Global Warming Alarmists Chant 'Forge...

Global Warming Alarmists Chant 'Forget The Carbon, We Demand The Tax!'

There are 16 comments on the Forbes.com story from Feb 28, 2013, titled Global Warming Alarmists Chant 'Forget The Carbon, We Demand The Tax!'. In it, Forbes.com reports that:

View of a coal fired-power station in the town of Haimen, Guangdong Province in China.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Forbes.com.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#1 Feb 28, 2013
The linked Forbes article makes a few interesting points but is chock full of lies, distortions & outright falsehoods. The author, James Taylor (not the singer, obviously), is a "senior fellow for environmental policy at the Heartland Institute" - a contradiction in terms if ever there were one.

He certainly misunderstands the basics of climate science. CO2 lasts for centuries in the atmosphere. Although China is the #1 emitter today & US emissions are declining, the US is still much higher per capita, & the US is responsible for the most warming we've had so far.

What's telling is that the UK is the country that is 2nd-most responsible for current warming, despite its low emissions today. That's because the Industrial Revolution started there, & the CO2 they emitted centuries ago is still in the atmosphere, causing warming.

China has done some positive things, including investing heavily in clean energy. The writer is just wrong when he denies how much clean energy they're already using now. If nothing else, think about the Three Gorges Dam. They're also about to enact a carbon tax.

The Chinese know they have to clean up their environment & emissions. They also don't want Shanghai to be under water, or desertification to continue moving south all the way to Beijing, or for ShanDong (Confucius' birthplace) to be an island.

The US also needs a carbon tax, & soon. It should be stiff & rising over a decade or two. It also should be revenue-neutral, with money being returned to citizens. If properly structured, by itself it would stimulate green energy technology, eventually allowing the government to stop subsidizing it. I'd argue we also need government to continue nuclear research, since several new options are much safer, with MUCH safer & lower-grade waste.

As it is now, the government subsidizes the oil industry (the richest in the world) directly, to the tune of billions of dollars annually. But the indirect subsidies are much, much, MUCH larger.

How many trillion-dollar oil wars do we plan to fight in the Middle East? We don't even use that oil, & got none from Iraq.(Yes, I know it's fungible. So?) Why are we the only ones who have to pay to keep the Strait of Hormuz open?

The REAL crime is the lack of a carbon tax. Millions of people, & their governments, share the psychotic delusion that it's "free" to emit carbon into the atmosphere. It most assuredly is NOT free. It will be almost incalculably expensive in the future.

The cost of burning fossil fuels & emitting carbon into the atmosphere without restraint simply must be included with the price. It's the only way to have a market for energy that's truly free & reflective of reality. We've never had that market, but the survival of our civilization depends on having it.

It's a bit like the national debt. Emit carbon now, expecting people in the future to pay for it. Except that we do know, more or less, how much the national debt is. The costs of unrestrained carbon emissions could be much, much, MUCH larger.

Either that, or you think there'll be NO cost to having sea level be ~75 meters higher. Thinking that THAT will be cost-free is a psychotic hallucination.

Since: Jan 13

Location hidden

#2 Feb 28, 2013
Having trouble with posting; sorry if this is a repost.

The linked Forbes article makes a few interesting points but is chock full of lies, distortions & outright falsehoods. The author, James Taylor (not the singer, obviously), is a "senior fellow for environmental policy at the Heartland Institute" - a contradiction in terms if ever there were one.

He certainly misunderstands the basics of climate science. CO2 lasts for centuries in the atmosphere. Although China is the #1 emitter today & US emissions are declining, the US is still much higher per capita, & the US is responsible for the most warming we've had so far.

What's telling is that the UK is the country that is 2nd-most responsible for current warming, despite its low emissions today. That's because the Industrial Revolution started there, & the CO2 they emitted centuries ago is still in the atmosphere, causing warming.

China has done some positive things, including investing heavily in clean energy. The writer is just wrong when he denies how much clean energy they're already using now. If nothing else, think about the Three Gorges Dam. They're also about to enact a carbon tax.

The Chinese know they have to clean up their environment & emissions. They also don't want Shanghai to be under water, or desertification to continue moving south all the way to Beijing, or for ShanDong (Confucius' birthplace) to be an island.

The US also needs a carbon tax, & soon. It should be stiff & rising over a decade or two. It also should be revenue-neutral, with money being returned to citizens. If properly structured, by itself it would stimulate green energy technology, eventually allowing the government to stop subsidizing it. I'd argue we also need government to continue nuclear research, since several new options are much safer, with MUCH safer & lower-grade waste.

As it is now, the government subsidizes the oil industry (the richest in the world) directly, to the tune of billions of dollars annually. But the indirect subsidies are much, much, MUCH larger.

How many trillion-dollar oil wars do we plan to fight in the Middle East? We don't even use that oil, & got none from Iraq.(Yes, I know it's fungible. So?) Why are we the only ones who have to pay to keep the Strait of Hormuz open?

The REAL crime is the lack of a carbon tax. Millions of people, & their governments, share the psychotic delusion that it's "free" to emit carbon into the atmosphere. It most assuredly is NOT free. It will be almost incalculably expensive in the future.

The cost of burning fossil fuels & emitting carbon into the atmosphere without restraint simply must be included with the price. It's the only way to have a market for energy that's truly free & reflective of reality. We've never had that market, but the survival of our civilization depends on having it.

It's a bit like the national debt. Emit carbon now, expecting people in the future to pay for it. Except that we do know, more or less, how much the national debt is. The costs of unrestrained carbon emissions could be much, much, MUCH larger.

Either that, or you think there'll be NO cost to having sea level be ~75 meters higher. Thinking that THAT will be cost-free is a psychotic hallucination.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#3 Feb 28, 2013
It's always been about the money. If money can fix it, it's not the climate that is broken.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#4 Feb 28, 2013
HomoSapiensLaptopicus wrote:
Although China is the #1 emitter today & US emissions are declining, the US is still much higher per capita, & the US is responsible for the most warming we've had so far.
Those are the key distortion.

One is that US is reducing emissions significantly. The reductions are minor and mostly due to the economic recession. While there are bright spots (such as booming wind generation and higher fuel economy' they are generally offset by a few 'wasters' and by the decline in nuclear power while promoting coal power (with low efficiency but cheap construction).

The second it the comparison of emissions BY COUNTRY as if all countries were equal. i.e Lithuania should produce as much pollution as the USA?? What a pile of stupid crap. Emissions should be calculated PER CAPITA since a share of the 'common resources' that are DISTRIBUTED GLOBALLY (i.e. the air) should be owned on a per person basis.

But it works as spin and diversion. The real shame here is that Forbes has moved from being a NEWS magazine to being a propaganda arm of Heartland and the forces of darkness.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#5 Feb 28, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
It's always been about the money. If money can fix it, it's not the climate that is broken.
For YOU it is about the money. For you, EVERYTHING is about the money. That is why you lie about the facts.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#6 Feb 28, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
For YOU it is about the money. For you, EVERYTHING is about the money. That is why you lie about the facts.
When you've got nothing, throw a stink bomb, the smell lets everyone know you're still here.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#7 Feb 28, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
When you've got nothing, throw a stink bomb, the smell lets everyone know you're still here.
Nah, he's right, you are a liar, one of the worst.
Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#8 Feb 28, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, he's right, you are a liar, one of the worst.
When you've got nothing, throw a stink bomb, the smell lets everyone know you're still here.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#9 Feb 28, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, he's right, you are a liar, one of the worst.
I didn't say that he was a liar. I said that he avoided the facts and spoke only about his money. Or money in general. It is his real obsession. And it is clearly seen just by reading his posts.

Hard to argue with it so he posts nonsense like his 'stinkbomb' stuff. Meaningless and juvenile.

The FACT is that the problem with climate is caused by pollution (indirect effects of industry) and there is a clear path to reducing the problem by reducing the pollution.

His posts are meant to distract and I won't be distracted. Nor will 80% of the public (by the latest polls). Too much is riding on dealing EFFECTIVELY with the issue by increasing efficiency and using cleaner sources. Which, by the way, will not cost much. But it WILL change who thrives. The 'luddites with money' will lose as they try to hold onto the way things were, and the 'progressives' will win (some of them anyway) as they develop the 'new economy'. Good jobs, from developing new ways to make things with higher productivity and lower 'external costs' will win in the end.
Earthling

Spain

#10 Mar 2, 2013
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
... the forces of darkness.
What has mythology got to do with Glowbull warming, apart from the fact that it is a myth?

Are the four horsemen of the apocalypse waiting in the wings too?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#11 Mar 2, 2013
Earthling wrote:
<quoted text>What has mythology got to do with Glowbull warming, apart from the fact that it is a myth?
Are the four horsemen of the apocalypse waiting in the wings too?
The forces of darkness hate and despise knowledge, and would tear it down and put their stupidity and ignorance in its place. That's no myth. earthling and fun facts and tina anne demonstrate that day after day.
PHD

Cibolo, TX

#12 Mar 2, 2013
Well look at the kettle caaling in post #11. The commander of ignorance and stupidity.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#13 Mar 4, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
The forces of darkness hate and despise knowledge, and would tear it down and put their stupidity and ignorance in its place. That's no myth. earthling and fun facts and tina anne demonstrate that day after day.
More to the point I made..

“He that is of the opinion money will do everything may well be suspected of doing everything for money.”- Benjamin Franklin.

Be suspicious of those who boil down their 'arguments' to 'it'll cost me'..
SpaceBlues

United States

#14 Mar 4, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
For YOU it is about the money. For you, EVERYTHING is about the money. That is why you lie about the facts.
"you lie about the facts" = you are a liar.

LOL.
SpaceBlues

United States

#15 Mar 4, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
When you've got nothing, throw a stink bomb, the smell lets everyone know you're still here.
When you've got nothing, throw a stink bomb, the smell lets everyone know you're still here.

Hmmm.
SpaceBlues

United States

#16 Mar 4, 2013
Fair Game wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, he's right, you are a liar, one of the worst.
True.

Deniers are in a bad mood before they drop off like flies.

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