It's the Darwin crowd that lacks the facts in evolution debate

I would like to respond to the letter 'Recent letter offered no examples of Darwinian disingenuousness,' . He responds to an article with, 'He says evolution is 'so riddled with holes,' yet fails to provide a ... Full Story

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#118998 Jun 30, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Your numbers put us in the ballpark of 5 trillion generations to achieve eukaryote, but you think that everything between there and human occurred in many generations less than that?
For a single celled animal, 5 trillion is a drop in the bucket.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#118999 Jun 30, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Early editing of the N.T. included insertions, deletions, rewording, and of course a number of copy errors.
Most of the last chapter of Mark is an insertion that was added long after the main text of that book. The earliest versions we have end after verse 8.
That does not change who Jesus was and is.

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#119000 Jun 30, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would it have been long dead? Religious texts are amazingly enduring. There are religious books that are 1500 years older than the oldest book of the O.T. that are still quite popular.
There is no logic in your assertion that they would have been long dead.
None like Jesus. The greatest of all religious prophets.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#119001 Jun 30, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
In a static environment, it's a number we have yet to conceive.
Then how do you know 50,000 isn't "a lot" if you don't know what the low end of "a lot" is?

Since: Apr 11

Location hidden

#119002 Jun 30, 2013
Dogen wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would it have been long dead? Religious texts are amazingly enduring. There are religious books that are 1500 years older than the oldest book of the O.T. that are still quite popular.
There is no logic in your assertion that they would have been long dead.
None like Jesus. The greatest prophet ever.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#119003 Jun 30, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
For a single celled animal, 5 trillion is a drop in the bucket.
Then why would it take 2 billion years? What happened to your higher math skills?

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#119004 Jun 30, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
I BELIEVE I referred to a believable explanation (actually I know I did), not whether people at a given time believed something was possible.
How would "they didn't believe it was possible" and "not believable" differ in meaning?

Where's the human genetic bottleneck that coincides with the flood dates? Oh, right...science is bullshit EXCEPT when you think it supports your Bible stories. Cherrypicking. Dishonest. EVERY TIME.
KAB

Oxford, NC

#119005 Jun 30, 2013
LowellGuy wrote:
<quoted text>
How would "they didn't believe it was possible" and "not believable" differ in meaning?
Where's the human genetic bottleneck that coincides with the flood dates? Oh, right...science is bullshit EXCEPT when you think it supports your Bible stories. Cherrypicking. Dishonest. EVERY TIME.
The expressions you offered don't differ in meaning, but then, classic you, neither of them are mine.

When you consider how human genetic bottleneck timings are determined, you'll be very close to the answer to your question.

“The strength of science is”

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#119006 Jun 30, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The expressions you offered don't differ in meaning, but then, classic you, neither of them are mine.
When you consider how human genetic bottleneck timings are determined, you'll be very close to the answer to your question.
So where is this bottleneck? It must exist right.

Either no answer or more dodging.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#119007 Jul 1, 2013
Charles Idemi wrote:
<quoted text> None like Jesus. The greatest of all religious prophets.
Yet, you have no verifiable evidence that your Jesus person ever existed.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#119008 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
Your numbers put us in the ballpark of 5 trillion generations to achieve eukaryote, but you think that everything between there and human occurred in many generations less than that?
Yes, because the architecture of a eukaryote cell, with its large nucleus and more genetic material for starters, provides a base on which greater elaboration can occur. Its no different from the analogous progress of civilisation, with slow beginnings and an acceleration of change once a level of complexity has been reached.

For example, once the arthropod and vertebrate basic blauplans were established based on repetitive segmentation of a base structure, the potential for elaboration increased dramatically on this base. And even now, the similarities between a primitive salamander and an advanced mammal are greater than the differences. The "endo-skeletal vertebrate" basic structure has proven to be remarkably versatile and evolvable. Likewise the basic insect plan.

Note too that only after eukaryotes do we see the innovation of sexual reproduction, which accelerates evolutionary change by allowing separate innovations to recombine. Now, how sexual reproduction arose is still a mystery though there are hypotheses. But we do know that once in place, it was a powerful accelerator of change.

Since: Mar 12

Dubai, UAE

#119009 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
You have not provided confirming data for any of them.
I provided links to haplotype analysis of mitochondria in humans months ago. Then you said I had not. Then I sent them again. Now you say I have not.

Sorry KAB, we are not going to get far if I provide what you request, you ignore it, and then demand it again.

Suffice to say now, that haplotype analysis has provided a comprehensive picture of human migration pattern over the last 50,000 years, and a flood at 4500 just does not fit into it anywhere. This analysis is further supported by archeological finds all over the world.

You recall our discussions of Neanderthal and Denisovans in the gene pool as well.

When multiple lines of evidence paint a clear picture and everything falls into place, but it takes multiple instances of special pleading and suspension of the known rules of reality to back your version of events up, then anybody with the slightest objectivity will adopt the hypothesis that finds an easy harmony with the facts. And that is just the human haplotype evidence.

Others have provided a lack of bottlenecks in other species. And the lack of geological evidence for a global flood. And Atacama, and the ice sheets, for which I did provide you links.

Time to accept that Noah is at best an allegorical tale, and at worst, merely another creation story no more real than the old Greek Titans. None of that falsifies God, but it does prove that Genesis is not to be taken literally.

“What, me worry?”

Since: Mar 09

I'm a racist caricature!

#119010 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The expressions you offered don't differ in meaning, but then, classic you, neither of them are mine.
When you consider how human genetic bottleneck timings are determined, you'll be very close to the answer to your question.
The same way cheetah and bison bottlenecks are determined. If the method is good enough for things you think support your Bible stories, it's good enough for things you think refute your Bible stories.
marksman11

Asheville, NC

#119011 Jul 1, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
As to your god, that's easy, your god is too human.
Duh! We were made in his image.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#119012 Jul 1, 2013
marksman11 wrote:
<quoted text>Duh! We were made in his image.
So then your god is flawed. Not much of a god, Zeus is perfect, and Cthulhu is more powerful than all of then and alien.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#119013 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the design which embodies the precursor content. The specific object, including all its parts, was produced directly from raw materials.
Dataless word salad.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#119014 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
The salient point was that intelligent beings made each, a key difference being that the birds don't create new designs.
No? Ever see bird nests?

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#119015 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't, but you are entitled to your opinion.
Yeah, you do. And it isn't only my opinion.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Seffner, FL

#119016 Jul 1, 2013
KAB wrote:
<quoted text>
A designer would not design it out of context.
Thank you for yet another dataless and useless assertion.
KAB

United States

#119017 Jul 1, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>So where is this bottleneck? It must exist right.
Either no answer or more dodging.
Yes, if the flood occurred then the bottleneck occurred. Foolproof detection is the challenge. If you think that's been accomplished then provide some confirming data. I would provide it but haven't found any.

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