agree on and accept as equal on the terms that you disagree on.

I don't think any of the science gang have problems with any standard reference sites. No, we are not going to take creation.com seriously but that is from years of being exposed to it, not an a priori judgement.
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text> It is all just a bunch of BS from both sides trying to out-do the other, both trying to prove right and wrong. We are all going to die regardless if anyone believes in God or Evolution.

So enjoy the ride.
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text> My question to you all is that we only have this one life and we all can agree it is limited. So what do you hope to accomplish by posting here for many many days and hours when it really does not matter for neither of you will ever convert anyone to your side of your beliefs.

Conversions are rare and not really the issue. It is just fund to argue. We have more people on the science side here because it is more fun to argue when you get to win all the time.
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text> I will admit I come here because I get bored and most times I think both sides are full of crap so I just join in the game to pass a little time and to have a little fun but there seem to be many here that not only take it seriously, but really think they are making a difference. That just makes me WTF! Really!

You could also come here to learn. Some of the posts actually contain good information in them. Even the creationists occasionally get a point. Okay, not often, but it sometimes happens.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#33 Jan 26, 2014
DarwinPaul wrote:
<quoted text>
You mean recent agenda driven politicized research. As Plato said your culture is given to you and the culture of those just becoming sexually aware is dripping with homosexuality courtesy of media and government.
hail the Charles Martel of our times, hail Putin!
So you have not withdrawn your Plato "quote" above. As an aside, Plato had a problem with "media"? Really? "MEDIA"?

I had no idea that the MEDIA was such a factor in ancient Greece.[/sarcasm]

I *DID* find this quote about homosexuality from Plato, however:

"Homosexuality, is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce."

http://www.searchquotes.com/quotation/Homosex...

Level 9

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#34 Jan 26, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
So you have not withdrawn your Plato "quote" above. As an aside, Plato had a problem with "media"? Really? "MEDIA"?
I had no idea that the MEDIA was such a factor in ancient Greece.[/sarcasm]
I *DID* find this quote about homosexuality from Plato, however:
"Homosexuality, is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce."
http://www.searchquotes.com/quotation/Homosex...
And your quote proves his point.

FOX News is not known for its pro-homosexual stance. Plato would definitely have problems with that particular media :^ D

“It is what it is”

Level 5

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#35 Jan 26, 2014
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>You could also come here to learn. Some of the posts actually contain good information in them. Even the creationists occasionally get a point. Okay, not often, but it sometimes happens.
One thing I have learned here is that if God himself came down there are still many that would still believe God is a myth and a lie. Same as if science somehow proved there was not a God many would still think science is wrong and they would still believe in God.

Point being many are so set in there ways of either there is A God or there isn't a God that nothing will ever change their mind.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#36 Jan 26, 2014
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
So you have not withdrawn your Plato "quote" above. As an aside, Plato had a problem with "media"? Really? "MEDIA"?
I had no idea that the MEDIA was such a factor in ancient Greece.[/sarcasm]
I *DID* find this quote about homosexuality from Plato, however:
"Homosexuality, is regarded as shameful by barbarians and by those who live under despotic governments just as philosophy is regarded as shameful by them, because it is apparently not in the interest of such rulers to have great ideas engendered in their subjects, or powerful friendships or passionate love-all of which homosexuality is particularly apt to produce."
http://www.searchquotes.com/quotation/Homosex...
Yeah the lamestream media like CNN and MSNBC were tough on Plato. He didn't like the New York Times either.

“Do not bend, fold, staple or”

Level 9

Since: Jan 11

mutilate. Point down range.

#37 Jan 26, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing I have learned here is that if God himself came down there are still many that would still believe God is a myth and a lie. Same as if science somehow proved there was not a God many would still think science is wrong and they would still believe in God.
Point being many are so set in there ways of either there is A God or there isn't a God that nothing will ever change their mind.
Science isn't going to attempt and doesn't have the means to show God's existence or non-existence. This myth is perpetuated by the fundamentalist belief that science is anti-God/anti-religion.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#38 Jan 27, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing I have learned here is that if God himself came down there are still many that would still believe God is a myth and a lie. Same as if science somehow proved there was not a God many would still think science is wrong and they would still believe in God.
Point being many are so set in there ways of either there is A God or there isn't a God that nothing will ever change their mind.
...and if God *DID* come down here, and explain that Science got the whole "Creation" thing mostly correct, and that the Genesis account was a bunch of ignorant nonsense, Fundies everywhere would deny God to his face, in favor of a book written by ancient, superstitious nomads.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#39 Jan 27, 2014
replaytime wrote:
Even if he did provide a link and it was from a site that you did not approve of it would not matter for you would not except it.
Wrong. We would accept it if it was GENUINE. And THEN we would examine the claims of the quote in the correct context.

But for some reason, even though fundies are CONSTANTLY getting caught quotemining you still give them the benefit of the doubt, while dismiss us mean old evo's just cuz we're "mean".
replaytime wrote:
There is never going to be a happy medium or a site you all can agree on and accept as equal on the terms that you disagree on.
It is all just a bunch of BS from both sides trying to out-do the other, both trying to prove right and wrong.
Actually this is not the case. The fundies already lost before they got here. Most of the arguments they use were debunked before they were even born. But that doesn't stop 'em because they never learn.

All we do is present reality as it is, and the reality deniers don't like it. Reality doesn't care.
replaytime wrote:
We are all going to die regardless if anyone believes in God or Evolution.
Yup.

You seem to be obsessed with death lately, something up? If so, don't bring it here since we're long past the point of caring now. I know someone who's just found out they're going to ANOTHER funeral. I'm tellin' ya it's like that movie Final Destination. So you think YOU got it bad? Cuz I'm in SERIOUS fear of my life because at some point I GOTTA be next - they just can't know THAT many people. It's destiny! Or the devil. I can't remember, it was a while since I saw it. But Tony Todd's always cool.
replaytime wrote:
My question to you all is that we only have this one life and we all can agree it is limited. So what do you hope to accomplish by posting here for many many days and hours when it really does not matter for neither of you will ever convert anyone to your side of your beliefs.
No point in trying to convert the fundies, they ain't interested and they're too stupid. So all we do is just present the facts to counter them. It's fun, keeps the brain active, and we learn stuff.
replaytime wrote:
I will admit I come here because I get bored and most times I think both sides are full of crap so I just join in the game to pass a little time and to have a little fun but there seem to be many here that not only take it seriously, but really think they are making a difference. That just makes me WTF! Really!
Since the interwebz is MASSIVE the difference we make is probably negligible. However some of us have had the occasional lurker pop up and thank us for demonstrating the disingenuousness of the creationist movement so they know now what the whole "debate" is REALLY all about. So even if we convince just one person, or even just make someone smile, then that's enough for me. Plus there's a couple of smart guys on here with PhD's who present useful info which can then be found by chance via a google search, often with links to the original science papers, so it may even be used as a reference by proxy every now and then.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#40 Jan 27, 2014
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
One thing I have learned here is that if God himself came down there are still many that would still believe God is a myth and a lie. Same as if science somehow proved there was not a God many would still think science is wrong and they would still believe in God.
Point being many are so set in there ways of either there is A God or there isn't a God that nothing will ever change their mind.
I'm sure THE ALMIGHTY could convince us if it REALLY wanted to...

Apparently it ain't interested.(shrug)

Why do you think that is?

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