Why your religion has nothing to do with abortion: One outraged Virginian's perspective

Sep 17, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Feministing

If you've been following the conservative assault on reproductive rights, then you might know that Virginia recently suffered a right-wing takeover that threatens to shut down almost every single abortion clinic in the state.

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“A person is a person no matter”

Since: Sep 07

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#81
Sep 28, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
"Conception" is a useless term, as it can mean either fertilization or implantation.
"Life" began millennia ago, and has been in continuum ever since.
You all make me laugh. Conception is a useless term eh?, Then why is it so often used? Because that is when a new life begins. It matters not that implantation has occurred, life began, and implantation is import for continued life, but not for its beginning. Life began long ago, but a single life begins anew and it ends when it dies, are you going to dispute that too?

“A person is a person no matter”

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#82
Sep 28, 2012
 

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a voter wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, pregnancy would begin at conception (when a fertilized egg has successfully implanted), otherwise, there would be no miscarriages. It's estimated up to 75% of conceptions are miscarried. There are many stages of development that aren't compatible with life. Many religious leaders give their definition to their congregation but it's still just an opinion. It's meant to clarify their position for their congregation.
Honestly, I think it's great that people have such loving feelings toward pregnancy and realize that people feel loss of that hope of a child with miscarriage. Where it's hard for me to exclude one religious definition for another is the idea of a soul. Are souls given to ectopic pregnancies or what about molar pregnancies that are human tissue but doesn't have a DNA sequencing that can create a person? "Life" is defined many ways by many different belief structures.
It is interesting that you are seperating human lifes beginnings with pregnancy, but you are far away from being factual. The fact is that a new human life begins at conception and conception begins before implantation. Souls are actually irrelevent in this discussion, unless you can prove when a soul enters a body, but I would like to hear what you have to say about a soul. My religion says that a soul exist before the body because My God knew me before he knitted me in my mothers womb.

“Blessed Be”

Since: Jun 07

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#83
Sep 28, 2012
 

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marysaidyes2life wrote:
<quoted text>You all make me laugh. Conception is a useless term eh?, Then why is it so often used? Because that is when a new life begins. It matters not that implantation has occurred, life began, and implantation is import for continued life, but not for its beginning. Life began long ago, but a single life begins anew and it ends when it dies, are you going to dispute that too?
Quite the two-step you've got going there.

Conceptions ALSO means implantation. Not just fertilization. As such, it's a useless term, because the one saying could mean EITHER point.

Why is it used? To cloud the issue, so that then you can claim it ONLY means fertilization. Also, because it sounds all "cuddly", unlike the real terms.

Life began milennia ago, and has been in continuum ever since. The sperm and ovum, the FIRST stage of human reproduction, are also alive.

Fertilization is the creation of a zygote. Implantation is the beginning of a pregnancy. That's why the proper terms are important, and why "conception" has no real place.
a voter

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#84
Oct 1, 2012
 

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marysaidyes2life wrote:
<quoted text>It is interesting that you are seperating human lifes beginnings with pregnancy, but you are far away from being factual. The fact is that a new human life begins at conception and conception begins before implantation. Souls are actually irrelevent in this discussion, unless you can prove when a soul enters a body, but I would like to hear what you have to say about a soul. My religion says that a soul exist before the body because My God knew me before he knitted me in my mothers womb.
No one actually knows when ensoulment happens. Some religions speculate 40 days, some after the first trimester, some say quickening, some consider ensoulment to be taking the breath of life, the religious doctrine the individual clings to is most likely the take they'll have on it. Can we really expect a person to use our own personal religious definition to make decisions about their lives?
Again, Jehovah's witnesses don't believe in blood transfusions, how many would a religious law passed on their belief kill? Abortion is not pretty, abortion for convenience rubs me the wrong way but I would still not want laws enacted that would keep a safe, legal abortion out of the hands of woman, especially when her life may depend on it. If you keep it out of the hands of people who need it, will just make sure anyone with a dangerous pregnancy will die, possibly leaving children Motherless and making Husbands into Widowers.
Personally, I am not sure the exact moment but I am not sure why a fertilized ovum would be ensouled at fertilization when so many won't ever make through the processes of implantation and through those first few months when a high percentage of embryos undergo a spontaneous abortion naturally. That doesn't make sense to me as God knows the plan set for every person. Perhaps sometimes, God uses miscarriages and abortion to make people appreciate their offspring when they do have them or perhaps it's just how life happens. God works in mysterious way. Ensoulment is but another mystery I assume will be revealed.
I think Bitner is correct in the conception issue being neither here nor there. If a pregnancy doesn't occur there is no potential for a person to be born and there would be no thought of abortion.
Orangelion

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#85
Oct 4, 2012
 

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Britney is willing to kill her child rather than risk her own health, has she ever chosen to have a child? Maybe she is too selfish for it.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#86
Oct 4, 2012
 

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marysaidyes2life wrote:
<quoted text> My religion says that a soul exist before the body because My God knew me before he knitted me in my mothers womb.
If that be true then please explain "free will".

It appears that "your" god does not give free will to women being that "he" has "his" plans and "she" is to follow through with no choice, unless of course "he" decides to change "his" plan through miscarriage.
Ocean56

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#87
Oct 4, 2012
 

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Orangelion wrote:
Britney is willing to kill her child rather than risk her own health, has she ever chosen to have a child? Maybe she is too selfish for it.
Who is "Britney?"

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#88
Oct 4, 2012
 

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Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is "Britney?"
I was wondering the same. Interesting how people pop in and spew something nonsensical.
Orangelion

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#89
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
"Conception" is a useless term, as it can mean either fertilization or implantation.
"Life" began millennia ago, and has been in continuum ever since.
Britney was obviously on this thread.

It is only a page earlier that she was here before.

“Blessed Be”

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#90
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Orangelion wrote:
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Britney was obviously on this thread.
It is only a page earlier that she was here before.
What are you babbling about?

“...sigh”

Since: Nov 09

Smithtown, NY

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#91
Oct 5, 2012
 
Bitner wrote:
<quoted text>
What are you babbling about?
I just went back over all of the pages on this thread. No sign of a "Britney" anywhere.

The poor thing is confused.

Too funny.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#92
Oct 5, 2012
 

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Orangelion wrote:
<quoted text>
Britney was obviously on this thread.
It is only a page earlier that she was here before.
Thank you for reporting in from a pub somewhere in the UK.

“A person is a person no matter”

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#93
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
If that be true then please explain "free will".
It appears that "your" god does not give free will to women being that "he" has "his" plans and "she" is to follow through with no choice, unless of course "he" decides to change "his" plan through miscarriage.
of course there is free will, even to women who are pregnant. That is why God hasn't stepped in to stop abortion. That is why he doesn't step in to stop wars. That is why He doesn't step in to stop senseless murders. Free will is still intact. Because God doesn't step in does not mean that things are not wrong. In fact they may be quite wrong and they very clearly are.
Orangelion

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#94
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Bitner wrote:
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What are you babbling about?
I meant bitner not britney lol.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#95
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Orangelion wrote:
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I meant bitner not britney lol.
Thank you for that report!

Thank you even more for sobering up!:)

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#96
Oct 6, 2012
 

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marysaidyes2life wrote:
<quoted text>of course there is free will, even to women who are pregnant. That is why God hasn't stepped in to stop abortion. That is why he doesn't step in to stop wars. That is why He doesn't step in to stop senseless murders. Free will is still intact. Because God doesn't step in does not mean that things are not wrong. In fact they may be quite wrong and they very clearly are.
But of course you wish to put an end to free will for women. Even women who have been raped and become pregnant should have no choice according to you and the gang in Rome. Sick.

“Blessed Be”

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#97
Oct 6, 2012
 

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Orangelion wrote:
Britney is willing to kill her child rather than risk her own health, has she ever chosen to have a child? Maybe she is too selfish for it.
"Britney", huh? LOL, you're an idiot.

And, you lie, as I said nothing about killing a child.

Yes, a year ago, when it was still possible for me to get pregnant, I said that in the extremely unlikely event I did, at my age and with the risk to my health, I'd have an abortion

I have, in fact, CHOSEN to continue all three of my pregnancies, INCLUDING the one that was unplanned.

You just made an ASS out of yourself with your ASSumption. Congrats.

“A person is a person no matter”

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Oct 6, 2012
 

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Morgana 9 wrote:
<quoted text>
But of course you wish to put an end to free will for women. Even women who have been raped and become pregnant should have no choice according to you and the gang in Rome. Sick.
simply untrue. Just as murder is illegal I would like to see the murder of unborn children be illegal.

“And the Horse You Rode in On”

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#99
Oct 6, 2012
 

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marysaidyes2life wrote:
<quoted text>simply untrue. Just as murder is illegal I would like to see the murder of unborn children be illegal.
You would like to see women bear the brunt of a crime committed against them along with encouraging forced pro creation. You are pro control of women.

“Shoot for the stars”

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#100
Oct 6, 2012
 

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marysaidyes2life wrote:
<quoted text>simply untrue. Just as murder is illegal I would like to see the murder of unborn children be illegal.
If you don't like it then don't have one, but imposing your belief on others is wrong unless you accept the responsibility for all those babies, which we know you won't.

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