ACLU fights a little cross in the desert

jaime wrote:

<quoted text>
Nonetheless, they fled religious persecution and oppression of the kind their example must teach us to guard against. And they did not author the founding principles of this nation, including the Bill of Right, the Constitution, and the separation clause.
Also, let's remember that far too many of those people who followed the pilgrims sought to express "the Glory of God" by enslaving other human beings, or by sometimes successful attempts at genocide that included giving smallpox contaminated blankets to the "savages." I don't want some of these religious cuckoos I see, from the evangelical right to the Taliban having control over my life. The ACLU fights to see that doesn't happen while also fighting for the right of those people I consider crazy to freely believe as they choose.

First, there is no comparison between the Church of England and the myriad denominations of Christian churches and other religious and atheist groups in America. Jefferson grew up in Virginia in the home of a minister and saw how oppressive the Church of England was through its mandatory forced tax on the colonies was. American churches are supported by their own congregations and the government does not impose a tax on the citizens of this country to support or favor any religion. When Jefferson addressed the Danbury Baptists about their concerns the government was favoring one Christian denomination above the others, he employed his famous phrase, "separation of church and state" which has been twisted by the ACLU into something that never existed in the Constitution.
Secondly, people vote with their feet. You don't see people migrating in droves to non-Christian countries...it's always the other way around.

Dode Penrod

Long Beach, CA

Holy chit! Pub has given us all the words to Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Publius2

Dode Penrod wrote:

Holy chit! Pub has given us all the words to Glory, glory, hallelujah!

Here's another song that shows something of our nation's dependence on God that ACLU and secular revisionist types need reminded of periodically:
America (My Country,'Tis of Thee)
Samuel F. Smith, 1808-1895

My country,' tis of thee,
sweet land of liberty, of thee I sing;
land where my fathers died,
land of the pilgrims' pride,
from every mountainside let freedom ring!

2. My native country, thee,
land of the noble free, thy name I love;
I love thy rocks and rills,
thy woods and templed hills;
my heart with rapture thrills, like that above.

3. Let music swell the breeze,
and ring from all the trees sweet freedom's song;
let mortal tongues awake;
let all that breathe partake;
let rocks their silence break, the sound prolong.

4. Our fathers' God, to thee,
author of liberty, to thee we sing;
long may our land be bright
with freedom's holy light;
protect us by thy might, great God, our King.

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Dode Penrod

Long Beach, CA

Holy chit! Another song from Pub. Somebody should lock you up.

Publius2

Dode Penrod wrote:

Holy chit! Another song from Pub. Somebody should lock you up.

I'll just keep singing, That Old Time Religion, http://www.youtube.com/watch...

Brian Jones

Willows, CA

Prior to the American Revolution, the only English Bibles in the colonies were imported either from Europe or England. Publication of the Bible was regulated by the British government, and required a special license. Robert Aitken's Bible was the first known English-language Bible to be printed in America, and also the only Bible to receive Congressional approval. Aitken's Bible, sometimes referred to as "The Bible of the Revolution,"
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles...

Perhaps oneill you should know actual history of the separation of Church and State before you really make a fool out of your self.

This Country WAS founded on the teachings of the Bible and it was thought in schools until your generation in 1963 banned the Bible.
Now look at the USA? It has, well, gone to hell.
oneill, you are far from being intelligent at all when it comes to the founders of this Country.

Since: Oct 07

2,872

Bawlmer

been there wrote:

<quoted text>
I know all soldiers are not Christians, and where in my post did I assume that they were? I don't believe other faiths should be deinied a mermoiral, that is MY honest answer. I know Christians are not the only faith that die in car crashes, they could and have put up their own symbols, be it religious or not. I think you would be amazed that most of those crosses put up along side the road are not put up by what you would consider Christians.

In this instance ALL other faiths were denied the privilege of erecting their own memorial, so they COULD NOT have put up their own symbols. That's the whole point.

Since: Oct 07

2,872

Bawlmer

Matter Of Fact wrote:

The oft cited phrase "separation between church and
state" is found nowhere in the Constitution. This
phrase has been misused by many in this country to
mislead people into believing that the government
can have absolutely nothing to do with relgion. The
truth is the Constitution only prohibits the
establishment of religion through the Establishment
Clause of the First Amendment. Obviously, a cross
in the desert is not an establishment of a religion
by the government so let it be.

A liar such as yourself should understand that separation of church and state was deliberately intended. James Madison, the main author of the Constitution and Bill of Rights directly speaks in favor of the *total* separation of church and state. He speaks of the danger of religious intrusion into the affairs of the state. Separation is absolute FACT, as evidenced by Madison's words:

"Strongly guarded as is the separation between Religion & Govt in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history. " (Detached Memoranda)

"Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together" (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

"The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State" (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819)

Madison's statements trump your ignorant opinion.

Since: Oct 07

2,872

Bawlmer

Publius2 wrote:

I believe in the Glory of God and the advancement of the Christian Faith, don't you Jaime?

Not everybody does. This is America, not the Plymouth colony. There will be NO theocracy on my watch.

Since: Oct 07

2,872

Bawlmer

Brian Jones wrote:

Prior to the American Revolution, the only English Bibles in the colonies were imported either from Europe or England. Publication of the Bible was regulated by the British government, and required a special license. Robert Aitken's Bible was the first known English-language Bible to be printed in America, and also the only Bible to receive Congressional approval. Aitken's Bible, sometimes referred to as "The Bible of the Revolution,"
http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissuesArticles...
Perhaps oneill you should know actual history of the separation of Church and State before you really make a fool out of your self.
This Country WAS founded on the teachings of the Bible and it was thought in schools until your generation in 1963 banned the Bible.
Now look at the USA? It has, well, gone to hell.
oneill, you are far from being intelligent at all when it comes to the founders of this Country.

Looks like you are the fool: http://www.topix.net/forum/source/paradise-po...

Wallbuilders is a biased illegitimate reference.

Paradise Gal

Since: Jun 08

1,857

Paradise

ISP: Chico, CA

aveteran wrote:

<quoted text>
In this instance ALL other faiths were denied the privilege of erecting their own memorial, so they COULD NOT have put up their own symbols. That's the whole point.

That was my misunderstood point, between you and I, back when, in these threads. Thanks for pointing that out in your words. Even though I agree with you here, how many other religious faiths wanted to put up their symbols during the time of this erected symbol?
I am just asking a basic question.

Publius2

aveteran wrote:

<quoted text>
Not everybody does. This is America, not the Plymouth colony. There will be NO theocracy on my watch.

"“We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other”- John Adams
Christians aren't trying to establish a theocracy - so why do you try to make that an issue? Christians are quite happy with the Republican form of Constitutional government that our Founders gave us, and in that spirit we want to preserve it. The Founders understood that Christian morality was essential for both the preservation of liberty and the stability of law. They knew that if Americans ever abandoned the biblical standards of morality, there could be no fixed boundaries to maintain either liberty or law. Consequently, there would be no end to the possibilities of national evil. They saw that the future of the nation was dependent upon the vitality of religion and the exercise of biblical morality.

The New York State Legislature declared,“This is a Christian nation. Ninety-nine hundredths, if not a larger proportion, of our whole population, believe in the general doctrines of the Christian religion. Our Government depends … on that virtue that has its foundation in the morality of the Christian religion.”-

Fabioso

Crawfordville, FL

tom wrote:

The Anit-Christian Lunatics Union (ACLU)

http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com

LOLWUT?

been there

aveteran wrote:

<quoted text>
In this instance ALL other faiths were denied the privilege of erecting their own memorial, so they COULD NOT have put up their own symbols. That's the whole point.

So I do not disagree with your "whole point". Sorry you are all knotted up over a simple cross. Do you think all the crosses placed next to the highways should be removed? Jaime wouldn't answer me.

Publius2

aveteran wrote:

<quoted text>
Not everybody does. This is America, not the Plymouth colony. There will be NO theocracy on my watch.

"U.S. Soldiers Kick off Tour to Save 75-Year-Old War Memorial"
http://www.saveourmemorials.com/docs/091509_p...
The story of the memorial: http://www.donttearmedown.com/
The American Legion is fighting to keep the cross. Looks like aveteran stands against his own. I wonder if aveteran fit in with his fellow soldiers? He certainly isn't fitting in with the multitude of veterans trying to uphold the little cross in the desert.

Publius2

Fabioso wrote:

<quoted text>
http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com
LOLWUT?

"One Step Forward; Two Steps Back" - Lenin
"Sometimes Communists must take a few steps backwards and appear to be retreating from their goals in order to achieve them."

"I am for socialism, disarmament, and ultimately for abolishing the state itself as an instrument of violence and compulsion. I seek social ownership of property, the abolition of the propertied class… Communism is the goal." - Roger Baldwin, Founder of the ACLU.

The founder of the ACLU,

Publius2

aveteran wrote:

<quoted text>
Not everybody does. This is America, not the Plymouth colony. There will be NO theocracy on my watch.

Your watch? Just who do you think you are?

Publius2