Evolution Theory Facing Crisis

Evolution Theory Facing Crisis

There are 229 comments on the KKLA-FM Glendale story from Aug 18, 2014, titled Evolution Theory Facing Crisis. In it, KKLA-FM Glendale reports that:

"Bill Nye the Science Guy" wrapped up its twentieth anniversary year recently. Nye has done great work encouraging kids to pursue careers in the natural sciences, but has also in recent years become somewhat of a fundamentalist of secularism, particularly in his promotion of Darwinian evolution.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KKLA-FM Glendale.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#84 Aug 24, 2014
Judges 1:19 BTW

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#85 Aug 24, 2014
Christian wrote:
I happen to believe that the historical accounts and evidence that Archeologists have found is as much evidence for a God as your fossils are for evolution.
Fossils, on the other hand, are a mystery that evolution happens to explain better than any passage in the Bible can do. If it were just a few scattered bones, you might claim "the Flood did it". But its not. Its a nested hierarchy with exactly the characteristics of change that evolution both predicted and explains. Even better, if that hierarchy was violated, evolution would be falsified, and yet with millions of fossil specimens, that hierarchy has NEVER been violated.

For example there are NO mammal specimens in the lower half of the record of life on land. Not a single fossil of a creature with a 3 boned middle ear BEFORE the sequence of fossils that from 230-180 MYA show the gradual development of this ear anatomy, step by step. And after that, a gradual radiation into types more and more like modern forms over time until now. There are no horses, elephants, or apes even 50 million years ago. But there are creatures part of series from the most primitive mammals to these modern forms present then. And the same pattern holds for oak trees, ants, sparrows, you name it.

In fact if Biblical Creation made any useful predictions about the fossil record, it would be that all the species are there from the Creation and are gradually whittled away by extinction, with a very big extinction just 4500 years ago signalling the Flood. This is nothing like what we see.

You can have God. But you cannot justify continued literal belief in Bronze Age mythology, essentially their local and limited notions of God and creation.

Level 6

Since: Mar 12

Location hidden

#86 Aug 24, 2014
Christian wrote:
Consider the teachings of Christ. Believing in what He said and did and taught and that He is how God chose to show Himself to mankind so that we might not consider ourselves so high and mighty and more just in our " thinking" than God is.
I don't have to understand anything about God other than Jesus Christ To be a Christian.
Christ made it very simple for us to understand the true nature of God.
We don't even have to be perfect ( far from it), we just have to believe that He is God in human form and He is our example and our hope for a world without evil someday.
Believe what you wish. It is called freedom of choice or free will. We would not want to live in a country where we were not afforded the right to believe or not believe.
Do away with all the Christians and I'm afraid you will find yourself being forced to believe in something even you might find worse than being a " fundie."
Peace!
Socrates and Buddha were able to poke holes in any arrogant notions we might have, without claiming themselves to be God or the Son of God. Socrates, like Jesus, was also executed for saying such things. But that was in the relatively rational climate of Classical Greece, so instead of a Cult growing around him, a school of Philosophy leading to Plato and Aristotle did.

I strongly suspect Jesus did the same, and the whole mythology and claims came later by followers competing in the seething mess of cultish fashions and ideologies of the cosmopolitan Roman masses. Because its not essential to the message, no matter what you think, as Socrates and Buddha made clear. Jesus did not invent humility or kindness. Jesus did not have to be the "Son of God", a nonsensical notion from the start, for his message to make sense. The Golden Rule. The ability to forgive. Valuing humans before money. Loving your neighbour. All good lessons, whether you go to heaven or not. They make life more pleasant. Whatever is attributed to the man called Jesus, these things make sense.

I have no wish to do away with all the Christians. But I do wish some of them would grow up.

Since: Aug 14

London, UK

#87 Aug 25, 2014
Have time,

I will come to look at this issue and look forward to!
__________

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FREE SERVANT

United States

#88 Aug 25, 2014
It had to have been created by a miracle. A miracle is something which just comes into being and material elements arrange into forms which normally would take long periods of time to occur. Matter is the same age from the creation and the power that caused the elements to form in the beginning is all power to cause miracles to happen instantly.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#89 Aug 25, 2014
Chimney1 wrote:
<quoted text>
Socrates and Buddha were able to poke holes in any arrogant notions we might have, without claiming themselves to be God or the Son of God. Socrates, like Jesus, was also executed for saying such things. But that was in the relatively rational climate of Classical Greece, so instead of a Cult growing around him, a school of Philosophy leading to Plato and Aristotle did.
I strongly suspect Jesus did the same, and the whole mythology and claims came later by followers competing in the seething mess of cultish fashions and ideologies of the cosmopolitan Roman masses. Because its not essential to the message, no matter what you think, as Socrates and Buddha made clear. Jesus did not invent humility or kindness. Jesus did not have to be the "Son of God", a nonsensical notion from the start, for his message to make sense. The Golden Rule. The ability to forgive. Valuing humans before money. Loving your neighbour. All good lessons, whether you go to heaven or not. They make life more pleasant. Whatever is attributed to the man called Jesus, these things make sense.
I have no wish to do away with all the Christians. But I do wish some of them would grow up.
Why doesn't it make sense to you that God made the universe and the earth and now his Son has the power to make a New Heaven and New Earth? The Bible is about the disobedience of man and forgiveness for sins through the shed blood of Jesus so that we can inherit eternal life. Do you understand what the Gospel is?
FREE SERVANT

United States

#90 Aug 25, 2014
The Bible teaches that this universe and earth will pass away. The heavens will roll up and the elements will melt with heat.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#91 Aug 25, 2014
According to the scriptures, this heaven and earth had a beginning and it will have an ending. All the work of God is related to the cross of Christ, and this work of grace is why we are still here.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#92 Aug 25, 2014
Christian wrote:
Consider the teachings of Christ. Believing in what He said and did and taught and that He is how God chose to show Himself to mankind so that we might not consider ourselves so high and mighty and more just in our " thinking" than God is.
I don't have to understand anything about God other than Jesus Christ To be a Christian.
Christ made it very simple for us to understand the true nature of God.
We don't even have to be perfect ( far from it), we just have to believe that He is God in human form and He is our example and our hope for a world without evil someday.
Believe what you wish. It is called freedom of choice or free will. We would not want to live in a country where we were not afforded the right to believe or not believe.
Do away with all the Christians and I'm afraid you will find yourself being forced to believe in something even you might find worse than being a " fundie."
Peace!
But you don't really believe in free will, Oh, you pay lip service to it, but you don't actually believe in it. You seem to believe, and I am paraphrasing based on your comments, that freedom of religion means that not only are you free to believe as you wish, but that you are free to make other people believe as you wish. That's not freedom!

Doing away with Christians, or any other form of theists, isn't our goal. You assume that because it makes us the bad guys and you some sort of religious hero. No, our goal is much simpler. We would like you, and all the other theists, to stop forcing your beliefs on us. When you make claims that your particular version of a God took some action and refuse to allow real science from being taught, that is exactly what you are doing. Oh you can dress it up in nicer-sounding words, but that is exactly what you are doing.

You have zero evidence of any action by any deity. What you have is wishful thinking, but you have no actual evidence and yet you keep insisting your your set of beliefs are not only real, but that they should be taught in science class. We disagree and we have every bit of actual evidence supporting science and that your belief set is a set of allegorical stories. There is no evidence of Adam and Eve, there is no evidence of Noah and his Flood, there is no evidence ...well the list is pretty long.

Funny, how most Christians also believe your stories are just that stories and do not insist on your belief set being real science. Knock off marketing your belief set as science and you won't hear much from us. It will be less entertaining for us, because listening to folks who follow your particular narrow set of beliefs is wildly entertaining ... I mean really, giant rafts explaining biodiversity? I'll miss your incredible rationalizations. But I think education would be better off without your assertions in science class.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#93 Aug 25, 2014
Gillette wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, that's not what Jesus himself says in Matthew 25:31-46, in which those who perform selfless charitable good works are taken to eternal reward and those who FAIL to do such good works go off into everlasting punishment.
Not a word there about having the right set of beliefs about Jesus.
Again, ACTUAL WORDS OF JESUS!
He's not interested in the actual words, he prefers to cherry pick from some of the words, and then let's someone else tell his what it 'really' said. Gotta love biblical 'literalists' and so many other oxymorons!

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#94 Aug 25, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>Why doesn't it make sense to you that God made the universe and the earth and now his Son has the power to make a New Heaven and New Earth? The Bible is about the disobedience of man and forgiveness for sins through the shed blood of Jesus so that we can inherit eternal life. Do you understand what the Gospel is?
What makes your particular set of religious beliefs any more valid than any other? I'm not just talking about beliefs from hundreds and thousands of years ago, but also from the hundreds and thousands of religions that exist today. In my opinion, speaking religiously, the only difference between you and an ancient Greek praying to Zeus is ... well there really isn't any difference is there? Oh you can point to time, and a different version of a deity, but when you really look at it ... from a religion aspect, you are the same.
FREE SERVANT

United States

#95 Aug 25, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes your particular set of religious beliefs any more valid than any other? I'm not just talking about beliefs from hundreds and thousands of years ago, but also from the hundreds and thousands of religions that exist today. In my opinion, speaking religiously, the only difference between you and an ancient Greek praying to Zeus is ... well there really isn't any difference is there? Oh you can point to time, and a different version of a deity, but when you really look at it ... from a religion aspect, you are the same.
The symmetry of the Bible makes it the most talked about book in the world. If someone could just make this up it might be worth a short amount of time in discussions, but this book has stood the test of time and the Creation event makes more sense to rational people today than ever before.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#96 Aug 25, 2014
FREE SERVANT wrote:
<quoted text>The symmetry of the Bible makes it the most talked about book in the world. If someone could just make this up it might be worth a short amount of time in discussions, but this book has stood the test of time and the Creation event makes more sense to rational people today than ever before.
Aside from asking which Bible and which particular Creation story. How about you do something really unique and support your contention? I don't recall a single conversation about the Genesis Myth, or any other creation story, gaining ground with rational people. I can cite you many instances of irrational people using religion to push a very personal agenda ... just look at Pat Robertson and Ken Ham ... but few would consider them rational about their belief systems. So the ball is in your court, you made a categorical statement, now support it.

If you find some way to rationalize that, can you then tell my why no one has provided any actual evidence, other than a book, about your particular creation story? You do realize that if you are talking the Christian Bible, the story did not originate there and that it took well over 300 years for the creation story to be firmed up to something resembling the one you can read in King James today. Come on, you're up to bat.
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#97 Aug 25, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
Aside from asking which Bible and which particular Creation story. How about you do something really unique and support your contention? I don't recall a single conversation about the Genesis Myth, or any other creation story, gaining ground with rational people. I can cite you many instances of irrational people using religion to push a very personal agenda ... just look at Pat Robertson and Ken Ham ... but few would consider them rational about their belief systems. So the ball is in your court, you made a categorical statement, now support it.
If you find some way to rationalize that, can you then tell my why no one has provided any actual evidence, other than a book, about your particular creation story? You do realize that if you are talking the Christian Bible, the story did not originate there and that it took well over 300 years for the creation story to be firmed up to something resembling the one you can read in King James today. Come on, you're up to bat.
You say you are evolving as fast as you can. Would you say that There are human beings alive that are more evolved than you personally. Please give some evidence or proof would be even better. Yes or no and why.
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#98 Aug 25, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
Aside from asking which Bible and which particular Creation story. How about you do something really unique and support your contention? I don't recall a single conversation about the Genesis Myth, or any other creation story, gaining ground with rational people. I can cite you many instances of irrational people using religion to push a very personal agenda ... just look at Pat Robertson and Ken Ham ... but few would consider them rational about their belief systems. So the ball is in your court, you made a categorical statement, now support it.
If you find some way to rationalize that, can you then tell my why no one has provided any actual evidence, other than a book, about your particular creation story? You do realize that if you are talking the Christian Bible, the story did not originate there and that it took well over 300 years for the creation story to be firmed up to something resembling the one you can read in King James today. Come on, you're up to bat.
Considering the life span of Adam and his children, some of them would still have been alive several hundred years. I'm thinking Adam lived over nine hundred years and Methuselah died the year of the flood well over nine hundred years old. The story didn't have to be handed down from generation to generation, or made up by some irrational religious story teller.
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#99 Aug 25, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
What makes your particular set of religious beliefs any more valid than any other? I'm not just talking about beliefs from hundreds and thousands of years ago, but also from the hundreds and thousands of religions that exist today. In my opinion, speaking religiously, the only difference between you and an ancient Greek praying to Zeus is ... well there really isn't any difference is there? Oh you can point to time, and a different version of a deity, but when you really look at it ... from a religion aspect, you are the same.
Many Christians have allowed themselves to be martyred rather than denounce their faith in Christ. I know many other religions that also believe Jesus was a prophet of some sort, but are more than willing to "do the martyr ing" of those who believe Jesus was God. Is that enough difference for you?
Christian

Knoxville, TN

#100 Aug 25, 2014
TedHOhio wrote:
<quoted text>
But you don't really believe in free will, Oh, you pay lip service to it, but you don't actually believe in it. You seem to believe, and I am paraphrasing based on your comments, that freedom of religion means that not only are you free to believe as you wish, but that you are free to make other people believe as you wish. That's not freedom!
Doing away with Christians, or any other form of theists, isn't our goal. You assume that because it makes us the bad guys and you some sort of religious hero. No, our goal is much simpler. We would like you, and all the other theists, to stop forcing your beliefs on us. When you make claims that your particular version of a God took some action and refuse to allow real science from being taught, that is exactly what you are doing. Oh you can dress it up in nicer-sounding words, but that is exactly what you are doing.
You have zero evidence of any action by any deity. What you have is wishful thinking, but you have no actual evidence and yet you keep insisting your your set of beliefs are not only real, but that they should be taught in science class. We disagree and we have every bit of actual evidence supporting science and that your belief set is a set of allegorical stories. There is no evidence of Adam and Eve, there is no evidence of Noah and his Flood, there is no evidence ...well the list is pretty long.
Funny, how most Christians also believe your stories are just that stories and do not insist on your belief set being real science. Knock off marketing your belief set as science and you won't hear much from us. It will be less entertaining for us, because listening to folks who follow your particular narrow set of beliefs is wildly entertaining ... I mean really, giant rafts explaining biodiversity? I'll miss your incredible rationalizations. But I think education would be better off without your assertions in science class.
Wow. You are a self-righteous one. You tell me I don't understand the meaning of freedom and that you know better than I what I do and don't believe about the rights of others.
You do realize, don't you, that your rationalizations sound just as ridiculous to us don't you?
We don't rationalize life and God and creation and evolution the same way.
It has less to do with the mind and more to do with the spirit when rationalizing spiritual issues.
You probably don't believe you have a spirit, therefore you don't believe in spiritual discernment.
I don't believe it is moral to do scientific experimentation on my ancestors either. To each his own! Free will!
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#101 Aug 25, 2014
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
Considering the life span of Adam and his children, some of them would still have been alive several hundred years. I'm thinking Adam lived over nine hundred years and Methuselah died the year of the flood well over nine hundred years old. The story didn't have to be handed down from generation to generation, or made up by some irrational religious story teller.
I have the humble but compelling suggestion, when really thinking people can live 900 years, you need to call a psychiatrist as soon as possible. So we are supposed to accept and discuss this obviously insane caboodle?

Could you imagine us fancying ourself in a Alice in Wonderland kind of world with people ageing 500 years or older and growing 5 meter or taller? Good heavens (what's in a name), are we supposed to even take this unbelievable crap and idiocy into serious consideration? And then, pièce the résistance, putatively NOT coming from "some irrational religious story teller"?

WTF is wrong with you? Do you have your mental faculties still in proper working order?
TurkanaBoy

Since: May 14

the Earth Clod

#102 Aug 25, 2014
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
Many Christians have allowed themselves to be martyred rather than denounce their faith in Christ. I know many other religions that also believe Jesus was a prophet of some sort, but are more than willing to "do the martyr ing" of those who believe Jesus was God. Is that enough difference for you?
No, I think they are idiots.
The ones that flew the airplanes into the WTC also thought they were martyrs of Allah and looked forward to the Virgins awaiting them in Paradise.
When people start to think they are martyrs of ANY course, ALL alarm bells jingle and jangle in my head.

“I am evolving as fast as I can”

Since: Jan 08

Brooklyn, in Dayton OH now

#103 Aug 25, 2014
Christian wrote:
<quoted text>
You say you are evolving as fast as you can. Would you say that There are human beings alive that are more evolved than you personally. Please give some evidence or proof would be even better. Yes or no and why.
Actually all your comment proves is you really have no idea about evolution. You might try http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/ for a little Evolution 101. I know what I expect your answer to be ... so I am starting a pool ... let's hear it everyone ... how will Chris here respond to an invitation to actually learn something about evolution?

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